Is faith a responsibility or a gift?

Clare73

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Saving faith occurs when we direct our God given faith toward God.
Not according to the NT.

Believing in God is not saving faith. Orthodox Jews, while rejecting Jesus Christ, believe in God, but that faith does not save them.
 
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fhansen

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Is faith in God a responsibility that one should fulfill? Or, is faith a gift of grace? Perhaps faith is a matter of both responsibility and grace?
Yes, it’s both: a gift and an obligation/choice, for the sake of righteousness/justice, to accept and act upon that gift.
 
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timothyu

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Yes, it’s both: a gift and an obligation/choice, for the sake of righteousness/justice, to accept and act upon that gift.
Is your interpretation of faith something other than putting trust in the fact God's will is better than our own?
 
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timothyu

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No, it’s relying on Him instead of ourselves.
Same thing as long as there is no middle man other than Jesus. We are not to speak for God but allow God to speak and work through us, we having no say in the matter and simply trust that in using us He knows what he is doing, regardless of outcome for us.
 
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fhansen

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Same thing as long as there is no middle man other than Jesus. We are not to speak for God but allow God to speak and work through us, we having no say in the matter and simply trust that in using us He knows what he is doing, regardless of outcome for us.
Oh.
 
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bling

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Not according to the NT.

Believing in God is not saving faith. Orthodox Jews, while rejecting Jesus Christ, believe in God, but that faith does not save them.
What you believe about God and are willing to trust and accept God to do, determines your salvation.

I was talking about taking the God given faith given all mature adults and turning that faith toward God to make it a saving faith. Yes, you can have a non-saving faith in God, but it is not the same degree of faith found in a saving faith.
 
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fhansen

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Same thing as long as there is no middle man other than Jesus. We are not to speak for God but allow God to speak and work through us, we having no say in the matter and simply trust that in using us He knows what he is doing, regardless of outcome for us.
Is that your opinion, or are you speaking for God? Either way I don't know about middle men. The purpose of the church has always been to relay the Good News, pointing men to God so they may be reconciled and enter fellowship with Him.
 
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timothyu

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The purpose of the church has always been to relay the Good News, pointing men to God so they may be reconciled and enter fellowship with Him.
Then that leavers the question as to why Gentile Christianity broadsided Jesus and abandoned allegiance to the Kingdom of God to join forces with the kingdoms of man, contrary to the will of God.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
 
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fhansen

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Then that leavers the question as to why Gentile Christianity broadsided Jesus and abandoned allegiance to the Kingdom of God to join forces with the kingdoms of man, contrary to the will of God.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
No such broadsiding was done. If you haven't noticed people, though they should not, often behave badly-they sin. And they'll continue to do so at times even as believers, but hopefully much less in any case. Some will receive the light of the gospel and run with and be changed by it, producing much fruit while others will remain in ther selfishness and pride, burying what they've been given, making excuses to pursue their own agendas, sometimes in the name of God while far from His will. Others yet will practice the faith hypocritically, legalistically, a very human foible. But the basic gospel itself remains the same and the church in both the east and west continued to teach it as received at the beginning. We'll all answer for what we did with His gift.
 
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timothyu

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No such broadsiding was done.
It most certainly did. Jesus taught the governance Kingdom of God. Rome was a governance built upon the ways of man. Jesus Gospel of the Kingdom represented a counter-culture to the ways of man, yet the gentile Christians in their greed decided to team up with Rome in order to build their own worldly empire built upon the same foundations as all previous kingdoms of man. There is no denying that. Scripture speaks of the Gospel of the Kingdom and His will be done in earth as it is in Heaven, while the religion headed straight back to the ways of the world to become a power and oppressor like the kingdoms before it.
 
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fhansen

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It most certainly did. Jesus taught the governance Kingdom of God. Rome was a governance built upon the ways of man. Jesus Gospel of the Kingdom represented a counter-culture to the ways of man, yet the gentile Christians in their greed decided to team up with Rome in order to build their own worldly empire built upon the same foundations as all previous kingdoms of man. There is no denying that. Scripture speaks of the Gospel of the Kingdom and His will be done in earth as it is in Heaven, while the religion headed straight back to the ways of the world to become a power and oppressor like the kingdoms before it.
Nah, the church is necessarily both an earthly and divine insitution, God's vessel. It must necessarily do the practical work of living and surviving in and relating to this world while carrying the message the world desparately needs. Had it and also its cloud of witnesses not thrived to some extent in this world then not only would the Christian faith most likely have not survived long but the enormous amounts of good-the altruism-done by it and its members through the centuires would never have occured as well. Some, whether clergy or laity, while hearing that message have practiced the faith in a more pristine manner uncomtaminated by the world (like a Mary) while others have been more embroiled in the practical or administrive necessities (like a Martha) while others yet have found themselves quite contaminated by worldy values pursing their lusts and greed and self-glory while paying God lip-service, doing great harm to His name in the process.
 
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timothyu

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Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

It must necessarily do the practical work of living and surviving in and relating to this world while carrying the message that it desparately needs.

It's only purpose was to carry forward scripture. Once that was freed from the worldly church's clutches, their raison d'etre was pretty well over.
 
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fhansen

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Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.



It's only purpose was to carry forward scripture. Once that was freed from the worldly church's clutches, their raison d'etre was pretty well over.
Right, carry forward scripture, so that, centuries later, enough people may become literate and educated enough (by virtue of the educational system developed in the west by the Church, I might add) and the printing press was invented they might become bible scholars themselves and then proceed to often disagree on what Scripture means to say.

Assembling the canon of Scripture as well as making determination on the deity of Jesus and the Trinity at Nicea while much of the Christian world was becoming Arian, setting down the doctrines on grace and the absolute need of man for God in order to be saved, were a couple of other ways the faith was preserved intact.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Is faith in God a responsibility that one should fulfill? Or, is faith a gift of grace? Perhaps faith is a matter of both responsibility and grace?

Faith is a gift.
Faithfulness is the responsibility of the person who has been given faith.

Faith is about God's faithfulness to the world, He is the One who gives faith because He loves the world, because He is faithful even in the midst of a faithless creation; and His word to the world is salvation, reconciliation, redemption, and resurrection. From God alone.

Our faithfulness is about our good works, the love which we give to our neighbor out of obedience to God's command. Our faithfulness cannot justify us, but it is what we are called to have in the midst of the world in relation to our neighbors. That our neighbor is treated justly, has food, drink, shelter, warm clothes, and is free to live.

Faith is God's gift, through which He justifies us, by giving us the passively received righteousness of His only-begotten Son. It is a passive righteousness since it is a received righteousness, it is Christ's righteousness.

Our faithfulness is about the active righteousness of our works in the world, loving our neighbor as ourselves. And for this reason, it cannot justify us before God; since our righteousness is always mixed with the leaven of sin. So good works cannot justify us before God, but good works done in faith are pleasing to God--faith renders them pleasing; since these are works born of faith, works which are done out of faith for the sake of love of our neighbor.

God is not the One who needs our good works; but our neighbor absolutely depends on our good works.

So we must always make the distinction between the free gift of faith which justifies us, which the Gospel promises and accomplishes for us by the power and work of God alone through Jesus Christ our Lord, who suffered and died for us. And our response to God's gifts, devoting ourselves to lives of faithful discipleship in good works of love. God is the One who justifies us sinners, it is not us sinners that justify ourselves by our works. Our justification is the gift of God, including the faith through which we are justified; our struggle for justice in the midst of the world is the call of Christ to take up our cross, follow Him.

We can only be disciples because we have been reconciled to God, with faith in us by the working of God, which now calls us outward to good works and love of our neighbor. It is not the good works that justify us before God, but the good works are the response of the person who has been given faith. Thus good works are the product of faithfulness; while our salvation in Christ is the work of God's faithfulness toward us: Grace working through faith.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Clare73

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What you believe about God and are willing to trust and accept God to do, determines your salvation.

I was talking about taking the God given faith given all mature adults and turning that faith toward God to make it a saving faith. Yes, you can have a non-saving faith in God, but it is not the same degree of faith found in a saving faith.
It's not about the degree of faith, it is about the object of faith.
 
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pescador

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All mature adults have been given a gift of faith, which they can use to put their trust in man made objects (idols). They can also direct this faith toward the Creator of the Universe.

Where does it say that all mature adults have been given a gift of faith?

Psalm 37:28, "For the Lord promotes justice, and never abandons his faithful followers.
They are permanently secure, but the children of the wicked are wiped out."

Psalm 78:21-22, "When the Lord heard this, he was furious.
A fire broke out against Jacob,
and his anger flared up against Israel,
because they did not have faith in God,
and did not trust his ability to deliver them."

Psalm 103:17a, "But the Lord continually shows loyal love to his faithful followers"

Psalm 111:5, "He gives food to his faithful followers; he always remembers his covenant."

Psalm 116:15, "The Lord values the lives of his faithful followers."

Psalm 147:11, "The Lord takes delight in his faithful followers, and in those who wait for his loyal love."

Proverbs 20:6, "Many people profess their loyalty, but a faithful person—who can find?"

Proverbs 28:20, "A faithful person will have an abundance of blessings, but the one who hastens to gain riches will not go unpunished."

Isaiah 26:3, "You keep completely safe the people who maintain their faith, for they trust in you."

Isaiah 30:18, "For this reason the Lord is ready to show you mercy; he sits on his throne, ready to have compassion on you. Indeed, the Lord is a just God; all who wait for him in faith will be blessed."

Jeremiah 5:3, "Lord, I know you look for faithfulness. But even when you punish these people, they feel no remorse. Even when you nearly destroy them, they refuse to be corrected. They have become as hardheaded as a rock. They refuse to change their ways."

Hosea 4:1, "Listen to the Lord’s message, you Israelites! For the Lord has a covenant lawsuit against the people of Israel. For there is neither faithfulness nor loyalty in the land, nor do they acknowledge God."

Hosea 6:4, "What am I going to do with you, O Ephraim? What am I going to do with you, O Judah? For your faithfulness is as fleeting as the morning mist; it disappears as quickly as dawn’s dew."

Micah 7:2, "Faithful men have disappeared from the land; there are no godly men left. They all wait in ambush to shed blood; they hunt their own brother with a net."

Matthew 8:26, "But he said to them, “Why are you cowardly, you people of little faith?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it was dead calm."

Mark 4:40, "And he said to them, “Why are you cowardly? Do you still not have faith?

Luke 18:8, "I tell you, he will give them justice speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?

Acts 26:17-18, " I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you to open their eyes so that they turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 1:17, "For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, “The righteous by faith will live.”

Romans 3:3, "What then? If some were unfaithful, their unfaithfulness will not nullify God’s faithfulness, will it?"

Romans 4:14, "For if they become heirs by the law, faith is empty and the promise is nullified."

Romans 9:32, "Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but (as if it were possible) by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone"

Romans 11:20, "Granted! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear!"

Romans 14:23, "But the man who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not do so from faith, and whatever is not from faith is sin."

2 Corinthians 5:7, "for we live by faith, not by sight"

2 Corinthians 13:5, "Put yourselves to the test to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you—unless, indeed, you fail the test!"

Galatians 3:11-12, "Now it is clear no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous one will live by faith.' But the law is not based on faith, but the one who does the works of the law will live by them."

Galatians 3:23, "Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed."

2 Thessalonians 2:13, "But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth."

2 Thessalonians 3:1-2, "Finally, pray for us, brothers and sisters, that the Lord’s message may spread quickly and be honored as in fact it was among you, and that we may be delivered from perverse and evil people. For not all have faith."

1 Timothy 3:7, "And he must be well thought of by those outside the faith, so that he may not fall into disgrace and be caught by the devil’s trap."

1 Tinothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings"

1 Timothy 5:8, "But if someone does not provide for his own, especially his own family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

1 Timothy 6:21a, "By professing it, some have strayed from the faith."

2 Timothy 2:13, "If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, since he cannot deny himself."

2 Timothy 3:8, "And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people—who have warped minds and are disqualified in the faith—also oppose the truth."

Hebrews 4:2, "For we had good news proclaimed to us just as they did. But the message they heard did them no good, since they did not join in with those who heard it in faith."

Hebrews 10:38-39, "But my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, I take no pleasure in him. But we are not among those who shrink back and thus perish, but are among those who have faith and preserve their souls."

Hebrews 11:6, "Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

James 2:1, "My brothers and sisters, do not show prejudice if you possess faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ."

Jude 1:3, "Dear friends, although I have been eager to write to you about our common salvation, I now feel compelled instead to write to encourage you to contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints."

Revelation 14:12, "This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to their faith in Jesus."

And of course there are many, many other verses that show that not all have faith. It is a gift from God.




 
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bling

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Where does it say that all mature adults have been given a gift of faith?

Psalm 37:28, "For the Lord promotes justice, and never abandons his faithful followers.
They are permanently secure, but the children of the wicked are wiped out."

Psalm 78:21-22, "When the Lord heard this, he was furious.
A fire broke out against Jacob,
and his anger flared up against Israel,
because they did not have faith in God,
and did not trust his ability to deliver them."

Psalm 103:17a, "But the Lord continually shows loyal love to his faithful followers"

Psalm 111:5, "He gives food to his faithful followers; he always remembers his covenant."

Psalm 116:15, "The Lord values the lives of his faithful followers."

Psalm 147:11, "The Lord takes delight in his faithful followers, and in those who wait for his loyal love."

Proverbs 20:6, "Many people profess their loyalty, but a faithful person—who can find?"

Proverbs 28:20, "A faithful person will have an abundance of blessings, but the one who hastens to gain riches will not go unpunished."

Isaiah 26:3, "You keep completely safe the people who maintain their faith, for they trust in you."

Isaiah 30:18, "For this reason the Lord is ready to show you mercy; he sits on his throne, ready to have compassion on you. Indeed, the Lord is a just God; all who wait for him in faith will be blessed."

Jeremiah 5:3, "Lord, I know you look for faithfulness. But even when you punish these people, they feel no remorse. Even when you nearly destroy them, they refuse to be corrected. They have become as hardheaded as a rock. They refuse to change their ways."

Hosea 4:1, "Listen to the Lord’s message, you Israelites! For the Lord has a covenant lawsuit against the people of Israel. For there is neither faithfulness nor loyalty in the land, nor do they acknowledge God."

Hosea 6:4, "What am I going to do with you, O Ephraim? What am I going to do with you, O Judah? For your faithfulness is as fleeting as the morning mist; it disappears as quickly as dawn’s dew."

Micah 7:2, "Faithful men have disappeared from the land; there are no godly men left. They all wait in ambush to shed blood; they hunt their own brother with a net."

Matthew 8:26, "But he said to them, “Why are you cowardly, you people of little faith?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it was dead calm."

Mark 4:40, "And he said to them, “Why are you cowardly? Do you still not have faith?

Luke 18:8, "I tell you, he will give them justice speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?

Acts 26:17-18, " I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you to open their eyes so that they turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 1:17, "For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, “The righteous by faith will live.”

Romans 3:3, "What then? If some were unfaithful, their unfaithfulness will not nullify God’s faithfulness, will it?"

Romans 4:14, "For if they become heirs by the law, faith is empty and the promise is nullified."

Romans 9:32, "Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but (as if it were possible) by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone"

Romans 11:20, "Granted! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear!"

Romans 14:23, "But the man who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not do so from faith, and whatever is not from faith is sin."

2 Corinthians 5:7, "for we live by faith, not by sight"

2 Corinthians 13:5, "Put yourselves to the test to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you—unless, indeed, you fail the test!"

Galatians 3:11-12, "Now it is clear no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous one will live by faith.' But the law is not based on faith, but the one who does the works of the law will live by them."

Galatians 3:23, "Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed."

2 Thessalonians 2:13, "But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth."

2 Thessalonians 3:1-2, "Finally, pray for us, brothers and sisters, that the Lord’s message may spread quickly and be honored as in fact it was among you, and that we may be delivered from perverse and evil people. For not all have faith."

1 Timothy 3:7, "And he must be well thought of by those outside the faith, so that he may not fall into disgrace and be caught by the devil’s trap."

1 Tinothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings"

1 Timothy 5:8, "But if someone does not provide for his own, especially his own family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

1 Timothy 6:21a, "By professing it, some have strayed from the faith."

2 Timothy 2:13, "If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, since he cannot deny himself."

2 Timothy 3:8, "And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people—who have warped minds and are disqualified in the faith—also oppose the truth."

Hebrews 4:2, "For we had good news proclaimed to us just as they did. But the message they heard did them no good, since they did not join in with those who heard it in faith."

Hebrews 10:38-39, "But my righteous one will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, I take no pleasure in him. But we are not among those who shrink back and thus perish, but are among those who have faith and preserve their souls."

Hebrews 11:6, "Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

James 2:1, "My brothers and sisters, do not show prejudice if you possess faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ."

Jude 1:3, "Dear friends, although I have been eager to write to you about our common salvation, I now feel compelled instead to write to encourage you to contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints."

Revelation 14:12, "This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to their faith in Jesus."

And of course there are many, many other verses that show that not all have faith. It is a gift from God.



I am not saying: “All mature adults have a “faith” in God or are “faithful” to God.

We are not like animals who are instinctively loyal, but can turn to idol worship, self-trusting (worshipping self), and place our “trust” (faith) in lots of things and people.

This faith (general faith) all mature adults have been gifted with by God and just need to turn it toward God.
 
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