Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

Douggg said:

No contradiction. There is an underlying reason.

The reason God had not destroyed Satan and his angels is because if God had done so prior the cross and resurrection - God would have to had to destroy all of mankind as well in equal justice for our sins.

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DavidPT said:

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

The verse Douggg submitted above, it says this. It says the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. Douggg even highlighted some of that. How can the house of Israel meant here not be meaning the ones that went into captivity for their iniquities? IOW, how can it mean the church?

Let's now compare to the following.

Amos 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

If the captivity in verse 14 does not involve inquity on their part, what was the reason for the captivity, then? Is not any of the house of Israel meant in Ezekiel 39:23 meaning any of the Israel meant in Amos 9:14-15? Isn't it the Israel meant in Amos 9:14 that shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them?

Is it not the Israel meant in Amos 9:14 that He will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which He have given them? Who is the speaker in these verses? Is it not the LORD God? Is it really such a bad idea to simply choose to agree with what is being said, then?

Once again, and I brought this up already, not sure which post or if it was even in this thread, one should be comparing Amos 9:14 to Isaiah 65:21-22, and interpreting Amos 9:14 in light of that. But since some ppl might think you can't interpret one OT passage in light of another OT passage, you can only interpret the OT in light of the NT, they might think this is a bad idea as well.

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Bob_1000 said:

So you're saying that Abraham, the father of Christianity, wasn't a part of the church? How about the Old Testament believer's that had the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them... were they also not a part of the church?

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Spiritual Jew said:

Why would anyone want to do that? The church is the body of Christ.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior....29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy...24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

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Spiritual Jew said:

Where did Paul even hint at such a thing as a 1000 year reign after the second coming of Christ?

Of course. Jesus Himself said so (Matthew 24:35) and it says so in Revelation 21:1. Why do you ask? If you thought I was talking about earthly Jerusalem in the post you were responding to, think again. It is the new heavenly Jerusalem that will last forever, not earthly Jerusalem.

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Spiritual Jew said:

I believe that is not a good translation of that verse. Jesus was clearly slain a bit less than 2,000 years ago, so it makes no sense to say that He was slain before the foundation of the world. I believe the NASB translated the verse more accurately.

Revelation 13:8 All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

It is the book of life that has been written since the foundation of the world. The Lamb was obviously after the foundation of the world.

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Spiritual Jew said:

Once again, you completely missed my point. I was not at all saying that Revelation 20 is all we need. That is absolutely false. I've said repeatedly that our interpretation of Revelation 20 cannot contradict other scripture. Yours does. My point had to do with the concept of souls living and reigning with Christ. There is no scripture which says that souls can't live and reign with Christ. But, there also isn't any other scripture which specifically talks about souls living and reigning with Christ. But, Revelation 20 does indicate that and, to me, that's enough because there is plenty of other scripture that speaks of the fact that Christ reigns now.

But your interpretation of it should not contradict other scripture, but it does. That's the problem. My interpretation of souls being in heaven and reigning with Christ there does not contradict other scripture.

We don't change the text at all. That is a false accusation. We interpret it differently than you. We recognize figurative text when we see it and we interpret it accordingly, unlike you.

An interpretation that contradicts other scripture is not valid.

That statement made no sense whatsoever.

That's my point. There isn't any other scripture which says that souls can't reign with Christ. But, there is scripture which indicates that all believers will be changed and have immortal bodies when Christ returns while all unbelievers will be killed. Your interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts those scriptures.

What does that even mean?. If text is symbolic you don't need to change the words to interpret it.

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Guojing said:

The explanation is on the same post, but you choose to delete it.

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Timtofly said:

The same verses Paul declared 2000 years between the Cross and the Second Coming.

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Spiritual Jew said:

No, your explanation didn't make any sense. I used scripture to support my point. Is that a problem for you? The verses I quoted prove clearly that the church is the body of Christ. Why would you want to deny what those passages so clearly teach?

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Spiritual Jew said:

But, I realize now that you were saying the princes of this world knew the Messiah was coming, but they did not know what He was coming to do

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Timtofly said:

Paradise is the same Garden.

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Guojing said:

Abraham is the father of the nation Israel. At the millennial reign he will be on earth with the Israel.

As for the body of Christ, our destiny, during those 1000 years, is in the heavens

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Guojing said:

You are of course free to disagree with my explanation.

The word church means "called out assembly".

The body of Christ IS a called out assembly.

But not all called out assemblies are the body of Christ, example the assembly in Acts 19:32

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Bob_1000 said:

And Abraham is the father of righteousness through faith aka Christianity.

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Spiritual Jew said:

I don't recall saying that "all called out assemblies are the body of Christ". I'm talking about the church that contains all those who believe in Christ. You know that the church is, don't you? Christ is the head of the church, which is the body of Christ. The church is the body of Christ, as the following make abundantly clear:

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Do you agree with what these verses are saying, which is that the body of Christ is the church?

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Guojing said:

Everyone is saved thru faith

It does not mean Israel and the body of Christ have the same purpose.

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Douggg said:

Do you know what they knew besides the messiah was coming (from Daniel 9:25)? They knew the messiah would be cutoff - killed.

The princes of this world are Satan and his angels like the prince of Persia and prince of Greece in Daniel 10:20.

But what they didn't know was that the third day the messiah would come back to life, overcoming death. That's not in Daniel 9:26.

So what Satan and his angels were apparently thinking is that they were fulfilling Daniel 9:26 in their part in getting Jesus crucified, and in doing so were keeping the Kingdom of God from being realized and replacing their own kingdom over the nations.

They had no idea that they sealed their own fate of eternal destruction - without mankind being destroyed with them and freed from the penalty of sin.
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Do you recall what I wrote about the disciples minds being closed from understanding in Luke 18:31-35, when Jesus told them that he was going to suffer and be put to death by the gentiles, according the prophets?

If you go to Luke 24:44-48, after the resurrection, Jesus reminded them of what he said to them in Luke 18:31-35 - opening their minds.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

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Guojing said:

The body of Christ IS a called out assembly, the church for all of us gentile believers. We agree on this.

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But not all called out assemblies in the Bible are the body of Christ. Do you agree with this?

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Bob_1000 said:

That I agree with, Israel’s purpose is to be the enemies of the gospel.

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