John's Revelation

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eclipsenow

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Peter was applying the prophecy from Amos 9 to what had already happened and was continuing to happen up to that point, which is that God was including Gentile believers among His people. So, Peter indicated that the timing of "that day" referenced in Amos 9:11 would be the time during which Gentile believers would join Israelite believers as God's people. That time period has been going on for almost 2,000 years.

Absolutely - it's being fulfilled in the 'temple' of Jesus body destroyed and raised again - and in God spreading his Kingdom out into all the nations - the mystery of the ages now unsealed in Christ.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Absolutely - it's being fulfilled in the 'temple' of Jesus body destroyed and raised again - and in God spreading his Kingdom out into all the nations - the mystery of the ages now unsealed in Christ.
Exactly. That is how Peter interpreted Amos 9:11-12, so we should accept that and not try to apply the timing of that prophecy to the future instead. This is yet another example of Premils not wanting to accept how the New Testament authors like Peter interpreted Old Testament prophecies.
 
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keras

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You ignored the proof I gave you against Amil in that post of..
Of course an AMill believer has to ignore any scripture that disproves their belief. But what is worse, is to take plainly stated scripture and make it mean something else.
It's actually blasphemous to insist the Gentiles need a temple. They don't.
This a foolish statement.
We Christians have always built chapels, churchs and cathedrals. To keep the rain off us, if nothing else!
From many OT prophesies and the specific mentions in 2 Thess 2:4 and Rev 11:1, we know there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem.
BEFORE Jesus Returns, as it will be operational at least 7 years by then, Daniel 9:27, and Jesus will Return to Jerusalem and will reign from the Temple. Zechariah 13:16-21
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Of course an AMill believer has to ignore any scripture that disproves their belief. But what is worse, is to take plainly stated scripture and make it mean something else.
You mean like you do with 2 Peter 3:3-13? And 1 Corinthians 15:22-23? And John 5:28-29? And so on.

This a foolish statement.
We Christians have always built chapels, churchs and cathedrals. To keep the rain off us, if nothing else!
From many OT prophesies and the specific mentions in 2 Thess 2:4 and Rev 11:1, we know there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem.
BEFORE Jesus Returns, as it will be operational at least 7 years by then, Daniel 9:27, and Jesus will Return to Jerusalem and will reign from the Temple. Zechariah 13:16-21
You said something about a foolish statement? You might be confused about who is making foolish statements. Do your statements agree with these scriptures?

Acts 7:48 “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: 49 “‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be? 50 Has not my hand made all these things?

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:“I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”
 
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Douggg

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Do you plan to ever give any kind of convincing evidence to show that some future physical temple built by unbelieving Jews could possibly qualify as something Paul would call "the temple of God"? If you can't provide such evidence, then you shouldn't expect your interpretation to be taken seriously.
That's the kind of abstract nowhere arguments that Amil seems to specialize in.
 
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Douggg

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Acts 15:12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles.

Up to this point Peter was talking about how God brought the Gentiles to Himself.
It is James, not Peter.
That is how Peter interpreted Amos 9:11-12, so we should accept that and not try to apply the timing of that prophecy to the future instead.
It was James, not Peter.

Amos 9:11-15 is in the day when God brings back His people of Israel back into the land never to be pulled up again in Amos 9:14-15.
 
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eclipsenow

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It is James, not Peter.

It was James, not Peter.

Amos 9:11-15 is in the day when God brings back His people of Israel back into the land never to be pulled up again in Amos 9:14-15.
Please don't correct him on the pedantic details of who said what but leave out the major arguments in his or my texts - and then just reassert what you want to hear. If you're in this conversation - you've actually got to engage with the material we supplied.

If you are a Christian - whether Jew or Greek - YOU are a fulfilment of Amos 9.
 
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eclipsenow

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That's the kind of abstract nowhere arguments that Amil seems to specialize in.
It's the kind of abstract theology the Lord himself engaged in when he said HE was the temple that would be destroyed and raised up again in 3 days. It's the kind of abstract theology Paul engaged in when he said WE were the temple of God, or that the 'dividing wall of hostility' between Jew and Gentile had been torn down by our unity in Christ. It's the kind of abstract argument the whole book of Hebrews engages in as it methodically explains all the Old Testament types and shadows and how they are all fulfilled in the gospel death and resurrection REALITY of Jesus.
 
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Douggg

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eclipsenow

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And what does James say fulfils that?
If you actually read it in context and see James' logic here - you'll see he's talking about Gentiles becoming Christians as the fulfilment of Amos 9.


The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things
’—
18 things known from long ago.

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

This is the rebuilding of the fallen tent.
Who are the people of God now?
Ethnic Jews - or anyone who bears the name?

The Apostle spiritualised this land promise.
Hebrews does the same in many respects.
It's called Biblical Theology - how the OT and NT fit together - and futurists are often terribly bad at it.
 
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keras

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You mean like you do with 2 Peter 3:3-13? And 1 Corinthians 15:22-23? And John 5:28-29? And so on.
I mean how AMill believers change the 6 times; plainly stated meaning of the thousand years in Rev 20.
You quotes are all verses which we have different opinions about. I have given proofs for the way I understand them. I have yet to see proper proofs for your understanding.
The only true 3rd Temple is Jesus.
For now; yes. But there will be a new Temple built in Jerusalem:
Isaiah 2:2-3 In days to come, the mountain of the Lord's House will be higher than all the hills. All the peoples will stream towards it, saying: Let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the House of the God of Jacob. For the Word of instruction comes from the Lord in Jerusalem.
 
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Douggg

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And what does James say fulfils that?
If you actually read it in context and see James' logic here - you'll see he's talking about Gentiles becoming Christians as the fulfilment of Amos 9.
No James is not saying Gentiles becoming Christians as the fulfillment of Amos 9.

James was making the point that the Gentiles would become Christians before Amos 9:11-15 is fulfilled.

Amos 9:11-15 cannot be fulfliled until God has brought His people of Israel back to the land of Israel from captivity.

In Luke 21:24 the Jews would go into captivity, desolating Jerusalem. That was fulfilled in 70 AD. Beginning the times of the Gentiles.

Then in Luke:25-27 are the verses about Jesus return, after the times of the Gentiles being fulfilled. Which the times of the Gentiles is not only their control over Jerusalem, but also the church age.

Which Acts 15 is about the Gentiles having become Christians.
 
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eclipsenow

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No James is not saying Gentiles becoming Christians as the fulfillment of Amos 9.

James was making the point that the Gentiles would become Christians before Amos 9:11-15 is fulfilled.
Um, where does he say that?
Sorry but he says them becoming Christians IS fulfilling - ongoing - that verse. You're trying to read Amos literally over how the Apostle sees it being fulfilled in an ongoing sense as the Gentiles come in.

Amos 9:11-15 cannot be fulfliled until God has brought His people of Israel back to the land of Israel from captivity.

In Luke 21:24 the Jews would go into captivity, desolating Jerusalem. That was fulfilled in 70 AD. Beginning the times of the Gentiles.
Absolutely irrelevant to what James is saying.

The in Luke:25-27 are the verses about Jesus return, after the time sof the Gentiles being fulfilled. Which times of the Gentiles is not only their control over Jerusalem, but also the church age.
Tangential at best - James is saying Amos is being fulfilled in the gospel going out to all the nations. That's it. No need to attach any other futurist baggage to it - because Acts is all about the age old promise of God to Abraham that his seed would one day 'bless the world'. This is it. In eschatological tension.
 
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eclipsenow

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Ah, so you think we should swap the OT and put that at the BACK of our Bibles, and put the NT at the front, right? Because the end of this book tends to interpret what came before - so we've obviously got our bibles put together all wrong. The OT over-rides and interprets the NT according to you - not the spirit filled Apostles interpreting the Old in the light of Jesus death and resurrection. How silly of me to get that wrong! :doh: What should we do next - build the temple and start sacrificing animals again?
 
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Douggg

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Ah, so you think we should swap the OT and put that at the BACK of our Bibles, and put the NT at the front, right? Because the end of this book tends to interpret what came before - so we've obviously got our bibles put together all wrong. The OT over-rides and interprets the NT according to you - not the spirit filled Apostles interpreting the Old in the light of Jesus death and resurrection. How silly of me to get that wrong! :doh: What should we do next - build the temple and start sacrificing animals again?
Please go back to my post #243, and answer the question I ask you. (I made a typo, which I corrected. I meant to say verse 15.)

Verse 15, what does that mean to you?"
 
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What should we do next - build the temple and start sacrificing animals again?
I will. Zechariah 6:15
God will require it, from us; His priests, Isaiah 56:1-8, Revelation 5:9-10
 
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