Can Salvation be lost?

To everyone who discusses salvation, instead of living it, of course they would not want it to be possible to disappear. But that is why it will do.

To others saying, if you do not do such and such, as they do, they think they can show you the way to eternal life, when eternal life is Christ, the Shepherd of His own sheep, He finds them and needs no hirelings to do the job ( half job)

The question then is, can salvation be found, no it cannot, and then can you lose what you never found, no you cannot.

It does not give much hope, but hope in men's words and discussions is hardly hope already, the hope is in raising well above that ( that is where Christ is, in high places)

Trivalee said:

Heb 9:14 can't be disputed. Thanks for clarifying this to me.

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You are most welcome.

Faithful777 said:

The question then is, can salvation be found, no it cannot, and then can you lose what you never found, no you cannot.

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Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Luke 8:11-15
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3


Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalms 41:9) (Matthew 10:1, Matthew 10:16) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).


Actually, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. The Corinthians believers were warned that God would destroy their temple if they defiled it (1 Corinthians 3:17). This was no doubt because the Corinthians justified the sins of strife, and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3) which are sins that we see listed in Galatians 5:19-21. Paul said that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Obviously the Corinthian believers were initially saved by the gospel, but they did not continue to abide with God and His good ways by the time Paul wrote 1st Corinthians.
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

"Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:"


Hebrews 11 speaks of Israel who never fell away, they never entered into the rest.

Taking heed, is to the same heart of unbelief being the case of the ones hearing, and instead of belief in Christ ( to have belief in Christ is to not die in your sins) they are hardened through sin which is unbelief ( people such as Israel still in the law hence Hebrews..

Hebrews 11:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.





Hebrews 4 speaks the very same, its the next chapter, still about the rest of God and how Israel through unbelief struggled to enter, but how belief is how we enter..


Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.





Hebrews 6 does speak of what bears thorns is rejected ( this is those faithless again as the good tree cant produce evil fruit) and is why it is concluded better things are of the believers..



Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.






Some have a wrong manner ( it is their manner and is not falling away matter) and do not care about exhortation, but the ones who hear exhortation,it is not saying they fall away too...



Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,




Many are defiled, and of course we know that is destined, as many are called but few are chosen ( why would the few chosen go any same path as the ones not chosen?)..


Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;



Again, read the words, some are already put away ( they had no good conscience) and those in a good conscience do good ( good tree cant do evil)..


1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:




Again read the words, they have no conscience, it is what is and always was missing...


1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Sal was told what manner of a king he would be before he became king, again destined..



1 Samuel 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.





Demas is example of not being chosen, as the Apostles were chosen out of the world, and loving this world means the love of the Father is not in them...




John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.


2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.




Luke 15 shows about repentance, and repentance is not to be repented of..


Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.




Judas was told to be the opposite to righteousness, ( predestined)as his seed after him would continually beg bread...


Psalm 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Psalm 109:10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.





These ones who err concerning the truth, do so because they have the spirit of error, as all who are said to be of God are heard and those who hear them not are also of that spirit of error..



2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Potentials:



The servant in Luke 12, had no potential, he is described already as AN EVIL SERVANT...


Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;



The opposite to falling is spoken, to rule his own house well, taking care of his own house before he does the job of the church of God..


1 Timothy 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.




Instructions are given how to be faithful like God, to also know the hypocrites alreasdy have their rewward, so you do not appoear to men in anything..


Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Ephesians 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;



Revelation is a general rebuke for everybody in this world, this is why it is spoken exasctly that way ( as many as I love I rebuke)

Then to all who hear His voice ( hearing what the Spirit says to the churches) they hear the swame message, we are to overcome ) this world)


Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

yes to the justified by law ones again, they are already fallen from grace, they do not believe in the hope of righteousness by faith, they go to establish their own through law..


Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.



If we are to continue in the faith, then we do what the next verse says and what Apostle Paul did ( he shows example of the way to follow Christ without failure) to fill up the afflictions of Christ in our flesh,for his body's sake, the church..


Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:




Apostle Paul again showing the way of certainty, is to not be a castaway ( it is not showing that we can be one here )

1 Corinthians 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.




This confirms we stand by faith, it is how God calls us, God was severe to Israel ( He has mercy on whom He will) and God gave us all things that pertain to that godliness, and confident when He begins He finishes..


Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

You might have given your lists to the wrong person, because if I have faith ( in Christ) I am able to believe in overcoming, and If one did not ( for example) they might see failure all around. ( in the verses of faith)

Faithful777 said:

"Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:"


Hebrews 11 speaks of Israel who never fell away, they never entered into the rest.

Taking heed, is to the same heart of unbelief being the case of the ones hearing, and instead of belief in Christ ( to have belief in Christ is to not die in your sins) they are hardened through sin which is unbelief ( people such as Israel still in the law hence Hebrews..

Hebrews 11:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

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Well, first, those verses you quote are in Hebrews 3 and they are not in Hebrews 11.
Second, Hebrews 3:1 is not referring to Israel. It says, “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;” (Hebrews 3:1).

Hebrews 3:14 says, “For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;”

You said:

Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

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In Romans 7:7-13, Paul is recounting Israelite history and speaking as a Jew throughout time with the coming in of the Law of Moses and what that was like.

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his experience as a Pharisee before he became a Christian. Paul (Saul) is describing his experience of what it is like to struggle in keeping the Old Covenant Law that did not include Jesus Christ.

Romans 7:25 is a verse that transitions back to the present day reality as Paul being a Christian. He is thankful that he now has victory in Jesus Christ His Lord who can deliver him from his body of death (Which was a problem before). Otherwise why is Paul thanking Jesus?

Romans 13:14 says,
"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."

You said:

Hebrews 4 speaks the very same, its the next chapter, still about the rest of God and how Israel through unbelief struggled to enter, but how belief is how we enter..

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Well, the writer of Hebrews makes a parallel of Israel’s unbelief in Hebrews 4 with the admonition that he is giving his to his fellow brethren.

You said:

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

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This is not talking about Initial Salvation but Continue Salvation in one continuing to remain faithful unto death. Hebrews 3 talks about how a believer can harden their hearts by the deceitfulness of sin and depart from the living God. You cannot depart from the living God if you never had the living God in your life.

You said:

Hebrews 6 does speak of what bears thorns is rejected ( this is those faithless again as the good tree cant produce evil fruit) and is why it is concluded better things are of the believers..

Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

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Hebrews 6:4-6 would be a useless scare tactic if no believer could ever commit it. Just because the author of Hebrews was convinced better things of his audience does not mean that this would be the case for all believers because that is why he wrote the warning he did in Hebrews 6:4-6.

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6).

This is talking about apostasy (denying Jesus as one’s Savior while having had the Holy Spirit), and it is not talking about going prodigal temporarily into a life of sin.

You said:

Some have a wrong manner ( it is their manner and is not falling away matter) and do not care about exhortation, but the ones who hear exhortation,it is not saying they fall away too...

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Sorry, both Hebrews 3, and Hebrews 6 talks about falling away or apostasy (Whether you like that truth or not).

You said:

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

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“Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; ) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:” (Hebrews 10:22-24).

This is referring to how we need to have faith in God’s grace, and have our hearts sprinkled from having an evil conscience. It talks about how we need to provoke one another to love and do good works.

So the context of Hebrews 10:26 in willfully sinning or there remains no more sacrifice for sins is referring to exactly what it says. Some believers need to sprinkled clean in having an evil conscience that justifies sin. Others need to be provoked to love and do good works because the unprofitable servant in this life will be cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30).

You said:

Many are defiled, and of course we know that is destined, as many are called but few are chosen ( why would the few chosen go any same path as the ones not chosen?)..

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A person determines themselves whether they are want to be among the chosen or not.

“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;” (Colossians 3:12).

You said:

Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Again, read the words, some are already put away ( they had no good conscience)

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No. Read the context.

Hebrews 12:14-15 says, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”

So verse 14 is telling us the believer (the reader) to follow after peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. So we are being commanded to do something without which there are consequences if we don’t do not obey.

You said:

and those in a good conscience do good ( good tree cant do evil)..

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Jesus says, “Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.” (Matthew 12:33).

So a person determines at any point whether they want to make the fruit and the tree good or not.

You said:

1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Again read the words, they have no conscience, it is what is and always was missing...

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Keep reading. We learn that Humenaus and Alexander were delivered unto Satan so that they would learn not to blaspheme. These were both an example of those who shipwrecked their faith.

“Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.” (1 Timothy 1:19-20).

Why do they need to be delivered unto Satan to learn not to blaspheme? It was so that they could potentially come back and get their hearts right with God again.

You said:

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

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You cannot depart from Burlington, Vermont airport if you were never in Burlington airport.
The same can be said for departing the faith. You cannot depart from the faith if you never had the faith.

It is to the Hebrews, it is speaking of Moses, and the chapter speaks of Israel unable to enter into rest because of unbelief



Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

We hold fast if we do unlike Israel who could not hold fast as they were in that law of sin, and as said in Romans 7, by it they were killed..



Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Romans 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

"This is not talking about Initial Salvation but Continue Salvation in one continuing to remain faithful unto death. Hebrews 3 talks about how a believer can harden their hearts by the deceitfulness of sin and depart from the living God. You cannot depart from the living God if you never had the living God in your life."



Hebrews 3 and 4 is comparing the fault of Israel, in law and no faith, and how we must not be in that same fault of seeking without faith, that is why there is constantly that comparison, as those of law are unfaithful

"Hebrews 6:4-6 would be a useless scare tactic if no believer could ever commit it. Just because the author of Hebrews was convinced better things of his audience does not mean that this would be the case for all believers because that is why he wrote the warning he did in Hebrews 6:4-6.

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)."



Yes convinced of better means for all he said, when he said of you.

It is those who are not of faith ( such as Hebrews keeps showing about, Israel and to the Hebrews) who do not enter because of unbelief, and in unbelief they do bear thorns ( good tree cant bear thorns)

“Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; ) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:” (Hebrews 10:22-24).

This is referring to how we need to have faith in God’s grace, and have our hearts sprinkled from having an evil conscience. It talks about how we need to provoke one another to love and do good works."



Yes to have a change of conscience, and those who do not have the good conscience do fall away ( and are already unable to enter the rest because of unbelief)


1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

"So the context of Hebrews 10:26 in willfully sinning or there remains no more sacrifice for sins is referring to exactly what it says. Some believers need to sprinkled clean in having an evil conscience that justifies sin. Others need to be provoked to love and do good works because the unprofitable servant in this life will be cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30)."


Sinning is again unbelief, what is not of faith is sin, the believer has a good conscience, that is how they are saved, believing in the resurrection of Christ, and as for provoking to good works, is because they produce evil fruit, and have not got love, or the love of God is shed into us..


Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

"A person determines themselves whether they are want to be among the chosen or not."


John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Hebrews 12:14-15 says, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”

So verse 14 is telling us the believer (the reader) to follow after peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. So we are being commanded to do something without which there are consequences if we don’t do not obey."



Christ gives us His peace, it was given already..


John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Jesus says, “Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.” (Matthew 12:33).

So a person determines at any point whether they want to make the fruit and the tree good or not."


Yes, but it is God who planted the tree, so they cant plant themselves..


Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

“Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.” (1 Timothy 1:19-20).

Why do they need to be delivered unto Satan to learn not to blaspheme? It was so that they could potentially come back and get their hearts right with God again."



They are turned unto satan, that is them in blasphemy. Others may see and repent, but not the ones already turned to satan..


1 Timothy 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

"You cannot depart from Burlington, Vermont airport if you were never in Burlington airport.
The same can be said for departing the faith. You cannot depart from the faith if you never had the faith."


Israel had the zeal of God but not according to truth..

Psalm 106:12 Then believed they his words; they sang his praise.
13 They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel:
14 But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert.
15 And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.


Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.