Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

Still dunno why Benny Hinn was named after the valley that was later called Gehenna ...

Saint Steven said:

Wow. What the Church won't do to retain subscribers. - lol
Believe or burn. (an offer you can't refuse, from a brand you trust)

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Bbq time I guess, everyone loves a Bbq.

Shrewd Manager said:

Thank you, yes Jesus had already canned the 'eternal bbq pit' idea, but the Roman Catholics felt the show just couldn't go on without that prop, so they made it a 'spectacular'.

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Well, when the church went from being a church into being a government, they needed fear to keep the infidels in line. It's not like everyone was going to receive the Holy Spirit.

I guess it stopped being "the church" at that point though ...

Andrewn said:

The fact of the matter is that only Christians volunteer at the soup kitchen and give regularly to local church charities to help those in need. Mother Theresa was amazed to see that no one helped the "little people" in the streets of Calcutta. Can the non-Godly be motivated to help the "little people"? I doubt it.

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That seems like an overstatement to me. I think there are many non-Christians that give their time and resources to help those in need. Secular organizations that reach out. We all know what a "Care package" is. That's a secular group, as far as I know.

Michael Collum said:

Well, when the church went from being a church into being a government, they needed fear to keep the infidels in line. It's not like everyone was going to receive the Holy Spirit.

I guess it stopped being "the church" at that point though ...

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This is the point at which it becomes 'a system of organised religion.' From what I can tell, it really began quite early on, with teachers treating UR as the 'meat' and giving the catachumen the 'milk' of ECT, lest they take it the wrong way and 'continue to sin', only revealing UR to them later on. Unfortunately this surfeit of prudence belied a lack of faith in God and thy neighbour, and the tail began to wag the dog at a certain point.

Andrewn said:

Beside the quotations that you and I have presented so far, there are many other passages in which Isaac of Nineveh expresses his belief in UR:

The Congress Catches Fire!

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Isaac had strange beliefs as the Church understood him for having strange positions

Saint Steven said:

Wow, "jumped the shark"; that's a most curious phrase. Not familiar.

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It originated from the Fonz jumping a shark on Happy Days.

Jumping the shark - Wikipedia.

Andrewn said:

The fact of the matter is that only Christians volunteer at the soup kitchen and give regularly to local church charities to help those in need. Mother Theresa was amazed to see that no one helped the "little people" in the streets of Calcutta. Can the non-Godly be motivated to help the "little people"? I doubt it.

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I'm not so sure that only Christians help the needy. I think plenty of atheists have a humanistic sense of morality that leads them to be philanthropic.

MMXX said:

It originated from the Fonz jumping a shark on Happy Days.

Jumping the shark - Wikipedia.

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Perhaps the threat of ECT was a solution to people falling asleep during Latin Mass. Zzzz... A real wake up call. Listen up, or else.

But the show really went downhill fast. - lol

Luther outlined the transgressions and nailed it. (literally)
Talk about a harsh review. Yikes! - lol

Saint Steven said:

Perhaps the threat of ECT was a solution to people falling asleep during Latin Mass. Zzzz... A real wake up call. Listen up, or else.

But the show really went downhill fast. - lol

Luther outlined the transgressions and nailed it. (literally)
Talk about a harsh review. Yikes! - lol

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But the reformers did not get rid of "hell" and ECT, did they?

Andrewn said:

It is clear that evil people will go to eternal punishment. Now plz look at the meaning of eternal in post #1970.

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With all due respect, why does anyone need to look up or find the meaning of "Eternal"????

You see, for the Universalism teaching to be acceptable....the meaning of words has to be changed.
I have heard many times about this “aeons after aeons” from those who reject eternal toements.

But just so that you know, having done a little work in the Greek over the years, The Greek word translated “eternal” is also translated “everlasting”. It appears a total of 71 times in the New Testament, both in reference to punishment for unbelievers and life for believers. It always means “without end, never to cease.”

Just as believers receive eternal (everlasting) life, unbelievers receive eternal (everlasting) torment. If you change the meaning for one group, you have to change it for the other as well, since the Bible uses same word in reference to both.

As for 1 Tim.4:10 which says .........
“God is the Savior of all men, and specially of them that believe,” it means the Lord’s death made salvation available for all men, but it doesn’t mean all men will be saved.

While salvation will be granted without prejudice to everyone who asks (Matt. 7:7-8) those who don’t ask for it will not receive it.

Andrewn said:

How is death defeated when people are subjected to the 2nd death?

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Your arguement is that the second death is annihilationism … that is, a person who experiences the second death will no longer exist in eternity. They say that at the first death, people die physically, and then at the second death they die spiritually, which means that they cease to exist.

This view would be possible if “death” means “non-existent.” But it doesn’t.
The Greek word "DEAD" never means "NON-EXISTANT". in the Scripture.

Instead, “death” means to be separated from the plan and purposes of God.

When something dies, it no longer functions the way God intended. This is true of physical bodies, sexual reproductive organs, interpersonal relationships, and faith.

Study to show thy self approved, a workman of God.

Andrewn said:

You seem to be a Calvinist and discussions with Calvinists are generally pointless. If you're interested in seeing why all Christianity rejects, except Calvinists, reject your point of view, you will find a lot of articles online explaining how the passages you quote should be interpreted. You can also read the following article:

Conditional preservation of the saints - Wikipedia

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NO. I am NOT a Calvinist and you say that with some bitterness.

You should know that No man did more to point the church back to God's inerrant Word than John Calvin.
Now YOU may not like what he said but what he said was from the Scriptures which is why some reject him.

Having accepted Scripture's claims concerning itself, Calvin laboured, as few others have, to make this revelation known to his own hearers and, through his published writings, to generations that succeeded him. The church owes a great debt to Calvin the theologian, commentator, and preacher. This brief study is an indication of that debt to this 'man of God's Word'. Its aim is to encourage Christians to read and to hear Scripture as God's true Word to helpless sinners.

I am a Bible believing Christian and as such I reject Universalism and Annialationism and that is why you will reject me as well.

MMXX said:

On one hand you're saying there's only going to be perpetual light in the city, but on the other hand you're saying the glory of God will light the world.

And again, as far as "forever and forever" goes, how can there be infinity plus infinity? If what's being said in Revelation supposed to be taken literally on a scientific type basis, things like there's no day and night, but they'll be tormented day and night doesn't really come together. Likewise that's true of infinity plus infinity. However, perhaps these things being said are actually figurative rather than literal. Symbolic rather than scientific.

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No.

I am not saying that.

God said in Rev. 21:23.........
"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

Eternity is a concept that is temporal in nature and applies to things that are timeless.
Infinity is a concept that applies to things that cannot be counted or measured.

Religion and philosophy make heavy use of the concept of eternity whereas infinity is used more often in math and physics and when the two are mixed there will be confusion.

Major1 said:

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Here is a link to 2 back to back posts, this thread, where I show that the Greek word "aionios" is defined/described as "eternal,""everlasting,""for ever." etc.
[post #1803]
In twenty four [24] of the verses, at this link, aion and aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
“aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 5 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T.
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”

Hmm said:

Well, this is clearly your favourite definition of aionios etc., which you copy and paste frequently. It's been refuted in this and other threads many times so I see little point in doing so again. But, honestly, I admire your tenacity.

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Total nonsense. Not only has my post not been refuted, not nobody, not no how has even tried to refute it. Since you make the claim perhaps you could point me to one post where someone has tried. I have been on this forum almost daily and I can't recall a single one. And I don't mean some misguided soul making the standard "Neener, neener, neener you're wrong, I'm right! Am too! Nuh huh!" argument.
Just for giggles. Refute these two verses Jn 3:15-16.
In these 2 verses Jesus paralleled aionios life with ""should not perish," twice. Unless Jesus was a liar "aionios life" equates to "should not perish."
My link is to two previous posts, this thread, where I review 22 more NT verse which define/describe "aionios" as "eternal.""everlasting,""for ever," etc.
My [Post #1803] Good luck.

Hmm said:

Okay, have a good evening DA

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Hey wait a minute amigo. You're supposed to show me where my "aionios" post has "been refuted in this and other threads many times." All I am asking for is one time.

Hmm said:

Well, this is clearly your favourite definition of aionios etc., which you copy and paste frequently. It's been refuted in this and other threads many times so I see little point in doing so again. But, honestly, I admire your tenacity

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When someone is right.....stick to it!

The believer does not have eonian life. The believer has ETERNAL LIFE, and he has it NOW.

The Greek word 'Aionion' is properly translated as 'ETERNAL'.

Syllogism: God has eternal life. Jesus Christ is God. Therefore, Jesus Christ has eternal life.

Scripture: 1 John 1:2 .....
'and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life (aionion zoen) , which was with the Father and was manifested to us-- ".
The incarnation of Jesus Christ is in view here.

He is also the source of life.

1 John 5:11 ....
'And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life (aionion zoen), and this life is in His Son.

Jesus Christ has eternal (aionion) life.
The believer has the same eternal life which is in Jesus Christ.

Syllogism:
The believer has the same life which is in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ has eternal (aionion) life. Therefore, the believer has eternal life. Jesus Christ is God. He does not have 'eonion' or 'age during life'. Jesus Christ has eternal life.

The believer has the same eternal life that Jesus Christ has.

1 John 5:12.....
'He who has the Son has the life (eternal life, not age-during life); he who does not have the Son does not (ouk) have the life."

As God, Jesus Christ has always existed. There never was a time when He did not exist. His life is eternal. Now, the believer receives this eternal life at the very moment he believes in Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:13.....
'These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have (echete - Present Active Indicative) eternal life."

That is, the tense is present (describing action taking place now), the voice is active (meaning that the verb's subject is acting and not being acted upon), and the mood is indicative (which demonstrates true reality).

If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation, you have eternal life, and you are in possession of it NOW!!!. RIGHT NOW!!! Because Jesus Christ has eternal life and not 'age during life', 'Aionion' is properly translated 'ETERNAL.' And the believer has that same eternal life as of the moment of faith in Christ Jesus. There is no such thing as 'eonian life' which is to be replaced by something else when the ages end.

Read more: Is the Greek word Aionion properly translated as Eternal in the Bible? Yes!!! (incarnation, testimony) - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum

Der Alte said:

Hey wait a minute amigo. You're supposed to show me where my "aionios" post has "been refuted in this and other threads many times." All I am asking for is one time.

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You are doing an outstanding Job!