QAnon shaman sentenced to 41 months

Albion said:

No.

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No you must be, because it was the POLICE that said he died from a fire extinguisher.

High Fidelity said:

The only surprise is that they got as far as they did without stepping over the bodies of their co-conspirators.

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At whatever point there was a body to step over would have been the spot where they stopped to clutch their pearls and shriek as the shooting of the traitor Babbit demonstrated.

Albion said:

It's hard to know what to think of that Reuters article. The Shaman guy aside, no one was killed in the riot except for Ashli Babbitt, an unarmed protester, who was murdered by a guard. Yet Reuters says four or five were killed there and then or took their own lives, so what else in that news report is fiction? Well, it quotes Trump as saying "Fight like hell" (and nothing else) in his speech, but it's well-known that he urged his listeners to be "peaceful" as they marched to the Capitol later on.

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"Fight like hell" and "be peaceful" ...

I would argue that the actions that day fell somewhere in between ...

loveofourlord said:

No you must be, because it was the POLICE that said he died from a fire extinguisher.

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That theory was later shown to be a mistake.

A_Thinker said:

"Fight like hell" and "be peaceful" ...

I would argue that the actions that day fell somewhere in between ...

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So, you agree with me about the bias that's evident in that part of the article.

Albion said:

So, you agree with me about the bias that's evident in that part of the article.

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No ... masses of American citizens did indeed breach the US Capital Building on January 6, 2021 ... for the purpose of impeding the progression of US government proceedings.

That action did result in at least 5 persons losing their lives, including one Capital policeman who succumbed on the day following, at least one other who took his own life as a result, at least a couple of protestors, one of whom was stampeded, and another that suffered a cardiac episode, and Ashli Babbitt, who was shot as she attempted to enter (through a broken window) an area of the Capital housing governmental officials being protected from the evident threat by law enforcement ... and explicitly declared off-limits to protestors.

I wonder what your response would be to an intruder climbing through a broken window in your home ... with an angry crowd behind them ... ???

Albion said:

That theory was later shown to be a mistake.

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yes, but the right want to pretend that it was all made up by leftist media to attack rioters, it was the polices pres release that said he died from injuries during riot, it was police that released the fire extinguisher, how is that now the fault of the new york times and others for reporting what they were told?

Albion said:

the unnecessary death of a young woman and veteran who was murdered for no good reason.

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Congratulations!

Albion has insisted on this for long enough to deserve the Unsinkable Rubber Duck Award of Merit for Persistence in the face of the Truth:

A_Thinker said:

No ... masses of American citizens did indeed breach the US Capital Building on January 6, 2021 ... for the purpose of impeding the progression of US government proceedings.

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That action did result in at least 5 persons losing their lives....

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Yes, and that proves that such events can stress one's heart. Other than for Ashli Babbitt, who was killed in cold blood for no good reason, the deaths were from natural causes.

And the claims that were made to the opposite, all of which have since been disproved, show us that the people who wanted to create a campaign issue for 2022 out of this incident made up most of the storyline that has been sold to the American public. And that includes the comic addition of hundreds of National Guardsmen posted around the building for months afterwards, doing nothing every day but stand for photographs next to chain link fencing.

Albion said:

Ashli Babbitt ... was killed in cold blood for no good reason

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Albion has had his award. Two more inaccuracies will not improve his score.

Let us be clear. Ashli Babbitt can be seen in a hysterical state in footage shot from outside the Chamber moments before the fatal shot. The crowd she was with were very excited. This is in the public domain and viewed by millions around the world.

Footage shot within the Chamber clearly shows Babbitt trying to get through the broken window into the Chamber and a uniformed officer giving the proper notice prior to firing. This too is in the public domain and viewed by millions around the world.

Thus, as the subsequent enquiry found, the officer acted correctly and within the law. Not cold blooded, not murder.

Albion said:

Yes, and that proves that such events can stress one's heart. Other than for Ashli Babbitt, who was killed in cold blood for no good reason, the deaths were from natural causes.

And the claims that were made to the opposite, all of which have since been disproved, show us that the people who wanted to create a campaign issue for 2022 out of this incident made up most of the storyline that has been sold to the American public. And that includes the comic addition of hundreds of National Guardsmen posted around the building for months afterwards, doing nothing every day but stand for photographs next to chain link fencing.

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Ashli Babbitt was killed while committing a violent crime. This has been explained to you multiple times.

Her blood is on the hands of EX President Donald Trump who continues to lie incessantly about the outcome of the 2020 election.

Albion said:

Yes, and that proves that such events can stress one's heart. Other than for Ashli Babbitt, who was killed in cold blood for no good reason, the deaths were from natural causes.

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So ... what is it you would have done ... if you were facing Ashli Babbitt climbing through your broken out window ... with a angry mob behind her ?

A_Thinker said:

So ... what is it you would have done ... if you were facing Ashli Babbitt climbing through your broken out window ... with a angry mob behind her ?

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For starters, the shooter was not 'facing' Ashli Babbitt by the usual sense of that word, nor was he right up close to her. Nor was he panicked and had to decide in a hurry what to do.

When people complain about the use of the word murder in this case, it needs to be known that the shooter stood apart from Babbitt with his gun drawn and aimed at her, an unarmed woman, thinking about his next move for some time. Then he apparently shot to kill.

And if the situation was so desperate, as many have tried so say, how come this was the only protester in an "insurrection" who had this happen to her? Others were apparently moving up and down the corridors of the building, looking for Congressmen to quiz. One, as we all saw on TV got so far as to sit in the chair of the Speaker of the House. Some, I understand, rifled though some papers. So why this woman who was nowhere near any of that...but broke a window??

You ask about alternatives. You can easily see that there are a number of possibilities, given all these facts.

Albion said:

For starters, the shooter was not 'facing' Ashli Babbitt by the usual sense of that word, nor was he right up close to her. Nor was he panicked and had to decide in a hurry what to do.

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None of this matters ...

Albion said:

When people complain about the use of the word murder in this case, it needs to be known that the shooter stood apart from Babbitt with his gun drawn and aimed at her, an unarmed woman, thinking about his next move for some time. Then he apparently shot to kill.

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He shot her ... and she bled out. Apparently, none of her compatriots provided enough care to save her.

Albion said:

And if the situation was so desperate, as many have tried so say, how come this was the only protester in an "insurrection" who had this happen to her?

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Well, quite obviously, noone else attempted to climb through that same broken window.

Albion said:

Others were apparently moving up and down the corridors of the building, looking for Congressmen to quiz. Some, as we all saw on TV got so far as to sit in the chair of the Speaker of the House. Some, I understand, rifled though some papers. So why this woman who was nowhere near any of that ... but broke a window??

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The areas where others in the others in the mob had broken through ... did not house any government personnel. They found empty offices and chambers, The Capital police did a good job of preventing encounters between the mob and those they sought that day.

Those guarding the door that Ashli Babbitt was coming through ... were actually protecting government personnel bunkered in the area.

So ... what do you do if Ashli Babbett is climbing through your broken in bedroom window ... with an angry mob behind her ???

A_Thinker said:

None of this matters ...

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It does...because it's the answer to what you chose to ask me in your previous post. Perhaps it wouldn't matter otherwise.

He shot her ... and she bled out. Apparently, none of her compatriots provided enough care to save her.

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I don't know what the answer to that would be. But if something about this doesn't matter, that point would be a good candidate.

The issue was about the shooter and the victim. If a dozen MDs had instantly come to her aid as she lay injured, the question about why the shooter did what he did would be unchanged.

The areas infested with the others in the mob ... did not contain any government personnel.

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I don't believe that's true.

Oh, Albion! The Chamber was not cleared when Babitt was shot. The Chamber was full of Senators. The howling mob was baying for the blood of VP Pence. The officer was doing his duty under duress.

Once the Vice President of USA and all the Senators were in their safe place the little force that had protected them could retire.

I don't understand what you mean about facing Babitt in the 'usual sense of that word'. He shot Babitt after the proper warning under procedure. He could not have known whether she was armed or not. Proper judicial process has exonerated him. Who are you to know better?

A_Thinker said:

The areas infested with the others in the mob ... did not contain any government personnel.

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Albion said:

I don't believe that's true.

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So ... you know of encounters that occurred between the mob ... and government officials ???

No, I just don't know if what you wrote there is accurate or not.

Albion said:

No, I just don't know if what you wrote there is accurate or not.

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So ... I guess you just ... don't ... know.

I can buy that ...

Albion said:

For starters, the shooter was not 'facing' Ashli Babbitt by the usual sense of that word, nor was he right up close to her.

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Now, I'm no expert on firearms or self-defense, but I generally recall the notion that firearms lose effectiveness if the other person can touch your gun.

Albion said:

Nor was he panicked and had to decide in a hurry what to do.

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Not panicked or rushed, for shame, he wasn't suitably reckless.

So an officer of the law identified a threat source, carefully drew his weapon in a semi-sheltered position, aimed it in the direction of a potential threat from an effective stand-off distance, carefully assessed the situation, determined that the threat to the position and people he was defending was escalating, and then fired just a single shot is *bad* police weapons usage?

Good grief.