Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

Hmm said:

If it is a permanent state, i.e. a condition you can't get out of even if you want to, why do you say that your church does not teach eternal damnation?

Click to expand...

Hmm said:

Does your church teach that this state of "withdrawing within ourselves" is a permanent one or can we change our mind as we experience God more and more until we finally also "reach out and be consumed and healed"?

Click to expand...

He [God] has a single ranking of complete and impassible love towards everyone, and He has a single caring concern for those who have fallen, just as much as for those who have not fallen. And it is clear that he does not abandon them the moment they fall, and that demons will not remain in their demonic state, and sinners (will not remain) in their sins; rather, He is going to bring them to a single equal state of perfection in relationship to His own Being – in a (state) in which the holy angels are now, in perfection of love and a passionless minds…No part belonging to any single one of (all) rational beings will be lost, as far as God is concerned, in the preparation of that supernatural Kingdom which is prepared for all worlds.

Click to expand...

dóxatotheó said:

If all are saved than God desired for them to be saved wouldn't matter and the election wouldst be for those who are in Christ but for those who dont follow Christ.

Click to expand...

MMXX said:

Everyone who subscribes to a particular doctrine, says that about those who don't subscribe to it.

Those ignorant fools go against the Word of God because they don't believe the doctrine I was taught to believe.

Click to expand...

Hmm said:

God's desire that all will be saved doesn't matter?

Click to expand...

Hmm said:

Who is your saint?

Click to expand...

MMXX said:

What happened to the place where Jesus was teaching 40 years (a generation) later? Fiery bloody annihilation. Death and destruction. A holocaust. Read what Jesus said about Gehenna in light of that. Compare it to what the OT prophets wrote before the Babylonian invasion took place.

Click to expand...

MMXX said:

Likewise they hear it from the Hell yes! crowd.

Click to expand...

Hmm said:

The whole point was she did believe it existed and these were the consequences for her.

Click to expand...

Andrewn said:

You capitalized the "W" which means that you're talking about Christ. You cannot accuse people of not accepting Christ is these Forums. It is not only inappropriate, it is also against Forum rules. You can be reported for the claim that someone is not a Christian.

But if you were talking about the Bible, the word of God with a small "w" then you really mean that they simply cannot accept your interpretation of the Bible.

You should be more precise in your expression.

Click to expand...

MMXX said:

It's theorized that the ones who follow Christ in this age are the first fruits.

A pet theory of mine is that perhaps the elect is a reference to those called by God like Abraham, Moses, David and so on. The main people in the Bible.

Click to expand...

dóxatotheó said:

Salvation is selective and specific. Let’s examine the selective nature of salvation. Salvation is specifically limited to:

those who are the elect (Matthew 24:31; 2 Timothy 2:10, 19; Titus 1:1-3; 1 Peter 1:1-3), chosen since before the beginning of the world (Ephesians 1:3-12), and predestined for salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; 1 Peter 2:7-9)
those who are chosen (Matthew 22:14; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4-10; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-17; James 2:5; Revelation 17:14)
those who are appointed to eternal life (Acts 13:48)
those who heard the word of salvation and believed (John 5:24; Ephesians 1:13)
those who believe (Luke 18:14; John 1:11-13; 3:16, 18; 36; 11:25-26; Romans 10:11; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 1 Timothy 1:16; Hebrews 3:19; 6:12; 11:1-40; 1 Peter 1:5; 2:6; 1 John 5:5; etc.)
those on whom God has mercy (Romans 9:18)
those whom God calls to himself (Acts 2:39; Romans 1:5-6; 8:30; Hebrews 9:15; Revelation 17:14)
those to whom it is granted by God (2 Peter 1:3-4)
those who are known by Jesus (Matthew 7:23)
those for whom a place has been prepared (Matthew 20:23; Mark 10:40)
those to whom the truth is revealed (Luke 10:21-24)
those who receive Him (John 1:12; Revelation 3:20-21)
those who are born again (John 3:4-8; 1 Peter 1:3)
those to whom Jesus gives life (John 5:21)
those whose eyes have not been blinded by God (John 12:39-40) or their minds hardened (2 Corinthians 3:14-18)
those who do not reject salvation (Hebrews 2:3) or harden their hearts (Hebrews 3:7-15)
those who were given to Jesus (John 17:2, 6, 9, 10, 24)
those who call on the name of the Lord (Acts 2:21; Romans10:13)
those who received the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:11)
those who persevere in the faith (Matthew 10:22; Romans 11:17-24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-2; Colossians 1:21-23; 2 Timothy 2:12; Hebrews 3:14)
those whose names are in the “book of life” (Philippians 4:3; Revelation 13:8-9; 17:8; 20:15)
those who are not deluded and thus condemned (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
those who confess Jesus (Romans 10:9; 1 John 4:15)
those who have the Son (1 John 5:10-12)
those who do not deny Christ and are thus not designated for condemnation (Jude 4,5)
those who are faithful (Revelation 2:10; 17:14)
those who repent (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30-31; 1 John 1:9)
those who love God (Deuteronomy 7:9; Romans 8:28; James 2:5)
those who love others (1 Corinthians 13:2-3; Galatians 5:6; 1 John 4:12, 20, 21)
those who enter through the narrow way (Matthew 7:12-14)
those who do not deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of truth (Hebrews 10:26-27)
those who have not rejected God the Father (Romans 1:18-32), God the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31-32; Mark 3:28-29), or God the Son (John 3:36; John 8:24)
those who are obedient (Deuteronomy 7:9; 9:16-18; Nehemiah 1:5; Psalm 25:10; 103; 11-19; Ezekiel 18; Matthew 5:19-20; 6:19-21; 7:16-27; 10:38; 12:36-37; 12:50; 13:36-43; 16:25-27; 18:23-35; 25:31-46; Mark 8:34-35; Luke 6:46-49; 10:25-37; 11:28; John 5:29; 8:51; 14:21-24; 15:1-6, 10, 14; Acts 5:32; Romans 1:18; 2:1-16; 6:1-23; 8:13; 14:17-18; 1 Corinthians 3:13-15; 6:9-11; 7:19; 9:24-27; Galatians 5:19-21; 6:7-9; Ephesians 5:3-14; Philippians 2:12-18; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; 2:10; 1 Timothy 4:16; 2 Timothy 2:21-22; Titus 1:16; Hebrews 3:6-18; 10:36; 12:14-17; James 1:12-15; 2:17-26; 1 Peter 1:22; 2:1-2; 1 Peter 4:17-19; 2 Peter 1:10-11; 1 John 1:6-7; 1 John 2:29; 3:16-24; 5:2-3; Jude 1:7; Revelation 2:2-11; 3:8-12; 21:5-9, 27; 22:14-19)
God isn't contradictory hes simple and incomprehensible.
But it already is even with condemnation.
Eternal damnation isn't what my church teaches Heaven and hell are not understood as physical places in which we are sentenced for all eternity, but an actual state of being when we encounter the Almighty God of Consuming Fire. God’s loving and fiery presence either causes us to withdraw within ourselves or to reach out and be consumed and healed.

Because its heresy and leads people astray and false hope which the bible doesn't defend.
God is a god of love (John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; etc.). But God hates sin and indeed throughout the Bible we see that God is also a god of wrath (Psalm 2:4-6, 5:4-6, 7:11, 11:5, 89:46, 90:7-11; Proverbs 6:16-19, 12:22, Ezekiel 36:16-21; Hosea 5:10, 9:15; Nahum 1:2-6; Zephaniah 3:6-8; Malachi 1:3; Matthew 21:40-45, 23:29-39; John 3:36; Romans 1:18, 9:22-24; 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12; Hebrews 10:30-31). He is not simply a grandfatherly figure in the sky that gives out candy. While some may hope for a different God than the God of the Bible, God’s nature is one of justice. We must infer that for God to forgive, without repentance and faith before God Almighty, the heinous crimes of Hitler or ISIS, or serial rapists, or child molesters—is contrary to God’s nature—and indeed, contrary to common sense.
I dont think thats the case people who holds that position probably assert that works in spirit is proof of grace in Christ.

Not even everyone who calls Jesus “Lord” enters the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21; James 2:19).Also God said that salvation are for his elect.
Thats pride anyone who says that are equal to the pharsees.

not a group all who arent Gods elect wont see salvation.

I agree pride is wrong but to say all will be saved would diminish the teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament in general.


Not seeing salvation doesn't make God a monster. Quite the opposite.

Click to expand...

Hmm said:

Agreed. I did take @Major1 as meaning Christ because of the "W" but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't report him because I suspect he's not aware of the distinction. If he did intend to say that Christian universalists don't believe in Christ though then he ought to have the courage to reply clearly saying so.

Click to expand...

2PhiloVoid said:

I wouldn't qualify U.R. as heresy so much as I would hear-say. And 'ecumenical, inclusivist me' thinks that those in the U.R. camp are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, even if I might disagree with them about the overall extent to which people will be ultimately 'saved.'

Click to expand...

dóxatotheó said:

I wasn't insulting you I basically was saying if they position is biblical than it would only break logic I apologise.

Click to expand...

Hmm said:

The quote you gave of him e.g. "No part belonging to any single one of (all) rational beings will be lost, as far as God is concerned, in the preparation of that supernatural Kingdom which is prepared for all worlds" seems in perfect accord with universalism so I'm not sure why you cite him in favour of infernalism.

Click to expand...