Homosexuality and ordained ministry

Michie

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If Jo Biden gets denied for being pro-choice, every Catholic should be denied. It's only fair.
No it is fair. If a Catholic sins publicly and without repentance. Fight poor nun’s that refuse to go against their faith, that is completely different. It’s different rules for Biden and other public figures as compared to the average lay Catholic. It publicly goes against Church teaching and it’s wrong. Do not defend Biden publicly going against the Faith here and taking communion here. It’s not allowed. He cannot say to be proclaimed a good Catholic supposedly and go against what Catholicism teaches. That is called being a hypocrite.
 
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Isn't it up to all Catholics to honor the Lord? If you seny a politician because they are pro-choice, every pro-choice parishioner should be denied.

every pro-innocent child murder supporter should be denied, yes. Whether politician or not. The problem is that a politician’s position is publicly know, not everyone’s position is known, so it’s hard to deny someone
I would not be against the priest saying during the homily that everyone that uses contraception should abstain from the Eucharist until repentance and confession
 
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chevyontheriver

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Isn't it up to all Catholics to honor the Lord? If you seny a politician because they are pro-choice, every pro-choice parishioner should be denied.
Maybe. But also adulterers and gossipers. Who is an open adulterer? Only a few will be open about it. Maybe gossipers are more obvious. We think sin is no big deal. We feel the need to protect the notorious sinners from unequal treatment. We put the souls of people at risk by giving them a pass on sin.

And this isn't a political thing with me. I think I would be of exactly the same opinion if Rudy Guiliani had ever made it to be president. This isn't something that is a tool to bash Democrats. It has to do with the integrity and coherence of the faith, something that seems lacking if Biden gets away with claiming he is a good Catholic who should be allowed to continue receiving the Eucharist. None of us is worthy, but the continuing of this scandal means sin is just fine for everybody.
 
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rturner76

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We put the souls of people at risk by giving them a pass on sin.
Also by not letting anyone get a pass. If they want to make the public declaration that Joe Biden won't be getting the Eucharist because of his political views, that has now become something they are enforcing. I mean what is it was a State senator, are they high profile enough to deny them or a city council member. See what I mean? They shouldn't pick and choose who they will enforce the rules on.

Soon people will be reporting on each other's sins and ecclesiastic trials start etc. I think we need to counsel those people on making the right choice and hope that they come to repentance. I don't think we want to run sinners out of the church or publicly shame them.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Also by not letting anyone get a pass. If they want to make the public declaration that Joe Biden won't be getting the Eucharist because of his political views, that has now become something they are enforcing. I mean what is it was a State senator, are they high profile enough to deny them or a city council member. See what I mean? They shouldn't pick and choose who they will enforce the rules on.

Soon people will be reporting on each other's sins and ecclesiastic trials start etc. I think we need to counsel those people on making the right choice and hope that they come to repentance. I don't think we want to run sinners out of the church or publicly shame them.
Does Joe Biden wish to repent? That should be encouraged, privately at first. But at some point you have to wonder if he wants to repent at all or if he just wants to continue on as a good pro-abortion Catholic. If that isn't an oxymoron, something needs to be done about it.
 
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rturner76

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Does Joe Biden wish to repent? That should be encouraged, privately at first. But at some point you have to wonder if he wants to repent at all or if he just wants to continue on as a good pro-abortion Catholic. If that isn't an oxymoron, something needs to be done about it.
What I'm getting at is why does something need to be done about Joe Biden but not other Catholics who are in sin? Personally, I could care less if Joe Biden gets his communion, I just think publicly shaming people should be done in every congregation if we are going to blast people on TV. It's a private matter between him and his Priest.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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True but I think if you put the microscope on one member you need to do it with all members. The political leaders are speaking for a secular government that must be held to secular standards in the application of the law of the land. They don't speak in the name of the Church.



No , Joe Biden is president of the United States and he has publicly chosen to support the killing of Gods children in the womb. he tries to use as cover that all though he doesn't personally support abortion that he supports the right to choose. That doesn't work . That's called a copout. so if he publicly endorses abortion then he should be publicly held accountable. And if the church doesn't hold him accountable then the church will certainly be held accountable By the Lord.
 
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chevyontheriver

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What I'm getting at is why does something need to be done about Joe Biden but not other Catholics who are in sin? Personally, I could care less if Joe Biden gets his communion, I just think publicly shaming people should be done in every congregation if we are going to blast people on TV. It's a private matter between him and his Priest.
But in Joe Biden's case it is NOT merely a private matter. He had a press conference telling the world that he is a good Catholic. And that the pope endorsed it all. That was a very political statement. And he is the most pro-abortion president ever, way more than even Obama. It's not just that he holds a private view either, but he wants to change America in a pro-abortion direction. It's all very public.

If I need pastoral correction, and my pastor challenges me, it's not even going to make the news. Because I'm a nobody. I should be corrected if my pastor finds out I am in serious sin. But I doubt it would ever happen because bishops and priests don't want to ruffle any feathers with me or with Joe Biden or with anybody. Better in their minds if we are allowed to do just what we want whether that sends us to hell or not. Not very pastoral.
 
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rturner76

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No , Joe Biden is president of the United States and he has publicly chosen to support the killing of Gods children in the womb. he tries to use as cover that all though he doesn't personally support abortion that he supports the right to choose. That doesn't work . That's called a copout. so if he publicly endorses abortion then he should be publicly held accountable. And if the church doesn't hold him accountable then the church will certainly be held accountable By the Lord.
So if you are a public figure, the church should enforce the rules but not every day Parishioners? Do parishioners get a free pass on sin as long as their sin is hidden?
 
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rturner76

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priests don't want to ruffle any feathers with me or with Joe Biden or with anybody.
Exactly. They are not going to publicly rebuke Joe Biden nor an everyday parishioner. If they rebuke on TV, they need to rebuke in the pulpit. But yes, they don't challenge sinners to keep those butts in the pews and get those tithes. It's bad for business to turn people away.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Exactly. They are not going to publicly rebuke Joe Biden nor an everyday parishioner. If they rebuke on TV, they need to rebuke in the pulpit. But yes, they don't challenge sinners to keep those butts in the pews and get those tithes. It's bad for business to turn people away.
On this we agree. Keep 'em coming. Keep 'em paying. Keep 'em happy.
 
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chevyontheriver

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So if you are a public figure, the church should enforce the rules but not every day Parishioners? Do parishioners get a free pass on sin as long as their sin is hidden?
Well, a hidden sin is ... hidden.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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So if you are a public figure, the church should enforce the rules but not every day Parishioners? Do parishioners get a free pass on sin as long as their sin is hidden?



If your a parishioner and openly support abortion than yes you should be refused communion. And if your the president of the free world and control the laws that allow abortion and in addition pretend your a good Catholic than yes the standard should be higher.
 
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What I'm getting at is why does something need to be done about Joe Biden but not other Catholics who are in sin? Personally, I could care less if Joe Biden gets his communion, I just think publicly shaming people should be done in every congregation if we are going to blast people on TV. It's a private matter between him and his Priest.

When we endeavor in a task, we do what we CAN do. When sin is plainly seen, it must be called what it is and treated accordingly.
Everyday parishioners do not get a pass per se, it if their sin is found out, they should be denied.
I was denied communion because I was divorced and remarried, and I could not be allowed to receive it again until not only was my marriage annulled, but my non-Catholic wife had to go through the annulment process for her previous marriage. She was not happy about that, but did it for me. That process took five years, and was worth everything.
The honor of the Lord’s body and blood deserves no less. My marriage now has a radical sanation, which means it is blessed valid and consummated. No authority on earth can dissolve it, not even the Pope.
Lay Catholics can and should be denied communion, and it is very good for their souls, as I will personally testify
 
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That's what I'm saying. Not just if you are famous.


Thanks for clarifying. I would say that we are in agreement; it looked as if you implied that Joe Biden should get a pass because we can't or won't deny others. I am glad that is not the case.
Anyone that publicly supports sin, or if priest knows through the secrets of confession that continues in sin, should be denied communion for the good of their soul.
The priest can do that while maintaining the secrets of the confessional. In the Catholic Church we do not practice forced public shaming, the confessional is sacrosanct.

The major problem in the Church today, is the lack of education, aka catechesis, on the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and teaching on calumny

Calumny, Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., writes in his Modern Catholic Dictionary, is "Injuring another person's good name by lying." As the Catechism of the Catholic Church notes (para. 2479), both calumny and the related sin of detraction (revealing another's sins to a third party who does not need to know about them)

destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.
While detraction can cause great damage through telling the truth, calumny is, if anything, even worse, because it involves the telling of a lie (or of something that one believes to be a lie). You can engage in detraction without intending to do damage to the person you are discussing, but calumny is by definition malicious. The point of calumny is, at the very least, to lower the opinion one person has of another person.
 
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