Why are Catholic countries resisting the LGBT agenda?

MikeinSeattle

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Ortodox countries (Russia, Serbia...) are practically all against LGBT, so these, together with muslim, buddhist and hinduist countries, are the most prominent.

This is true. However the purpose of my post was to look at and discuss Catholic nations specifically.

Most of the earlier adaptors of marriage equality are historically Catholic countries, including the first country to legalize it via popular referendum, Ireland.

I looked this up about Ireland and found the articles that claim this. But whatever this vote was, if it was an accurate reflection of the will of the people of Ireland, then why did Ireland not officially legalize gay marriage till 2015? 15 years after the first country to legalize it (The Netherlands). Ireland was one of the last European nations to legalize it.

Ireland is 80% Catholic. Personally it does not seem to me that this vote is evidence that predominantly Catholic populations are not universally resistant to adopt LGBT policies. Am I incorrect in this?

What it looks like is that predominantly Catholic countries are still often politically liberal, and there are examples of such nations being receptive to Same-Sex marriage.

HOWEVER, among those countries that remain opposed to such changes, Catholic ones are the most prominent.

I would rather say that Catholic countries are mixed about LGBT, some are for it, some are against it, more or less 50:50.

The traditional religion of a country does not have to be the direct reason, but some strong correlation pattern can be seen, IMO - protestant countries are most frequently liberal, orthodox countries are most frequently conservative and catholic countries are a mixture.

What would you say is the reason for this so called "split" you say there is in Catholic populations between those who are for and who are against LGBT policies?

Would you say it is because the younger generations of Catholics are more pro LGBT then the older and we are just seeing the beginning of what will become the whole hearted embrace of LGBT policies by Catholic populations? Or some other reason? Maybe the split is over theological positions held by different branches of the Catholic church?

Or would you say that those Catholics who seem to be pro LGBT are just so nominal that they are hardly even to be considered Catholic?

Personally I am wondering if there really is this "split" among Catholic peoples regarding this issue. When I pull up a map of the percent of Catholics in each country:

Catholic Church by country - Wikipedia

It seems to me that every country that has a high percentage of Catholics (80-90%) has either not yet legalized gay marriage or was very slow in legalizing it. With those closest to central Europe seeming to be the ones most likely to legalize it.

Judging by this. It seems reasonable to me to assume that the Catholic church has done more to slow the acceptance of LGBT policies than any other Christian denomination (with the possible exception of the Orthodox Church).
 
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Albion

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Judging by this. It seems reasonable to me to assume that the Catholic church has done more to slow the acceptance of LGBT policies than any other Christian denomination (with the possible exception of the Orthodox Church).
That might be so, but only because of the size and influence of the Roman Catholic Church. There are many other denominations that are more emphatic and consistent in opposing what you are addressing in this thread. However, they are less politically powerful.
 
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iarwain

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To be a Catholic, you are supposed to accept the doctrines of the Catholic Church. If you don't, you are considered a heretic. You're supposed to accept the entire package. Of course individuals take that with various grains of salt, but that's the way it's supposed to work. The Catholic Church still holds the official position that homosexuality is sinful. So if people take their religion seriously, they won't be accepting the LGBTQ agenda.

Of course younger people would be more likely to buy into it. Younger people have been a target for LGBTQ indoctrination, and it has paid dividends. There have been several recent studies that show an explosion in the percentage of young people identifying as LGBTQ. The numbers have increased as much as eightfold, depending what studies you are looking at.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Some corrections to the misunderstanding about the Catholic Church.

First off, the Church does not teach that homosexual orientation is a sin, but the
acts are. Same is true for all sexual acts outside of marriage.

Second, many identify as being Catholic, despite the fact that they haven't been
to Mass outside of weddings or Christmas in their lives. I taught Confirmation
Classes to high-school kids and know this to be a fact.

So, if they ask devote Catholics the same question, they'll get an answer that is
in line with Church teaching.

Myself, marriage is between a man and woman. Same sex relationships are unions
not marriages. They may have deep love and devotion to each other, but they relationship
is not a marrige. They can never reproduce, which is the primary purpose for marriage and
their unitive act does not exists as it does between a man and woman.
 
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MikeinSeattle

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To be a Catholic, you are supposed to accept the doctrines of the Catholic Church. If you don't, you are considered a heretic. You're supposed to accept the entire package. Of course individuals take that with various grains of salt, but that's the way it's supposed to work. The Catholic Church still holds the official position that homosexuality is sinful. So if people take their religion seriously, they won't be accepting the LGBTQ agenda.

That might be so, but only because of the size and influence of the Roman Catholic Church. There are many other denominations that are more emphatic and consistent in opposing what you are addressing in this thread. However, they are less politically powerful.

Then I would think there must be beyond immense pressure on the high leadership of the Catholic church to give there endorsement to LGBT. I wonder what has kept them from giving in for so long.
 
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iarwain

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Then I would think there must be beyond immense pressure on the high leadership of the Catholic church to give there endorsement to LGBT. I wonder what has kept them from giving in for so long.
Maybe they've read the Bible?
 
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Albion

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Then I would think there must be beyond immense pressure on the high leadership of the Catholic church to give there endorsement to LGBT. I wonder what has kept them from giving in for so long.
The Church is divided, Mike. It retains some of the most traditional of Christians, but it also includes (in high places as well as in the pews) some of the most "progressive" or liberal people. And this varies according to which nation we're looking at.

The Church's public stances and policies, as a result, are going to be mixed for at least the near future.
 
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jamiec

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There seems to be a disconnect between Catholic teaching and the folks who sit in the pews, depending on the area of course. For instance, according to recent studies, a majority of American and European Catholics favor same-sex marriage.

Majority of U.S. Catholics’ opinions run counter to church on contraception, homosexuality

How Catholics around the world see same-sex marriage, homosexuality

Isn't being disconnected from the teaching of the church to which one belongs evidence that the person doesn't really identify in that faith?
For a lot of Catholics, and not for them only but for many other Christians as well, there is much more to the type of Christianity to which they belong than doctrine alone.

For many Catholics, being Catholic is part of being a cultural community, with cultural rites, attitudes, and taboos: which might - or might not - be inextricable from religious faith and religious orthodoxy. To live in such a community is as much a way of life within a particular culture, as a religious profession of doctrine.

This appears to be especially noticeable among Irish and Polish Catholics. Holding on to the religion of one’s ancestors can be a means of protest against and occupying power; and this is certainly one of the reasons that Catholicism in Ireland has endured. Since the occupying English were Protestants, it was natural, if no more, for the Catholic majority in Ireland to be especially tenacious of the religion which was strongly opposed to the religion of the occupiers.

To hold on to the culture associated, in whatever ways, with the religion, is a powerful means of differentiating oneself from the larger society of which one is also a member.
I suppose if the leader of that church agrees with a position, congregation members of that church should evaluate that position and decide whether it comports with the faith and doctrine they can stand up for.

The church in question uses, and has for centuries, a book which the churcûh based its doctrine upon. The book hasn't changed, but the doctrine has (to the extent that can be reasonably determined based on the pronouncements from the leadership). Perhaps, if one applies these realities, the disconnect you allude to isn't so hard to understand.
 
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Lost4words

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Hatred of LGBT people is a festering sore.

Thats where you are obviously tarring with the wrong brush!!

I said "LGBT is like a festering sore. It is and has, taken people away from God."

I didnt say the people were a festering sore!

Please, dont assume hatred of people when its the actual acts that are hated! ;)
 
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SilverBear

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Thats where you are obviously tarring with the wrong brush!!

I said "LGBT is like a festering sore. It is and has, taken people away from God."

I didnt say the people were a festering sore!

Please, dont assume hatred of people when its the actual acts that are hated! ;)
its not an act it a state of being when you way its a festering sore you are talking about the people who are
 
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Lost4words

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its not an act it a state of being when you way its a festering sore you are talking about the people who are

"Its" a festering, evil sore. Brought into the world by the devil. Thats the plain truth.
 
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Lost4words

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and this is what hate looks like

Obviously you disagree with the Bible? God made man and woman. Nothing in between. Man for woman. Woman for man.

Its not hate. I dont hate them.

My nephew is gay. I dont hate him.
 
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SilverBear

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Obviously you disagree with the Bible?
because i don't hate the same people you do?

God made man and woman. Nothing in between. Man for woman. Woman for man.
gay men are men and lesbians are women

Its not hate. I dont hate them.

My nephew is gay. I dont hate him.
how does he respond to you telling him he isn't a man. Does he agree with you that hes a festering evil?
 
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Lost4words

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because i don't hate the same people you do?

gay men are men and lesbians are women

how does he respond to you telling him he isn't a man. Does he agree with you that hes a festering evil?

You read into and out of my posts in a skewed way. You should take your blinkers off my friend.

God bless you
 
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hislegacy

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If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

I find it interesting in your research you did not find the countries where; not only is gay marriage not legal, but they put gay people to death publicly.

They are not Catholic, but you do not mention them - why is that?

Here are 13 countries where you can be executed for being homosexual - not one of them is Catholic.

13 countries where being gay is legally punishable by death — CulturePop

I find that a bit more abhorrent than the two or three Catholic countries you cited for not recognizing gay marriage.

Thoughts?
 
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MikeinSeattle

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I find it interesting in your research you did not find the countries where; not only is gay marriage not legal, but they put gay people to death publicly.

They are not Catholic, but you do not mention them - why is that?

Here are 13 countries where you can be executed for being homosexual - not one of them is Catholic.

13 countries where being gay is legally punishable by death — CulturePop

I find that a bit more abhorrent than the two or three Catholic countries you cited for not recognizing gay marriage.

Thoughts?

The focus of my original question was the Catholic church and comparing it to other branches of Christianity. The Muslim faith does not fall into that category since it is not a Christian religion. I have already addressed this point above.
 
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