Preterism, both full & partial, are false.
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Bob_1000
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The type of cloud that Jesus returns in is given in Jude. It's the same cloud that Hebrews talked about... the Old Testament believers in Christ that were raised with him
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
I think the clouds are irrelevant in the discussion of preterism because whether it was a cloud of witnesses or whether it was a water vapor cloud has no bearing on the timing. The timing was when redemption came.
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Well, 'those things' haven't started yet. the things that HAVE occurred or started are not the eschatological events Your KJV says:
Matt. 24:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Now all this is going on now, but there are a few peoples who haven't yet heard the Gospel.
Now, Jesus went on to speak of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. That has NOT yet occurred.
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When comes to many of the views of eschatology, I'm pretty sure I won't know for sure in my present lifetime. I do know that I've been hearing the trib, the rap, the anti etc are right around the corner for the last 50 years.
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claninja
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all Christians are partial preterists. If you answer yes to any of the following questions, you are, in fact, a partial preterist.
1.) was the Holy Spirit poured out In The last days?
Acts 2:17 In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
2.) did Christ appear at the consummation of the ages to put away sin by his death?
Hebrews 9:26 But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself
3.) was the temple destroyed in 70ad?
Luke 21:6 As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
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- May 19, 2018
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End times experts are like grains of sand on a beach. There are a few 'expert prophets' on these very forums!
I myself just believe what Jesus said in plain language....
'This generation'...
Yep, not 2,000 years away! If it was 2,000 years away from the time of Jesus, He would have said so.
I myself just believe what Jesus said in plain language....
'This generation'...
Yep, not 2,000 years away! If it was 2,000 years away from the time of Jesus, He would have said so.
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Bob_1000
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Typical futurist argument... ignore the plainest most straight forward text and then post a lot of verses that you THINK over write the plain most straight forward text.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Everything in those verses has already happened. Some how you think YOU is the "you" in verse 9. "You" is the people Jesus was standing in front of.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
^ That is not YOU, that was the disicples.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
^ That was not YOU, you are not one of the 12 discilples. And again I say, you IGNORE the plain easy to understand verses like Mat 24:9 and focus on verses that you don't understand like the abomination of desolation. The abomination that left Jerusalem desolate was the Jews murdering Jesus.
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Daniel spoke of the abomination of desolation, so we know what it'll be.
Daniel's beasts included a billy goat that knocked down & trampled the ram that represented the Medo-Persian empire. That goat had one large horn, which was broken off, & four more lesser horns arose in its place. The goat represented Alexander the Great's empire, & after his death, that empire was divided among his 4 generals, Lysander, Antigonus, Ptolemy, & Seleucus. Scripturally, Lysander & Antigonus faded into history, but Ptolemy's kingdom, featuring Egypt, & Seleucus' kingdom, featuring Syria & Judea, were written about by Daniel. They fought several wars over more than a hundred years, and along the way, a Seleucid king called Antiochus Epiphanes entered the temple in Jerusalem, set up a statue of Zeus in it, sacrificed a pig on the altar, & appointed his own priests. This led to such a massive Jewish revolt that Antiochus was deposed. And Jesus said, in Matt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Jesus knew His words would be written down for later generations to read. And the AOD did NOT occur in the old temple before it was destroyed. So, a new temple will hafta be built in Jerusalem for the AOD to occur in.
Paul mentions the event in 2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
And again in Rev. 13. So plainly, this event is future, & will be committed by the beast/antichrist. Differences between his & Antiochus' AOD will be the beast will set up a statue of himself, which the false prophet will supernaturally cause to speak, he will cause all sacrifices in it to cease, and will declare himself to be God. this is all set forth in Scripture and MUST occur exactly, to-the-letter.
Daniel's beasts included a billy goat that knocked down & trampled the ram that represented the Medo-Persian empire. That goat had one large horn, which was broken off, & four more lesser horns arose in its place. The goat represented Alexander the Great's empire, & after his death, that empire was divided among his 4 generals, Lysander, Antigonus, Ptolemy, & Seleucus. Scripturally, Lysander & Antigonus faded into history, but Ptolemy's kingdom, featuring Egypt, & Seleucus' kingdom, featuring Syria & Judea, were written about by Daniel. They fought several wars over more than a hundred years, and along the way, a Seleucid king called Antiochus Epiphanes entered the temple in Jerusalem, set up a statue of Zeus in it, sacrificed a pig on the altar, & appointed his own priests. This led to such a massive Jewish revolt that Antiochus was deposed. And Jesus said, in Matt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Jesus knew His words would be written down for later generations to read. And the AOD did NOT occur in the old temple before it was destroyed. So, a new temple will hafta be built in Jerusalem for the AOD to occur in.
Paul mentions the event in 2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
And again in Rev. 13. So plainly, this event is future, & will be committed by the beast/antichrist. Differences between his & Antiochus' AOD will be the beast will set up a statue of himself, which the false prophet will supernaturally cause to speak, he will cause all sacrifices in it to cease, and will declare himself to be God. this is all set forth in Scripture and MUST occur exactly, to-the-letter.
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Yes, to those peoples known to the apostles. There was some 3/4 of the world they didn't know about.
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- Oct 7, 2018
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Thank you for the warm welcome! If you care to name a few prophesied events I can clarify. Before you start, I do want to make you aware that a full Preterist , someone who believes Jesus Christ of Nazareth already came, is somewhat rare and I am not one of them. So you can leave that out of your list.
Blessings
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You entirely forgot, or purposely ignored, Jesus' words,"whoso readeth, let him understand". Jesus knew all His words would be written for future generations to read.
And you ignored Jesus' saying that the AOD was spoken of by Daniel the prophet. And we know the events of that AOD by Antiochus Epiphanes.
NEXT PITCH!
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OK, please tell us why you think the great trib has already occurred. Remember, it's to be worldwide, and some of its events are set forth in Rev. 16.
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Bob_1000
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There you go again, IGNORE the context of the verses because you don't like what it says. This is you in a nutshell and all futurist - "Those words can't be directed to the disciples because that doesn't fit MY VIEW of the end times. So what those verses REALLY MEAN is that Jesus knew people in the future would be reading this and since I WANT everything to be future he couldn't have meant what He ACTUALLY said."
This is not a theology debate this a YOUR OPINION debate and you will always be right because we're debating YOUR belief sytsem.
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So it’s probably best to stick to biblical language. That is, if accuracy is really our intent. Scripture interprets scripture, not newspapers or our pet theologies.
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But then there's the reality of the limits of 1st-century knowledge. God said knowledge will greatly increase.
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