Flat Earth

dóxatotheó · Nov 14, 2021

FLAT EARTHERS PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT BIBLICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY!!!

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
and various verses that insinuate a dome and immovable earth now these are complete misconstruing of scripture to make arguments such as these is all subjective I need true proof the Earth is Flat begin.

d taylor · Nov 14, 2021

Not many flat earth Biblical believers around here. And this has been debated again and again over in the conspiracy section.

HARK! · Nov 14, 2021

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF

ewq1938 · Nov 14, 2021

dóxatotheó said:
FLAT EARTHERS PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT BIBLICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY!!!

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
and various verses that insinuate a dome and immovable earth now these are complete misconstruing of scripture to make arguments such as these is all subjective I need true proof the Earth is Flat begin.

I think the verse "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable." should be understood in the way the other verse is worded: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

In other words, the Earth can spin but not be shaken or overthrown/destroyed.

Let's look at the word "immovable". I'll use the KJV which uses "cannot be moved":

Psa 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

H4131
מוט
môṭ
BDB Definition:
1) to totter, shake, slip
1a) (Qal) to totter, shake, slip
1b) (Niphal) to be shaken, be moved, be overthrown
1c) (Hiphil) to dislodge, let fall, drop
1d) (Hithpael) to be greatly shaken
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1158

The word is in the Niphal tense. This does not forbid the Earth moving itself, but forbids anything else from causing a negative movement more in line with the concept of being overthrown. It's not a reference to any concept of physically spinning or circling a Sun.

The Earth isn't flat. There are no known planets that are flat. There is no specific benefit or need for a flat planet. I'm not even sure if a flat planet could support life and have an atmosphere. The belief in a flat Earth is based on misunderstanding what a non-moveable Earth means, and also in the basic and limited ability to look out at the small amount of world the human eye can see. Land looks flat as far as we can see (except when hills or mountains are close).

Sketcher · Nov 14, 2021

dóxatotheó said:
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

I guess they also disprove that it rests on the backs of four giant elephants upon the back of an even more giant turtle.

Occams Barber · Nov 14, 2021

Sketcher said:
I guess they also disprove that it rests on the backs of four giant elephants upon the back of an even more giant turtle.

I prefer this version

OB

essentialsaltes · Nov 14, 2021

dóxatotheó said:
FLAT EARTHERS PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT BIBLICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY!!!

Eh, one outta two ain't bad.

Ceallaigh · Nov 14, 2021

I've always wondered what difference it makes. Because I don't really care if the Earth is flat or round. Outside of proving "they LIED to us!", I don't see how it matters any.

Job 33:6 · Nov 15, 2021

Isaiah 40:22

It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

d taylor · Nov 15, 2021

Isaiah 40:22 is a verse many christians try and use to say see God is speaking about the planet earth.

But many do not realize that earth in The Bible is not a reference to the planet earth. Science has been so well at convincing people that, that is their home or God's creation.

Earth in The Bible, simply means land, so Isaiah 40:22 is speaking about the circle of land God's sits above. Which was what God created in Genesis 1 a flat circular mass of land, surrounded by the sea/ocean.

ewq1938 · Nov 15, 2021

Isaiah 41:10 said:
Isaiah 40:22

It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

Barnes:

The circle of the earth - Or rather, “above” (על ‛al) the circle of the earth. The word rendered ‘circle’ (חוּג chûg) denotes “a circle, sphere, or arch”; and is applied to the arch or vault of the heavens.

Job 33:6 · Nov 15, 2021

ewq1938 said:
Barnes:

The circle of the earth - Or rather, “above” (על ‛al) the circle of the earth. The word rendered ‘circle’ (חוּג chûg) denotes “a circle, sphere, or arch”; and is applied to the arch or vault of the heavens.

Barnes (not cherry picked):

The circle of the earth - Or rather, "above" (על ‛al) the circle of the earth. The word rendered 'circle' (חוּג chûg) denotes "a circle, sphere, or arch"; and is applied to the arch or vault of the heavens, in Proverbs 8:27; Job 22:14. The phrase 'circle,' or 'circuit of the earth,' here seems to be used in the same sense as the phrase orbis terrarum by the Latins; not as denoting a sphere, or not as implying that the earth was a globe, but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet.

Think about it, what kind of tent or canopy have you ever seen around a sphere? It doesn't make any sense unless in the context of a flat earth.

ewq1938 · Nov 15, 2021

Isaiah 41:10 said:
Barnes (not cherry picked):

The circle of the earth - Or rather, "above" (על ‛al) the circle of the earth. The word rendered 'circle' (חוּג chûg) denotes "a circle, sphere, or arch"; and is applied to the arch or vault of the heavens, in Proverbs 8:27; Job 22:14. The phrase 'circle,' or 'circuit of the earth,' here seems to be used in the same sense as the phrase orbis terrarum by the Latins; not as denoting a sphere, or not as implying that the earth was a globe, but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet.

Obviously Barnes believed the Earth was a globe which was my original point which I could prove in a smaller quote. That would not be what's called "cherry picking" where one wants to make someone appear that they believe in something different than they actually do.

"circuit, or circle" does not contradict or rule out "a circle, sphere, or arch" or "The globular form of the earth"

Barnes knew the Earth was a globe which is indeed correct.

Job 33:6 · Nov 15, 2021

ewq1938 said:
Obviously Barnes believed the Earth was a globe which was my original point which I could prove in a smaller quote. That would not be what's called "cherry picking" where one wants to make someone appear that they believe in something different than they actually do.

"circuit, or circle" does not contradict or rule out "a circle, sphere, or arch" or "The globular form of the earth"

Barnes knew the Earth was a globe which is indeed correct.

Are you denying this text?

"The phrase 'circle,' or 'circuit of the earth,' here seems to be used in the same sense as the phrase orbis terrarum by the Latins; not as denoting a sphere, or not as implying that the earth was a globe, but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet"

It's not about what Barnes believes because Barnes of course wasn't the original author of the book of Isaiah. Barnes lived in modern times, the original author of Isaiah did not.

Job 33:6 · Nov 15, 2021

Isaiah 41:10 said:
Are you denying this text?

"The phrase 'circle,' or 'circuit of the earth,' here seems to be used in the same sense as the phrase orbis terrarum by the Latins; not as denoting a sphere, or not as implying that the earth was a globe, but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet"

The critical line in Hebrew reads (transliterated and omitting vowels): hyshb 'l hwg h'rtz, which my colleague Dr. Robert Suder translates: "the one dwelling on the circle/horizon of the land."14 A survey of Hebrew lexica and theological wordbooks15 yields much information about the key word hwg (chûgh).16 According to K. Seybold, its root appears six times in biblical Hebrew, and it is clear from its usage in context that it has a specifically geometrical meaning, that is, "a circle, as drawn with compasses." In Job 26:10 and Prov. 8:27, chûgh is used with choq, meaning "to inscribe a circle."17 This nominal infinitive form also appears in Job 22:14, where it denotes "the circle of the heavens" (shamayim), and in Isa. 40:22a, where it denotes "the circle of the earth" (haarets). Sir. 43:1218 uses chûgh in describing the rainbow. Finally, in Isa. 44:13, mechûghah, a hapax legomena (a form used only once), means "a compass,"

Does the Bible Teach a Spherical Earth

No one has ever known a tent, or canopy, to rest above a sphere. Tents rest above flat land.

Job 33:6 · Nov 15, 2021

Same root word here, proverbs 8:27

When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Proverbs 8:27 ESV

The face of the deep is flat, that's why it's referred to as face, or across the face of or in front of. He drew a circle in front of the deep.

The language only makes sense as a circle.

Job 33:6 · Nov 15, 2021

I'm not a flat earther, but hands down, when we read the ancient text, it is as clear as day that this is what was described. And it's everywhere throughout scripture.

I just don't know why people feel like scripture, which was written over 3,000 years ago, has to be scientifically accurate. When did science become so influential over religious matters? The very people who deny science of old earth geology are the same people who seem to let science manipulate what scripture says.

Let science be science. Let scripture be scripture, and if they don't align, then let's not try to re write either of them, just join them as they are.

ewq1938 · Nov 15, 2021

Isaiah 41:10 said:
Are you denying this text?

And he explains that when he says, "The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet""

The Earth being called a circle does not support a flat Earth nor does it deny a globe.

ewq1938 · Nov 15, 2021

Gill:

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,.... Or, "the globe (z)" of it; for the earth is spherical or globular: not a flat plain, but round, hung as a ball in the air; here Jehovah sits as the Lord and Sovereign; being the Maker of it, he is above it, orders and directs its motion, and governs all things in it: Kimchi rightly observes, that the heavens are the circle of the earth, which is the centre of them, and around which they are; and so it signifies, that the Lord sits or dwells in the heavens, from whence he beholds the children of men:

Job 33:6 · Nov 15, 2021

ewq1938 said:
And he explains that when he says, "The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet""

The Earth being called a circle does not support a flat Earth nor does it deny a globe.

He clearly says "was then unknown" after referring to globular form.

Let's look at this again:

"but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet"

Flat Earth

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