Schools providing sexually explicit material to minors

Do you support the dissemination of sexually explicit materials to minor children?

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Paulos23

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This is the reasoning that got us away from "Just say no to drugs", and more toward, "Here's a clean needle so you can do your Heroine 'safely'".
There is a reason "Just say no to drugs" didn't work. And it didn't work by not acknowledging the reasons people take drugs and trying to fix those issues or at least work with people on those issues.

Taking the hard stance on drugs didn't lower drug use and caused more suffering. Same with sex, taking the hard stance on it doesn't lower sex rates just causes more suffering and unwanted pregnancies.

When the hard stance doesn't work, you have to try something else.
 
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trunks2k

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This is the reasoning that got us away from "Just say no to drugs", and more toward, "Here's a clean needle so you can do your Heroine 'safely'".
and yet "just say no" was a dismal failure and needle exchange programs were very effective.
 
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Aldebaran

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There is a reason "Just say no to drugs" didn't work. And it didn't work by not acknowledging the reasons people take drugs and trying to fix those issues or at least work with people on those issues.

Taking the hard stance on drugs didn't lower drug use and caused more suffering. Same with sex, taking the hard stance on it doesn't lower sex rates just causes more suffering and unwanted pregnancies.

When the hard stance doesn't work, you have to try something else.

How does not doing drugs cause more suffering than actually doing drugs? And how does not having sex unwanted pregnancies?
 
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Aldebaran

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and yet "just say no" was a dismal failure and needle exchange programs were very effective.

Does exchanging needles take the place of doing drugs?
 
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trunks2k

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How does not doing drugs cause more suffering than actually doing drugs? And how does not having sex unwanted pregnancies?
You are operating under the assumption that "Just say no" and "Don't have sex!" means people are going to do drugs or have sex less. That doesn't seem to be the case. "Just say no" was a failure (including programs like DARE). "Just Don't have sex!" also doesn't work.
 
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trunks2k

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Does exchanging needles take the place of doing drugs?
No, that's not the intent. The intent of needle exchange programs is to minimize the risk of spreading diseases that are passed via shared needles (like HIV and Hep-C). Studies have shown that needle exchange programs are effective at this goal while not causing an increase in drug usage. IIRC other studies have shown it also helps people to get treatment for addiction because it puts providers in more direct contact with users, where they can push for treatment.

ETA: from my previous link from the CDC:

Syringe services programs (SSPs) are proven and effective community-based prevention programs that can provide a range of services, including access to and disposal of sterile syringes and injection equipment, vaccination, testing, and linkage to infectious disease care and substance use treatment. 8, 11 SSPs reach people who inject drugs, an often hidden and marginalized population. Nearly 30 years of research has shown that comprehensive SSPs are safe, effective, and cost-saving, do not increase illegal drug use or crime, and play an important role in reducing the transmission of viral hepatitis, HIV and other infections.11,12 Research shows that new users of SSPs are five times more likely to enter drug treatment and about three times more likely to stop using drugs than those who don’t use the programs.
 
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Paulos23

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How does not doing drugs cause more suffering than actually doing drugs? And how does not having sex unwanted pregnancies?
And here you are missing the point. The point is, people still take drugs and had no clear way off of drugs until needle exchange programs brought them in so they could find out about programs to get off drugs.

You can tell people to say no all you want, that didn't stop the pain pill epidemic or marijuana or cocaine or etc. Figuring out why people are taking these drugs and dealing with them helps more. Cutting them off will just keep them on the drugs.

Same with sex, hormones are going to drive people to have sex, period. How they have sex and how safe is all dependent on education and the tools they have. If they just get told, "Don't have sex." we know that doesn't work. About 50% will still have sex, the same in the crowd that gets sex ed. It doesn't matter if they get sex ed or not, they will still have sex. So it is better, IMHO, that they get sex ed to reduce pregnancies.

I understand this will not get through to you, you are a black and white kind of guy. You think everyone should stick to the straight and narrow path. But when we have studies that show people can't do that, and that they do better when you have many paths that they could choose from going roughly the same direction, things can get better for them and everyone else.
 
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trunks2k

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About 50% will still have sex, the same in the crowd that gets sex ed.

IIRC, comprehensive sex ed programs saw teens having sex at roughly the same rate as those in abstinence only ed, but the teens in the comprehensive programs tend to wait longer until having sex (i.e. the portion of teens under 18 that have had sex are roughly the same in both groups, but the average of the first time is older in the sex ed group) and are much more likely to use protection when they do have sex.

"Just tell them not to do it" simply doesn't work and is arguably counter productive in the immediate goal of outright preventing the behavior. This is true in particular when you are talking about things that have a biological component, like sex and drug addiction.
 
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hislegacy

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And as noted earlier the book she is holding is "Lawn Boy" by Jonathan Evison. Which is a very adult book. However the book available in the public school library was "Lawn Boy by Gary Paulson which is a book about a 12 year old boy who gets a gift of an old lawnmower and starts his own business mowing laws. THe books may have the same title but are very different works.

She showed the picture from the book of a fourth grader performing oral sex on a man.

you think that is ok?
 
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Yttrium

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She showed the picture from the book of a fourth grader performing oral sex on a man.

you think that is ok?

Of course it's not okay. She shouldn't have showed them a picture from the wrong book. Should have gotten her books straight. The book that was in the library didn't have any pictures like that.

Now, if there was a book with a picture like that in the library, that wouldn't be okay either.
 
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hislegacy

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Of course it's not okay. She shouldn't have showed them a picture from the wrong book. Should have gotten her books straight. The book that was in the library didn't have any pictures like that.

Now, if there was a book with a picture like that in the library, that wouldn't be okay either.

It was NOT the wrong book - the book was the one she got from their library.

You can repeat that as much as you want - but she was holding the library book in her hands.
 
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Yttrium

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It was NOT the wrong book - the book was the one she got from their library.

You can repeat that as much as you want - but she was holding the library book in her hands.

If she got it from their library (and I'm highly skeptical of that), then yes it was not a book that should be in the library.
 
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TLK Valentine

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You are operating under the assumption that "Just say no" and "Don't have sex!" means people are going to do drugs or have sex less. That doesn't seem to be the case. "Just say no" was a failure (including programs like DARE). "Just Don't have sex!" also doesn't work.

I'm not sure whether or not it works is the point -- I think it's more about looking busy and going through the motions with as little actual effort as possible.
 
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RDKirk

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There is a reason "Just say no to drugs" didn't work. And it didn't work by not acknowledging the reasons people take drugs and trying to fix those issues or at least work with people on those issues.

So does sexual education--particularly dispensing condoms-- acknowledge the reason why kids have early sex and try to fix those issues?

Because I haven't heard any responsible people argue that early sex is beneficial...particularly not for young girls.
 
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SilverBear

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It was NOT the wrong book - the book was the one she got from their library.

You can repeat that as much as you want - but she was holding the library book in her hands.
the first problem with this claim is that only students are allowed to check out books from any FairFax Va public school Ref: Fox News Nov 8 2021

And did you know you can access the library catalog of any of the Fairfax county libraries including the schools' libraries and you will find that LawnBoy by Jonathan Evison is not in any of the school libraries in Farifax Va. but LawnBoy by Gary Paulson is in the schools.
 
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SilverBear

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So does sexual education--particularly dispensing condoms-- acknowledge the reason why kids have early sex and try to fix those issues?

Because I haven't heard any responsible people argue that early sex is beneficial...particularly not for young girls.
I cited a couple such studies...i can cite more if youlike
 
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