Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

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Der Alte

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What I meant is that "hell" is not mentioned in any of the Bible verses having to do with the Creation of the Cosmos, either in whole or in part. What follows is that God's Creation is a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell, with us as a contested prize to be fought over by both sides. Do you see how that dualism encroaches on God's absolute Sovereignty?
God.
Cosmos.
Earth.
Man.
Animals & plants.
What's not to like?
What's not to like, indeed. Please take note none of this can be attributed to Augustine, Justinian, Dante or any Christian scholars..
…..Concerning only the existence of a Jewish belief in hell not the validity of the historical faith, beliefs and practices of the ancient Jews, below are quotes from three credible Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been refuted.
…..According to these three sources, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, which are translated Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not refute anything in the following post.
[1]1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[Note, “soon” in this passage would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​
[Note: this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. And at least 14 centuries before Dante'. DA]
”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
[3]pre-Christianity Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
 
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What's not to like, indeed. Please take note none of this can be attributed to Augustine, Justinian, Dante or any Christian scholars..
…..Concerning only the existence of a Jewish belief in hell not the validity of the historical faith, beliefs and practices of the ancient Jews, below are quotes from three credible Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been refuted.
…..According to these three sources, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, which are translated Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not refute anything in the following post.
[1]1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[Note, “soon” in this passage would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​
[Note: this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. And at least 14 centuries before Dante'. DA]
”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
[3]pre-Christianity Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.


Why don't you use your own words to answer the question, "Christian Universalism. What's not to like?" What do you, Der Alte, dislike about the concept?​
 
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Der Alte

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Why don't you use your own words to answer the question, "Christian Universalism. What's not to like?" What do you, Der Alte, dislike about the concept?
Because I am not interested in your opinion, which OBTW cannot be backed up with any direct scripture, and I am sure you are not interested my opinion. All these question are not because anyone is really looking for answers they are only "gotcha" questions which the "Hell no crowd" uses trying to trip up the person being questioned.
I post scripture to refute UR.
 
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Ceallaigh

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What's not to like, indeed. Please take note none of this can be attributed to Augustine, Justinian, Dante or any Christian scholars..
…..Concerning only the existence of a Jewish belief in hell not the validity of the historical faith, beliefs and practices of the ancient Jews, below are quotes from three credible Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been refuted.
…..According to these three sources, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, which are translated Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not refute anything in the following post.

Are these three references the only sources in existence regarding what Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, believed about hell?

[1]1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[Note, “soon” in this passage would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]
[Note: this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. And at least 14 centuries before Dante'. DA]
”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.

All of the references here (except for the ones in blue) are not readily identifiable. So an extrabiblical hodgepodge of snippets from so far unknown sources wrapped around Isaiah 14:9-10, Isaiah 33:11 and the apocryphal Enoch and Judith.

If this hasn't been refuted, probably the main reason for that is because it's mostly jumbled snippets from several indefinable sources in a format that's difficult to read.

[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).

That's all well known by those familiar with the subject.

In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf

Okay, who came up with that part and when?

[3]pre-Christianity Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.

Since this refers to the followers of Jesus, it was obviously written either during the three years of Jesus' ministry or more likely after. So it wouldn't have been anything Jesus was referencing when he talked about Gehenna or anything the Jews would be all that familiar with when Jesus was teaching since it would have been so new.

So in conclusion:

Source 1 is pretty much indefinable.

Source 2 is the well known Biblical history of the valley of Hinnom with an attached conclusion from an undefined undated source.

Source 3 seems most likely a distorted view by Jews who rejected Jesus, written after his ministry.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Because I am not interested in your opinion, which OBTW cannot be backed up with any direct scripture, and I am sure you are not interested my opinion. All these question are not because anyone is really looking for answers they are only "gotcha" questions which the "Hell no crowd" uses trying to trip up the person being questioned.
I post scripture to refute UR.

It's just one simple question to which you're coming up with a lot of excuses to avoid giving an honest straightforward answer to.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Because I am not interested in your opinion, which OBTW cannot be backed up with any direct scripture, and I am sure you are not interested my opinion. All these question are not because anyone is really looking for answers they are only "gotcha" questions which the "Hell no crowd" uses trying to trip up the person being questioned.
I post scripture to refute UR.

Now that is the very best observation I have seen on this thread!!! Bar none!
 
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OTOH, I post Scripture to refute "hell" and ECT. If they do not exist...what's not to like?

What's not to like????

Universalism is unbiblical and should be rejected as it creates a false concept of the nature of God and it is a direct attack on the gospel of Jesus Christ.

#1.
Universalism minimizes the effects of sin on mankind and the eternal consequences of sin. If all people will eventually end up in Heaven then it means that people are no longer accountable to God for their sins.
The Bible however clearly tells us that sin has consequences.
Romans 6:23 says that......
“the wages of sin is death”.

#2.
If the doctrine of Universalism were true, then it would mean that Jesus Christ would not have to come and be crucified on the cross for the sins of mankind. It presumes that Christ’s finished work on the cross is not relevant.
Universalism therefore attacks the gospel and the purpose of why Christ came to die for our sins.
Isiah 53:5 says.......
“But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was crushed for our iniquities; upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.”

#3.
Universalists fall into the deception of believing that God’s love and grace tolerates sin and that ultimately God’s love will override the consequence of sin.
However, John 3:16 says.......
“For God so loved the world, that He gave his only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”
 
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Der Alte

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OTOH, I post Scripture to refute "hell" and ECT. If they do not exist...what's not to like?
When are you going to start doing that? Here is what Jesus said about the fate of the unrighteous. Refute it.
Jesus taught e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell [Γέεννα/gehenna] where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3 times Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell.
In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..how much sorer punishment,””Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord,””It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” these certainly do not sound like everyone will be saved, no matter what.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He intended to say eternal death, in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.
….The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, see Acts of the apostles 23:8. They knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it was permanent and often it did not involve punishment.
When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” the Sadducees would not have understood it as simply death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Re: Matt 25:46 concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,
“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If that Jewish teaching was wrong, why wouldn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs in “hell”?
"The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity"[/i] (Judith xvi. 17). [see Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna]​
 
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What's not to like????

Universalism is unbiblical and should be rejected as it creates a false concept of the nature of God and it is a direct attack on the gospel of Jesus Christ.

#1.
Universalism minimizes the effects of sin on mankind and the eternal consequences of sin. If all people will eventually end up in Heaven then it means that people are no longer accountable to God for their sins.
The Bible however clearly tells us that sin has consequences.
Romans 6:23 says that......
“the wages of sin is death”.

Weren't people accountable for their sins throughout the Old Testament, even though there was virtually no mention of hell? And can't hell be awful without it being eternal?

#2.
If the doctrine of Universalism were true, then it would mean that Jesus Christ would not have to come and be crucified on the cross for the sins of mankind. It presumes that Christ’s finished work on the cross is not relevant.
Universalism therefore attacks the gospel and the purpose of why Christ came to die for our sins.
Isiah 53:5 says.......
“But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was crushed for our iniquities; upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.”

Universal salvation couldn't exist without Christ’s finished work on the cross. The only difference in the UR belief is that Christ's salvation is unlimited.

#3.
Universalists fall into the deception of believing that God’s love and grace tolerates sin and that ultimately God’s love will override the consequence of sin.
However, John 3:16 says.......
“For God so loved the world, that He gave his only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”

Hasn't the power of the love of God overridden the consequence of sin for you and I? Then why not the rest of the world that God loves?

Personally I feel I'm much better off being forgiven now, than the idea of having to go through hell before receiving forgiveness. If I totally believed in UR, I wouldn't consider it a safety net. I'd still be just as terrified of hell.
 
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Der Alte

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MMXX said:
* * * Universal salvation couldn't exist without Christ’s finished work on the cross. The only difference in the UR belief is that Christ's salvation is unlimited

If that is true it should not be a problem for you to quote one verse, 2 or more would be better, where the Father, Himself or Jesus, Himself, speaking says all mankind will be saved, no matter what, even after death, or words to that effect.
 
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Ceallaigh

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When are you going to start doing that? Here is what Jesus said about the fate of the unrighteous. Refute it.
Jesus taught e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41

Considering that follows Jesus saying a simple act of charity will be rewarded with eternal life, how literal is it?

• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"

That could be translated as age long corrective punishment.

• "the fire of hell [Γέεννα/gehenna] where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3 times Mark 9:43-48"

That's originally found in Isaiah 66:24 in regard to Israel being destroyed by Babylon, so it seems possible Jesus repeated it in regard to Israel being destroyed by Rome.

• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50

Could be another national judgement against Israel comparable to Ezekiel 22:17-22.

• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6

How does drowned in water turn into tormented in fiery hell forever?

• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23

Where is eternal torment in hell mentioned in that verse?

• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24

Where is eternal torment in hell mentioned in that verse?

• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12

Where is eternal torment in hell mentioned in that verse?

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell.
In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..how much sorer punishment,””Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord,””It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” these certainly do not sound like everyone will be saved, no matter what.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He intended to say eternal death, in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.
….The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, see Acts of the apostles 23:8. They knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it was permanent and often it did not involve punishment.
When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” the Sadducees would not have understood it as simply death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Re: Matt 25:46 concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,
“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If that Jewish teaching was wrong, why wouldn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs in “hell”?
"The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity"[/i] (Judith xvi. 17). [see Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna]

This part is too crammed together and I don't feel like putting it in order right now. Maybe later.
 
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Lazarus Short

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What's not to like????

Universalism is unbiblical and should be rejected as it creates a false concept of the nature of God and it is a direct attack on the gospel of Jesus Christ.

#1.
Universalism minimizes the effects of sin on mankind and the eternal consequences of sin. If all people will eventually end up in Heaven then it means that people are no longer accountable to God for their sins.
The Bible however clearly tells us that sin has consequences.
Romans 6:23 says that......
“the wages of sin is death”.

#2.
If the doctrine of Universalism were true, then it would mean that Jesus Christ would not have to come and be crucified on the cross for the sins of mankind. It presumes that Christ’s finished work on the cross is not relevant.
Universalism therefore attacks the gospel and the purpose of why Christ came to die for our sins.
Isiah 53:5 says.......
“But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was crushed for our iniquities; upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.”

#3.
Universalists fall into the deception of believing that God’s love and grace tolerates sin and that ultimately God’s love will override the consequence of sin.
However, John 3:16 says.......
“For God so loved the world, that He gave his only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”

Universalism unbiblical? I found otherwise in my KJV.

"...creates a false concept of the nature of God...". Oh? I thought God was love. It is the ECT God who is not love.

"...a direct attack on the gospel of Jesus Christ." It is the bad news of ECT ("You're all sinners and you are going to Hell!") that attacks the gospel of Jesus the Christ, Who boasted that He makes ALL things new.

#1 Of course we are all accountable to God for our sins - that is what the Lake of Fire is for, to burn away our dross, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble.

#2 UR is founded on the death and resurrection of Jesus - those events made the salvation of all possible.

#3 God does not tolerate sin, but deals with it in love in the Lake of Fire, a torment at first but it purifies sinners and makes them fit for the Kingdom.

Your whole post is a misunderstanding of UR. Check it out:

we believe the Bible, properly translated

we believe in God...and the Son...and the Holy Spirit

we believe in the complete victory of God over His adversaries, including the last one, Death.

What's not to like?
 
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Ceallaigh

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Universal salvation couldn't exist without Christ’s finished work on the cross. The only difference in the UR belief is that Christ's salvation is unlimited.

If that is true it should not be a problem for you to quote one verse, 2 or more would be better, where the Father, Himself or Jesus, Himself, speaking says all mankind will be saved, no matter what, even after death, or words to that effect.

I don't see what that really has to do with what I said above. And just because I explain UR ideas as I understand them, that doesn't mean I have to prove them. However, perhaps I'll give it a shot anyways. Give me some time to see what, if anything, can be worked out.
 
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