What are a few reasons why Christ died upon the cross? (Have a few answers, but would like input).

Clare73

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The Church is NOT the New Jerusalem.That is the new Kingdom of God that replaces this world where only the worthy are invited as guests. Christianity got pretty messed up when it tried to eliminate the Gospel of the Kingdom and make it about self just as the Church had done in teaming up with God's adversary, the world of man. The institutional church is a government of man just like all the other institutions it was built upon. The Kingdom and especially the New Jerusalem are built upon the governance of God. The institutional church is a worldly idol built using the image of God as a cover.
Have you read the NT?

Is the Lamb of God Jesus Christ? Yes.

Is the Church the wife/bride of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God? Yes.

Is the New Jerusalem the bride of the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ)? Yes.

Then the New Jerusalem has to be the Church, who is the bride/wife of Jesus Christ.
 
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timothyu

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Is the Lamb of God Jesus Christ? Yes.

Is the Church the wife/bride of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God? Yes.

Is the New Jerusalem the bride of the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ)? Yes.

Is the Lamb of God Jesus Christ? Yes.
Agreed
Is the Church the wife/bride of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God? Yes.
Nope.. human doctrine
Is the New Jerusalem the bride of the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ)? Yes.
Agreed

Then the New Jerusalem has to be the Church, who is the bride/wife of Jesus Christ.
Only if you twist scripture to mean what you want. You used human reasoning, I used scripture. But this correction is off topic
 
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Clare73

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Is the Lamb of God Jesus Christ? Yes.
Agreed

Is the Church the wife/bride of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God? Yes.
Nope.. human doctrine
Have you read Ephesians 5:31-32?!!

The Church is the wife, and therefore, the body of Christ in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union!
Is the New Jerusalem the bride of the Lamb of God (Jesus Christ)? Yes.
Agreed
Then the New Jerusalem has to be the Church.

Only if you twist scripture to mean what you want. You used human reasoning, I used scripture. But this correction is off topic
And because the church is the wife/bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:31-32), therefore, according to

Transitive Law: If A = B, and B = C, then A = C, then

If New Jerusalem = bride of the Lamb of God/Jesus Christ, and

bride of Jesus Christ/Lamb of God = the Church, then

the New Jerusalem = the Church.

Yours is not orthodox Christianity.
 
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timothyu

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See my response, post #43, above.
Cleaving with a wife is of the flesh. Jesus cleaved in the spirit. There is no fleshy bride nor no fleshy church. Like leaving home we leave all fleshy things behind. That was the point being made, not some engagement party. Besides, preparing as a bride takes works. Do you believe in works to attain a goal? Now how do you account for the description in Rev 21?
 
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Clare73

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Cleaving with a wife is of the flesh. Jesus cleaved in the spirit.
There is no fleshy bride nor no fleshy church. Besides, preparing as a bride takes works. Do you believe in works to attain a goal?
You simply do not believe Ephesians 5:31-32.

Like I said, yours is not orthodox Christianity.
 
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Yes I'm familiar with the concept. Isn't it interesting that although scripture is deemed infallible, the doctrines of man are not.

I can say the same for you if you believe the Old Covenant applies to the church. Do you follow all 613 laws of Moses?
 
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bling

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You deny Hebrews 9:22 in what it says. Yes, God forgives sin, but He cannot do so if there was no atonement for their sins (Which was done by Jesus Christ). It says without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Meaning, God could not forgive us our sins without Jesus dying on the cross for our sins.

I believe Hebrews 9:22 in what it says.
I believe Hebrews 9:22 but the problem is not with God ability and in need of Blood to forgive, but in man’s need to realize and know he has been cleansed. The people themselves were outwardly cleansed with blood. Everything that comes in contact with the sin offering must be cleansed with blood, but it does not have to be the blood of the offering itself, like in the case in Lev. 5 where a bag of flour which has no blood could be the sin offering on an alter drenched in blood.

I am not saying: “Blood is not needed in the process of forgiveness”, but God is not the one needing it (God is not in the need of anything), but we need the blood for our cleansing.

It is easy to see our need for the blood in accepting God’s forgiveness, but what need do you see God having?

We came go through an understanding of forgiveness since it is a two-way transaction and not just one sided. What part do you see man playing?

I said a lot of stuff is this all you are having issue with?

Note: Please keep in mind that I believe God was able to forgive sin ahead of time in the OT because God knows the future with pinpoint precision. God the Father knew that Christ would shed His blood for our sins as a matter of fact.


That is not what scripture teaches:

Paul talks about those before the crucifixion but you have to really study what he said:

God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished... (Rom. 3:25, NIV)

This verse does provide a lot of information about how sins prior to Christ going to the cross were handled.

First off: Paul is giving the extreme contrast between the way sins where handle prior to the cross and after the cross, so if they were actually handled the same way “by the cross” there would be no contrast, just a time factor, but Paul said (forgiven) sins prior to the cross where left “unpunished”, but that also means the forgiven “sinner” after the cross were punished.

From Romans 3: 25 Paul tells us: God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. …

Another way of saying this would be “God offers the ransom payment (Christ Crucified and the blood that flowed from Him) to those that have the faith to receive that ransom. A lack of faith results in the refusal of the ransom payment (Christ crucified).

God is not the undeserving kidnapper nor is satan, but the unbeliever himself is holding back the child of God from the Father, that child that is within every one of us.

Paul goes on to explain:

Ro. 3: 25 …He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

I do not like the word “unpunished” but would use “undisciplined” (you discipline your children and do not punish your children).

So prior to the cross repentant forgiven people (saved individuals) could not be fairly and justly disciplined for their rebellious disobedience, but after the cross if we repent (come to our senses and turn to God) we can be fairly and justly disciplined and yet survive.

If you think about the crucifixion, you would realize, at the time Christ was on the cross, God in heaven out of empathy/Love for Christ would be experience an even greater pain than Christ. We as our Love grows and our realization of what we personally caused Christ to go through will feel a death blow to our hearts (Acts 2:37). We will experience the greatest pain we could experience and still live, which is the way God is disciplining us today and for all the right reasons because Loving discipline correctly accepted results in a wondrous relationship with our parent. (We can now comfortably feel justified before God.)

God and Christ would have personally preferred Christ’s blood to remain flowing through his veins, but it is I, who needs that blood outside of Christ to flowing over me and in me cleansing my heart. I need to feel that blood and know it is cleansing me.
 
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God and Christ would have personally preferred Christ’s blood to remain flowing through his veins, but it is I, who needs that blood outside of Christ to flowing over me and in me cleansing my heart. I need to feel that blood and know it is cleansing me.



The Lamb we see, was slain from the foundation of the world, so that was the preference for that to be established, as it was..


Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
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Faithful777

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Man has the advantage over the angels in not originally being created eternal beings. God built a better mousetrap.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 
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timothyu

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To save us all from Satan's power
When we were gone astray
Oh tidings of comfort and joy
Thanks but I've been trying to hold off on classic carols, as comforting and wise as they may be year round, until at least December. But now that we've started... time to enjoy.
 
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bling

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The Lamb we see, was slain from the foundation of the world, so that was the preference for that to be established, as it was..


Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Just because the slaying of the Lamb was part of the original plan does not mean God and Christ were personally happy about having to do it. Christ's pray in the garden shows He was not happy about it, but was willing to do it.
 
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bling

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Yes and we work together with Christ to be saved..


2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
You do not "work" to get something, but it is your privilege and honor to work with Christ helping others, you have already got all you are going to get with the exception of being in heaven right now, but not being in heaven right now gives you the honor of helping others.
 
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Faithful777

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Just because the slaying of the Lamb was part of the original plan does not mean God and Christ were personally happy about having to do it. Christ's pray in the garden shows He was not happy about it, but was willing to do it.



Christ is the Holy Spirit, this is joy of the Lord, and the joy was before Christ so He did finish with JOY.....


Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 Thessalonians 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
 
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Christ died on the cross because it was the Father's plan to show forth the glory of his own goodness through the glory of the goodness of his one and only Son,

I prefer more Scriptural citations to people’s replies. But I was able to find a verse that indirectly suggests this.

John 17:1 says,
“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee”

But I believe even Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection was all done to the glory of God through the glory of the Son. While Christ dying on the cross did give glory, Christ’s glory was truly manifested with the resurrection (Note: This would also include His 1st ascension to the Father to enter the temple by His blood after telling Mary not to touch Him; Christ needed to do this so that He could be our Heavenly High Priest).

But this glory would not be the Calvinist’s version of glory whereby God was only dying for the Elect only and not for the sins of the whole world or God randomly choosing who He wants saving some and not others (Based on on conditions within the individual).

You said:

that God might redeem for himself a treasured inheritance with whom he desired fellowship,
and who would be the spotless and without-blemish bride of his Son.

Sounds like Ephesians 5:25-27.
 
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