Why are Catholic countries resisting the LGBT agenda?

MikeinSeattle said:

Judging by this. It seems reasonable to me to assume that the Catholic church has done more to slow the acceptance of LGBT policies than any other Christian denomination (with the possible exception of the Orthodox Church).

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Are they openly campaigning against it. or are they teaching the doctrine of their church and people are following them?

The stance on homosexuality has been part of Christianity (Catholic Church and Protestant) since the first Century fathers. Why should they abandon their beliefs?

I'm not Catholic, but I 100% do not promote homosexual marriage. I believe it is abhorrent.

Unless you can clearly show where the Catholic Church is campaigning against homosexual marriage instead of just preaching their beliefs, I don't think your statement is accurate.

hislegacy said:

Are they openly campaigning against it. or are they teaching the doctrine of their church and people are following them?

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Agreed. I thought that claim was quite dubious.

Although it's true that the church has not succumbed to patronizing LGBT causes and events, etc. as some other denominations have done, it is probably also correct to say that the RCC has diluted its stand by constantly adding to their opposition the statement--always a part of the statement--that the Christian must love all people and that to be homosexual is fine so long as it's not a matter of performing sex acts, and so on.

While that stance is not flatly wrong of the RCC, the idea that the church remains, as was claimed, in the forefront of Christian opposition to the LGBT is truly open to question.

hislegacy said:

Are they openly campaigning against it. or are they teaching the doctrine of their church and people are following them?

The stance on homosexuality has been part of Christianity (Catholic Church and Protestant) since the first Century fathers. Why should they abandon their beliefs?

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CHristianity has a long history of supporting racial discrimination, the slave trade, the subjugation of women, attacks on Native Americans and a whole slew of other abhorrent ideas. Just because something has a long history doesn't make it good or just.

I'm not Catholic, but I 100% do not promote homosexual marriage. I believe it is abhorrent.

Unless you can clearly show where the Catholic Church is campaigning against homosexual marriage instead of just preaching their beliefs, I don't think your statement is accurate.

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Catholic Church and same sex marriage

Albion said:

While that stance is not flatly wrong of the RCC, the idea that the church remains, as was claimed, in the forefront of Christian opposition to the LGBT is truly open to question.

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Not fully supporting an organization or belief does not mean you are in opposition it is called diversity.

SilverBear said:

CHristianity has a long history of supporting racial discrimination, the slave trade, the subjugation of women, attacks on Native Americans and a whole slew of other abhorrent ideas. Just because something has a long history doesn't make it good or just.

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Sorry, we have a major disagreement here - but that is for a different thread.

As for the link - show the position coming directly from the Church instead of a number of peoples view points on what they think the church says.

Here is their position, directly from them:

Catholic Action for Faith and Family

That is their position based on their beliefs. Just because it doesn't support your position based on your beliefs does not make them wrong any more than it makes you right.

MikeinSeattle said:

If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

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Yes, same with Evangelicals.

Just so we are clear.........What are "LGBT policies"? Is it just gay marriage or are there other LGBT policies besides equal rights under the law?

MikeinSeattle said:

Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

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Question: Since you are addressing a religious organization that bases it's policies on Scripture and supplementary historical and Papal writings - what Scriptures or papers would show the change needed in their beliefs?

hislegacy said:

Not fully supporting an organization or belief does not mean you are in opposition it is called diversity.

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I guess so, but I was reflecting on the practice of opposing some organization or movement but compromising the point in the process.

Albion said:

I guess so, but I was reflecting on the practice of opposing some organization or movement but compromising the point in the process.

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Valid point - I was just adding to it.

tolly said:

[There seems to be a disconnect between Catholic teaching and the folks who sit in the pews, depending on the area of course. For instance, according to recent studies, a majority of American and European Catholics favor same-sex marriage.

Majority of U.S. Catholics’ opinions run counter to church on contraception, homosexuality

How Catholics around the world see same-sex marriage, homosexuality

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Isn't being disconnected from the teaching of the church to which one belongs evidence that the person doesn't really identify in that faith?

I suppose if the leader of that church agrees with a position, congregation members of that church should evaluate that position and decide whether it comports with the faith and doctrine they can stand up for.

The church in question uses, and has for centuries, a book which the church based its doctrine upon. The book hasn't changed, but the doctrine has (to the extent that can be reasonably determined based on the pronouncements from the leadership). Perhaps, if one applies these realities, the disconnect you allude to isn't so hard to understand.[/QUOTE]


Many Catholics especially in The USA and western Europe are cafeteria Catholics. Basically, we pick and choose which doctrines we believe in like a cafeteria line. Go for a scoop of atonement but skip the Mariology for example.

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iarwain said:

To be a Catholic, you are supposed to accept the doctrines of the Catholic Church. If you don't, you are considered a heretic. You're supposed to accept the entire package. Of course individuals take that with various grains of salt, but that's the way it's supposed to work. The Catholic Church still holds the official position that homosexuality is sinful. So if people take their religion seriously, they won't be accepting the LGBTQ agenda.

Of course younger people would be more likely to buy into it. Younger people have been a target for LGBTQ indoctrination, and it has paid dividends. There have been several recent studies that show an explosion in the percentage of young people identifying as LGBTQ. The numbers have increased as much as eightfold, depending on what studies you are looking at.

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There wasn't a rise in the LGBTQ population but a rise in people willing to admit they are gay.

hislegacy said:

Sorry, we have a major disagreement here - but that is for a different thread.

As for the link - show the position coming directly from the Church instead of a number of peoples view points on what they think the church says.

Here is their position, directly from them:

Catholic Action for Faith and Family

Marriage is, was, and always will be the union of one man and one woman in a permanent, faithful and fruitful union. Homosexual unions can never become marriage since they biologically cannot be open to children.​

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That is their position based on their beliefs. Just because it doesn't support your position based on your beliefs does not make them wrong any more than it makes you right.

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there are those who believe that interracial couples can never have a 'real' marriage. Does their belief make their position on interracial marriage right?

SilverBear said:

There is a huge number of heterosexual unions that are incapable or unwilling to produce children yet their marriage as happily accepted. So the position has nothing to do with reproduction or children
there are those who believe that interracial couples can never have a 'real' marriage. Does their belief make their position on interracial marriage right?​

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What about the religion that throws gays off of buildings - or beheads them - or hangs them from cranes. Do you have an issue with them?

MikeinSeattle said:

I used the term "LGBT policies" loosely to refer mainly to the push for legalization of gay marriage although many other similar legislations could obviously be grouped under the same term.

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For example? I mean besides gay marriage. What other laws are gays trying to get passed? I mean besides them wanting civil rights protection like every other American citizen.

rturner76 said:

For example? I mean besides gay marriage. What other laws are gays trying to get passed? I mean besides them wanting civil rights protection like every other American citizen.

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They already have it.

hislegacy said:

They already have it.

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So then what is the LGBT agenda?

rturner76 said:

So then what is the LGBT agenda?

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I wouldn’t know, but I know that gay marriage is legal.

hislegacy said:

I wouldn’t know, but I know that gay marriage is legal.

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Yes is is, that's why I was asking. The OP mentioned the LGBT agenda and besides gay marriage and civil rights, I can't think of much of an agenda.