TatiG

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.
 
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HTacianas

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgment whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

The Revelation is a brief recounting of the birth of Jesus, the Flight to Egypt, persecution of the Church of the writer's time, an in-depth description of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and a vague look into the distant future.

If you ant to now what the bulk of the Revelation describes, read The Jewish War by Flavius Josephus. It's unmistakable. Sea turning to blood, fire coming down from heaven in the sight of men, men hiding in the rocks of the earth, hailstones the weight of a talent, men seeking death and not finding it, men killed by the beasts of the earth, and on and on.
 
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ewq1938

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Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

This sets the following in the end times, near the second coming and end of the world. That alone proves the events are future rather than historic.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, ( whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

That is concerning the Great Tribulation that comes near the second coming and end of the world.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And here is that same second coming of the end times.

That proves futurism.
 
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LeGato

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

I think End Times are either here or right around the corner...given the clues in Revelation. Israel is even claiming that their messiah is here, alive, and well. I think there will be a tribulation that we will have to just try our best to live through obediently. And I believe Jesus only comes back once. But what do I know? I need to reread the bible yet again :p
 
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Douggg

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.
Revelation 6-19, there is one central arch villain to come (futurist view).

Starting as the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 and ending with that person being cast alive into the lake of fire in Revelation 19.

A span of activity of 7 years.

Here is the simplified activity of that person.



upload_2021-11-20_21-25-5.jpeg
 
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JSRG

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I haven't ever looked too much into idealism so I can't comment too much on that... I probably should take a look sometime to see the arguments for it, though on the face of it, it doesn't make too much sense to me. But of the other three, I don't find historicism tenable for various reasons, which leaves preterism and futurism. I can't consider myself either in all honesty, but would say I lean towards preterism (partial preterism--full preterism I reject). There's far too many things in Revelation and other passages that match the Jewish War and destruction of Jerusalem for me to consider it coincidence. On the other hand, there are problems I have with preterism that I haven't seen satisfactory explanations for yet, so I cannot embrace it and consider myself a proper preterist.
 
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Douggg

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Bible Highlighter

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

I am a Futurist. I believe much of the Eschatology (or End Times) is yet to be fulfilled. You both can check out my End Times Chronology here (if you guys are interested).

Pre-Trib Only - My New End Times Chronology

Granted, there are some things that have been fulfilled in Scripture like Israel becoming a nation again, and 2 Timothy 3:1-9 happening in our current time.

Anyways, I think the most important thing that we as believers can learn from studying the End Times is working on our walk with the Lord Jesus in being ready spiritually at any hour for Him to take us home so that we can be with our beloved Lord. For this world is not our home. For if it is not the Rapture, then surely it will be death that will take us home if we are faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ in this life.

May the Lord bless you both greatly in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

BTW ~ I know this is off topic, but if you guys are looking for some great Christian movies to watch together, I would highly recommend checking out the following Christians DVDs in the following CF thread.

My Christian DVD Collection

May the Lord goodness be upon you both greatly.
 
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Christian Gedge

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I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

Each of the main views have variants. My 'Historicist' variant is shown on this thread with a series of downloadable maps and explanations. A strong point of Historicism (IMO) is how it ties Daniel with Revelation better than the others.
 
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Acts29

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

As I understand it, both are true. The great, in terms of expanse, tribulation began the day Adam ate the fruit. The ground was cursed and he had to work to eat, just we all do to this day. This is the great tribulation referred to in Rev 6.
However, there is another time of intense tribulation at the time of the end, as Jesus said in Matthew 24 and Revelation 12 when Satan is cast to the earth.

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.
Futurist. All the prophets in the Bible wrote about the time of the end, from Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Isaiah, etc. A few prophecies were about Jesus' first coming of course. The vast majority are still unfulfilled. Why then should I think the REVELATION/REVEALING of Jesus Christ is history? If so, the book is worthless, and has been worthless a long time. I believe God specifically wrote about the time of the end on purpose so His word would remain relevant throughout all time. The Bible is forward looking for the blessed hope.

It really depends on how literal you believe God to be. Those who "interpret" God's words mostly symbolically can make them mean anything. Like looking at an artist's painting. If God's word is artistic, there are no end to the "interpretations" just like an artist's painting. On the other hand, if God's word is mostly literal then its meaning is rather plain. That is something you will have to decide.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Welcome to CF, TatiC!

I hope you and your fiance enjoy your study together. I know this one is always of interest.

Revelation has always been one of my favorite books to study but I've never been abosolutely convinced by any of the views, so presently I'm not attached to any exacting eschatalogical perspective.

However, as a philosopher and hermeneutically minded person, I explore and consider as many of the various views of Biblical Eschatology as I can and through all of that, I loosely entertain a position which is more or less an amalgamation of Preterist/Pre-millennial/Historicist aspects of biblical prophecy. With all of this in mind, I tend to think the book of Revelation covers various "highlights" in human history that have been progressing ever since the 1st century until now.

Beyond that I can't say more since the Book of Revelation is expressed with echoes of Jewish prophetic metaphor and symbolism and much of it, I think, remains somewhat obscure to us.

Peace! :cool:
 
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d taylor

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

I would suggest these books.

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Gods-P...9e464&pd_rd_wg=lsYCU&pd_rd_i=1943399255&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Make-War-Zane-Hodges/dp/1879534010

https://www.amazon.com/Footsteps-Messiah-Arnold-G-Fruchtenbaum/dp/0914863096
 
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keras

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Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view.
I am none of those, maybe Futurist in how I promote the Prophetic Word, as being mainly unfulfilled:

Romans 8:19-23 The created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed. It was His choice to subject all things to mortality and decay, with the eventual goal of His people entering into the glorious liberty of immortality and a renewed creation. Up to the present as we know, the whole of creation, in all its parts, groans as if in the pangs of childbirth. What is more, we also, to whom the Spirit is given as first-fruits of the harvest to come, are inwardly groaning in anticipation of our adoption as children of God and our liberation from mortality.

Isaiah 42:13-15 The Lord has kept silence and restrained Himself for all this age, allowing this world to go its own way. But as the appointed time approaches, He is like a woman in labor, prepared and ready to take action. The Lord will go forth as a warrior, roused to a fury in the heat of battle. He will shout His battle cry and will triumph over His enemies. The land will be laid to waste, all the plants and trees will burn and the streams and lakes will become dry. Isaiah 63:4, Habakkuk 2:3, Jeremiah 4:23-28

Matthew 24:3-8 Lord; tell us the signs of the end of this age. Jesus replied: Take care that no-one misleads you, for many false Messiahs and teachers will come and many will be fooled by them. The time is coming when you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, for there will be an increase of wars, earthquakes, diseases and famines. All these things are the birth pangs of the new age. Jeremiah 15:2


As Jesus prophesied, there will be wars, earthquakes, diseases and famines at the end of this age. He likened these things to ‘birth pangs’. When we consider normal childbirth, the labor pangs are separated by periods of relative calm. So if there have been times when clusters of those four disasters have occurred, we can ascertain that time must be very short for this age. Here are the facts:

1/ In 1914-19, World War 1 occurred. There were 7 earthquakes of over 8 magnitude. Smallpox and typhus killed millions, but Spanish flu killed at least 50 million in 1918/19. There were terrible famines in Europe, and Russia.

2/ During 1939-45 there was World War 2 and 8 earthquakes of over 8 magnitude. Typhus again killed millions, in North Africa, in Iran and Europe. Anne Frank died of typhus. A terrible famine in China killed at least 45 million.

3/ The data suggests that the third ‘birth pang’, commenced in Nov. 11, 2001. Wars and rumors of wars are rife. It is considered that the global war on terrorism is a world war. There have been more than 20 earthquakes of 8 and two over 9 magnitude. Diseases such as cancer, AIDs and Covid are of epidemic proportions. Crop failures due to unusual weather and wars result in famines in Asia, Russia and Africa.


But the last, most shocking and devastating event of the third birth pang, will be the great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. This will be the many prophesied ‘fire from heaven’ that describes a huge Coronal Mass Ejection sunstrike, will affect the whole world, killing probably billions. This will enable two things; the establishment of a One World Government and the re-settling of the Lord’s faithful people into all of the holy Land. The time gap of the Seventh Seal, Revelation 8:1, [1/2 hour in Heaven = 20 years on earth] from this CME until the Great Tribulation is prophesied as a time of peace and prosperity. After the G.T. Jesus will Return for His Millennial reign.

4/ The fourth and final ‘birth pang’, will be the Great Tribulation, so vividly described in Revelation, but ending with the Return of Jesus and the start of the Millennial era.
Ref: logostelos.info
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Chapters 1-3 describe the Church age. Rapture of the Church happens before events of chapter 4. Chapers 4 to 19 are about the 7 years of Great Tribulation on Earth, while the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is in Heaven, then the Lord comes with His bride to Earth after the events of chapter 19, destroys the antichrist and false prophet, and the establishes 1000 years Kingdom of God on Earth.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.
In the book of revelation it is said that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Therefore, if the interpretation of the book does not result in testimony of Jesus, it is incorrect.

If a part of the interpretation does not result in testimony of Jesus, it is incorrect.
 
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Freth

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Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Futurist. As @ewq1938 has shown, one should look at the prophetic words of Jesus in Matthew 24 to understand the events surrounding the tribulation. In this chapter, we see prophecies that pertain to the destruction of the temple, but also are types of end time events that will be repeated. For instance, the abomination of desolation, fleeing to the mountains, and Christian persecution.

Where before the events were physical, in the end time the events are spiritual. The temple is the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). The abomination of desolation is apostasy within the church (Daniel 8:13, Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). We wrestle with spiritual wickedness in high places (Ephesians 6:12). The mark and the Seal are spiritual, not physical (Ephesians 1:13).

These are key to understanding the conflict of the end time; to not be looking for a physical third temple to be built, nor a man to occupy it to signal an abomination. The apostasy of the church has been in play for a long time (spiritual wickedness in high places), but only now is the climate right for the beasts described in Revelation 13 to come on the scene and fulfill the prophecy of worship of the beast and the mark.

The beginning of sorrows, as described in Matthew 24 (et al; 2 Timothy 3:1-7, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-7), have been ongoing for some time. I fully expect the tribulation to happen very soon. Fleeing to escape persecution will be repeated, due to the death decree enforcing worship (Revelation 13:15).

I would also point out that all time prophecies of the Bible have been fulfilled already (Revelation 10:6-7), including the 7 years that many attribute to the length of the tribulation, but was actually fulfilled between 27 AD and 34 AD, as the 70th week. This means that the tribulation is an unspecified amount of time, but is most likely a short time (Matthew 24:22). We are at the very end of earth's history.

It would take a much larger post to explain it all, but that's the quickstart version.
 
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