WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

LoveGodsWord · Nov 8, 2021

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Then why argue that the aroist in John 4:14 proves that you cannot lose your salvation when the scriptures contexts are conditional to receiving Gods' Word and Gods' Word remaining "in us" and try and claim the aroist use in John 4:14 proves we cannot depart the faith into unbelief and known unrepentant sin and still receive everlasting life when the scriptures teach the exact opposite *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8)?

Your response here...

FreeGrace2 said:
Your very long sentence here is totally unbiblical. None of the verses you cite or quote even say what you keep claiming.
If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?

Not really your response to what I wrote above is unresponsive to the content your quoting from and does not answer the question asked of you. Your claims in this post also disregard all the scriptures already shared with you that prove that if at any stage in our Christian walk we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believers believing" but have become "unbelievers not believing" and according to John 3:36 "unbelievers not believing" do not receive eternal life (see *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199). Yep a lot of scripture here dear friend that your choosing to disregard proving that our salvation is conditional to believing and following what God's Word says. Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life? This is what the scriptures in the linked posts above warns us about not doing. I suggest you prayerfully re-read them.

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, this seems to be the closest you've yet come to actually providing an answer to my question. And now we have your answer. And, as I expected, not even close to what the Bible says. this is what you said: "we must continue believing and following God's word TO THE END in order to receive life". You couldn't be more wrong. Your comment shows that you believe that the gift of eternal life is received AT THE END OF one's life. Well, your opinion is in direct contradiction to what Jesus said in John 5:24. “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. Since you love the Greek present tense so much, you should really love this verse. The verb "believes" is a present tense, and the words "has eternal life" is also present tense. But, apparently you have no ide what that all means, since you think the gift is given at the END of one's life. Well, those who believe POSSESS etenal life. That's what Jesus said. That means the very MOMENT a person puts their faith in Christ for salvation, they POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE. And you can't prove otherwise. So John 10:28 refers to believers, who are the ones who receive the gift of eternal life. And so from the MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life and shall never perish.

Actually no! You do not get to micro-quote a part of my answer to your question and twist what I have posted out of its context to build a strawman argument that no one is talking about. A detailed scripture response to your question was provided on justification and sanctification in post # 221 linked or post # 225 and once again in post # 257 linked. This is why I asked you do you know the difference between justification and sanctification according to the scripture that you refused to respond to. I asked you this question because an understanding of this subject matter addresses is required to correctly answer your question. All of God's promises are "conditional" to believing and following what Gods Word says (scripture support already provided; here and here linked).

In justification we receive God's forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with God as a free gift of Grace through faith and the promise of eternal life the moment we believe what God's Word says at this stage we are babes in Christ justified and forgiven for our sins because of our faith in Jesus who paid the penalty for our sins with his death so that we can be forgiven for our sins and be reconciled to God. Sanctification however is the work of a lifetime of Christian growth of believing and following what God's Word says and keeping our salvation is conditional on believing and following what God's Word says.

As we grow in grace and faith through a knowledge of God's Word we learn of Jesus through his Word, and take His yoke upon us following what his Word says *see John 8:31-36; Matthew 11:28-30; John 17:17. As posted earlier if at any stage in our Christian walk we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believers believing" but have become "unbelievers not believing" and according to John 3:36 "unbelievers not believing" do not receive eternal life (see *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199). Sanctification therefore is a work of a lifetime of believing and following what God's Word says and only those who endure temptation to the end receive everlasting life *James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:9; Matthew 10:22.

FreeGrace2 said:
Where you keep going off the rails with your unbiblical opinions, is that a believer receives and possesses eternal life WHEN they believe on Christ. That is exactly what John 5:24 says. More unsubstantiated opinion. Where does the Bible describe a former believer as an unbeliever? But it doesn't matter. We know from John 5:24 that from the MOMENT one believes they POSSESS eternal life. And therefore, they shall never perish, as Jesus said in John 10:28. You shot yourself in the foot when you claimed that eternal life is received at the end.

Not at all. According to the scriptures that have been shared with you that are not my words but Gods' Word that you seem to disagree with your words here, I agree that a believer receives the hope of the promise of eternal life when they believe on Christ. To believe on Christ is always present tense application to believing. We looked at this in some detail in John 3:16-18; John 3:36 and John 5:24 already. So if someone has departed the faith to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin are they still believing or are they in departing the faith now unbelieving? - Of course they are no longer believing but are now unbelievers. John 3:36 says those who are not believing (present tense) do not see life. These of course are Gods' Words that disagree with your words that are not God's Word. According to the scripture once more we receive the hope of eternal life today once we believe God's Word *Titus 1:1-2; Titus 3:7; Colossians 1:23; 1 John 3:3; 1 Peter 3:15; 1 Peter 1:21; Hebrews 3:6; Hebrews 6:11; Hebrews 3:14, we receive eternal life at His coming as his rewards are with him *Revelation 22:12.

FreeGrace2 said:
It is received WHEN a person believes in Christ. John 5:24

A person is not believing in Christ if they choose to depart the faith and reject God's Word and return to a life on known unrepentant sin *Hebrews 10:26-27.

Take Care dear friend.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 8, 2021

HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE NOW

We receive the hope of eternal life today and we receive eternal life at His coming if we remain faithful to the end...

TITUS 1:1-2 [1], Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of THE TRUTH WHICH IS AFTER GODLINESS; [2], IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

TITUS 3:7 [7], That being justified by his grace, WE SHOULD BE MADE HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.

COLOSSIANS 1:23 [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH grounded and settled, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

1 JOHN 3:3 [3], And every man that has this HOPE IN HIM purifies himself, even as he is pure.

1 PETER 3:15 [15], But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU with meekness and fear

1 PETER 1:21 [21], Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; THAT YOUR FAITH AND HOPE MIGHT BE IN GOD.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 6:11 [11], And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of HOPE TO THE END

HEBREWS 3:14 [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST TO THE END

Those who are unfaithful depart the faith....

HEBREWS 10:26-31 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

HEBREWS 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

HEBREWS 12:25 [25], See that you refuse not him that speaks. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke on earth, MUCH MORE SHALL NOT WE ESCAPE, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM THAT SPEAKS FROM HEAVEN.

2 PETER 2:20 [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN, AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE WITH THEM THAN THE BEGINNING.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 2:3 [3], HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE, IF WE NEGLECT SO GREAT SALVATION; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by them that heard him

COLOSSIANS 1:21-23 [21], And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH GROUNDED AND SETTLED, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, WHICH YOU HAVE HEARD, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

JAMES 1:12 [12], BLESSED IS THE MAN THAT ENDURES TEMPTATION: FOR WHEN HE IS TRIED, HE SHALL RECEIVE THE CROWN OF LIFE, WHICH THE LORD HAS PROMISED TO THEM THAT LOVE HIM.

MATTHEW 24:13 [13], BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

MARK 13:13 [13], And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

1 TIMOTHY 4:1 [1], But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times SOME SHALL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH, GIVING HEED TO SEDUCING SPIRITS AND DOCTRINES OF DEMONS

...................

No one receives eternal life if they choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. This teaching is not biblical or supported in the scriptures.

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

prophecy_uk · Nov 9, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE NOW

We receive the hope of eternal life today and we receive eternal life at His coming if we remain faithful to the end...

TITUS 1:1-2 [1], Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of THE TRUTH WHICH IS AFTER GODLINESS; [2], IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

TITUS 3:7 [7], That being justified by his grace, WE SHOULD BE MADE HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.

COLOSSIANS 1:23 [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH grounded and settled, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

1 JOHN 3:3 [3], And every man that has this HOPE IN HIM purifies himself, even as he is pure.

1 PETER 3:15 [15], But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU with meekness and fear

1 PETER 1:21 [21], Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; THAT YOUR FAITH AND HOPE MIGHT BE IN GOD.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 6:11 [11], And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of HOPE TO THE END

HEBREWS 3:14 [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST TO THE END

Those who are unfaithful depart the faith....

HEBREWS 10:26-31 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

HEBREWS 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

HEBREWS 12:25 [25], See that you refuse not him that speaks. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke on earth, MUCH MORE SHALL NOT WE ESCAPE, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM THAT SPEAKS FROM HEAVEN.

2 PETER 2:20 [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN, AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE WITH THEM THAN THE BEGINNING.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 2:3 [3], HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE, IF WE NEGLECT SO GREAT SALVATION; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by them that heard him

COLOSSIANS 1:21-23 [21], And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH GROUNDED AND SETTLED, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, WHICH YOU HAVE HEARD, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

JAMES 1:12 [12], BLESSED IS THE MAN THAT ENDURES TEMPTATION: FOR WHEN HE IS TRIED, HE SHALL RECEIVE THE CROWN OF LIFE, WHICH THE LORD HAS PROMISED TO THEM THAT LOVE HIM.

MATTHEW 24:13 [13], BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

MARK 13:13 [13], And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

1 TIMOTHY 4:1 [1], But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times SOME SHALL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH, GIVING HEED TO SEDUCING SPIRITS AND DOCTRINES OF DEMONS

...................

No one receives eternal life if they choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. This teaching is not biblical or supported in the scriptures.

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

Looks like you are missing one point, sin has been repented of, not to be repented of..

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 9, 2021

I said:
"If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?"

LoveGodsWord said:
Your claims in this post also disregard all the scriptures already shared with you that prove that if at any stage in our Christian walk we choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believers believing" but have become "unbelievers not believing" and according to John 3:36 "unbelievers not believing" do not receive eternal life (see *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199).

Since you FINALLY did answer my question about WHEN a person receives the gift of eternal life, I can NOW address your comments.

You have made clear your belief, which is totally unbiblical, that the gift of eternal life isn't given UNTIL "the end". Can you defend your claim from Scripture? Let's see what you have.

Yep a lot of scripture here dear friend that your choosing to disregard proving that our salvation is conditional to believing and following what God's Word says.

You've shown nothing of the sort. Paul's answer to the jailer does NOT include what you keep including: "following what God's Word says". That is for those who ARE already saved. It's NOT for unbelievers seeking salvation. Or Paul would have said what you keep claiming.

Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?

Your question reveals your total failure to understand God's Word. The gift of eternal life is received WHEN a person believes in Christ.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Go ahead and prove me wrong, from this verse.

This is what the scriptures in the linked posts above warns us about not doing. I suggest you prayerfully re-read them.

I recommend that you prayerfully read the verse I have given you.

In justification we receive God's forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with God as a free gift of Grace through faith and the promise of eternal life the moment we believe

Again, you have revealed your ignorance of what God's Word teaches.

When a person believes, they don't receive "the promise of eternal life". They actually receive the gift itself. That's what John 5:24 says. But you refuse to believe the truth.

I agree that a believer receives the hope of the promise of eternal life when they believe on Christ.

Who are you "agreeing" with here? Certainly not me. And NOT the Bible either. What verse says a person only receives the "promise of eternal life" when they believe? Please do share.

To believe on Christ is always present tense application to believing.

Of course. ALL actions that we do are in the present tense. This fact does not support anything you've posted.

we receive eternal life at His coming as his rewards are with him *Revelation 22:12.

You are just very confused. So it seems you think that "His rewards" is "eternal life". Am I reading you accurately here?

Now that you've finally answered my question, I am fully able to respond to your comments.

And you have shown yourself to be quite unfamiliar with what God's Word says.

You don't understand WHEN a person receives the gift (not just some promise) of eternal life. As such, your theology completely falls apart.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 9, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE NOW

We receive the hope of eternal life today and we receive eternal life at His coming if we remain faithful to the end...

No, you just very confused about what God's Word says about the matter of eternal life.

TITUS 1:1-2 [1], Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of THE TRUTH WHICH IS AFTER GODLINESS; [2], IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

TITUS 3:7 [7], That being justified by his grace, WE SHOULD BE MADE HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.

COLOSSIANS 1:23 [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH grounded and settled, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

1 JOHN 3:3 [3], And every man that has this HOPE IN HIM purifies himself, even as he is pure.

1 PETER 3:15 [15], But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU with meekness and fear

1 PETER 1:21 [21], Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; THAT YOUR FAITH AND HOPE MIGHT BE IN GOD.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 6:11 [11], And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of HOPE TO THE END

HEBREWS 3:14 [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST TO THE END

Those who are unfaithful depart the faith....

HEBREWS 10:26-31 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

HEBREWS 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

HEBREWS 12:25 [25], See that you refuse not him that speaks. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke on earth, MUCH MORE SHALL NOT WE ESCAPE, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM THAT SPEAKS FROM HEAVEN.

2 PETER 2:20 [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN, AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE WITH THEM THAN THE BEGINNING.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 2:3 [3], HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE, IF WE NEGLECT SO GREAT SALVATION; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by them that heard him

COLOSSIANS 1:21-23 [21], And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH GROUNDED AND SETTLED, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, WHICH YOU HAVE HEARD, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

JAMES 1:12 [12], BLESSED IS THE MAN THAT ENDURES TEMPTATION: FOR WHEN HE IS TRIED, HE SHALL RECEIVE THE CROWN OF LIFE, WHICH THE LORD HAS PROMISED TO THEM THAT LOVE HIM.

MATTHEW 24:13 [13], BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

MARK 13:13 [13], And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

1 TIMOTHY 4:1 [1], But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times SOME SHALL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH, GIVING HEED TO SEDUCING SPIRITS AND DOCTRINES OF DEMONS

By quoting all these verses, it seems you are confusing the actual gift of eternal life with being IN eternity. As such, your theology is very messed up.

No one receives eternal life if they choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. This teaching is not biblical or supported in the scriptures.

What isn't biblical or supported by Scripture is the notion that eternal life isn't received until THE END, as you have claimed.

The gift is received WHEN a person believes in Christ. John 5:24

You have the opportunity to refute my understanding of the verse. Please proceed, if you can.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
I said: "If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?"

The scriptures already provided from *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199 which are Gods' Word (not my words) disagree with your words that are not God's Word.

FreeGrace2 said:
Since you FINALLY did answer my question about WHEN a person receives the gift of eternal life, I can NOW address your comments. You have made clear your belief, which is totally unbiblical, that the gift of eternal life isn't given UNTIL "the end". Can you defend your claim from Scripture? Let's see what you have.

No! I said no such thing. Your building arguments again no one is arguing about. I said we receive the promise of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods Word (Justification). We do not receive eternal life until our time on earth is over or at the second coming. Please stop making arguments no one is arguing about.

FreeGrace2 said:
You've shown nothing of the sort.

Sure I have. Please see *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199 which are Gods' Word (not my words) disagree with your words that are not God's Word.

FreeGrace2 said:
Paul's answer to the jailer does NOT include what you keep including: "following what God's Word says". That is for those who ARE already saved. It's NOT for unbelievers seeking salvation. Or Paul would have said what you keep claiming.

This is why I asked you if you know the difference between "justification" and "sanctification" which you did not respond to which was discussed in my earlier answer to you. The thief on the cross is a good example of justification and the forgiveness of sins that we receive from Jesus as a free gift of Gods' grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9. Sanctification however is the work of a lifetime of believing and following what Gods' Word says. The jailer was coming to Christ for the first time and Paul was showing him how to receive forgiveness of sins. This has already been addressed earlier.

LoveGodsWord wrote: Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?

Your response here...

FreeGrace2 said:
Your question reveals your total failure to understand God's Word. The gift of eternal life is received WHEN a person believes in Christ.

No. According to the scriptures we receive the promise of eternal life today, the moment we believe God's Word and the promise of God's forgiveness for our sins. So we have the hope of eternal life today as shown in all the scriptures provided in post # 262 linked. We do not receive eternal life until we have been tried (tested) *James 1:3-4; James 1:12 and our time on earth is over (death) or at the second coming. I noticed you simply avoided answering the question asked of you again which was "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?" Are you going to answer it? Or is this a one way discussion where you believe only I am the one that has to answer questions.

FreeGrace2 said:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. Go ahead and prove me wrong, from this verse.

No problem. As posted earlier, we receive the promise of eternal life today, the moment we believe God's Word and the promise of God's forgiveness for our sins. So we have the hope of eternal life today as shown in all the scriptures provided in post # 262 linked. We do not receive eternal life until we have been tried (tested) *James 1:3-4; James 1:12 and our time on earth is over (death) or at the second coming. If we received eternal life already there would be no more death.

As shown through the scriptures already the Greek Word used in John 5:24 G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing. So this scriptures promise of eternal life is "conditional" to "believing" which is present participle active which means to continually be believing. If we choose to depart the faith (Hebrews 4:6-8; Hebrews 10:26-27; see also the multitude of scriptures and warnings about "departing the faith" already provided from post # 247 linked) to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believing" but have now become "unbelieving" therefore the conditions of receiving Gods' promise of being "believing" has not been met as we have become "unbelievers" who receive the justice and judgements of God already shown in the scriptures provided in post # 5 linked.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him.

Take Care dear friend.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 9, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE NOW

We receive the hope of eternal life today and we receive eternal life at His coming if we remain faithful to the end...

TITUS 1:1-2 [1], Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of THE TRUTH WHICH IS AFTER GODLINESS; [2], IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

TITUS 3:7 [7], That being justified by his grace, WE SHOULD BE MADE HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.

COLOSSIANS 1:23 [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH grounded and settled, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

1 JOHN 3:3 [3], And every man that has this HOPE IN HIM purifies himself, even as he is pure.

1 PETER 3:15 [15], But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU with meekness and fear

1 PETER 1:21 [21], Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; THAT YOUR FAITH AND HOPE MIGHT BE IN GOD.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 6:11 [11], And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of HOPE TO THE END

HEBREWS 3:14 [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST TO THE END

Those who are unfaithful depart the faith....

HEBREWS 10:26-31 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

HEBREWS 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

HEBREWS 12:25 [25], See that you refuse not him that speaks. For if they escaped not who refused him that spoke on earth, MUCH MORE SHALL NOT WE ESCAPE, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM THAT SPEAKS FROM HEAVEN.

2 PETER 2:20 [20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN, AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE WITH THEM THAN THE BEGINNING.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF WE HOLD FAST THE CONFIDENCE AND THE REJOICING OF THE HOPE FIRM TO THE END.

HEBREWS 2:3 [3], HOW SHALL WE ESCAPE, IF WE NEGLECT SO GREAT SALVATION; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by them that heard him

COLOSSIANS 1:21-23 [21], And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH GROUNDED AND SETTLED, AND BE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL, WHICH YOU HAVE HEARD, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

JAMES 1:12 [12], BLESSED IS THE MAN THAT ENDURES TEMPTATION: FOR WHEN HE IS TRIED, HE SHALL RECEIVE THE CROWN OF LIFE, WHICH THE LORD HAS PROMISED TO THEM THAT LOVE HIM.

MATTHEW 24:13 [13], BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

MARK 13:13 [13], And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: BUT HE THAT ENDURETH TO THE END, THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED.

1 TIMOTHY 4:1 [1], But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times SOME SHALL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH, GIVING HEED TO SEDUCING SPIRITS AND DOCTRINES OF DEMONS

...................

No one receives eternal life if they choose to depart the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. This teaching is not biblical or supported in the scriptures.

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

Your response here...

FreeGrace2 said:
No, you just very confused about what God's Word says about the matter of eternal life. By quoting all these verses, it seems you are confusing the actual gift of eternal life with being IN eternity. As such, your theology is very messed up. What isn't biblical or supported by Scripture is the notion that eternal life isn't received until THE END, as you have claimed.

The scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death. The scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from dear friend are Gods' Word (not my words) that you deny with your words that are not Gods' Word. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Take Care.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I said: "If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?"

LoveGodsWord said:
The scriptures already provided from *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199 which are Gods' Word (not my words) disagree with your words that are not God's Word.

you clearly don't understand the verses you cite.

Can you quote ANY verse that show eternal life being removed?

I said we receive the promise of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods Word (Justification).

And the problem with this claim is that it is totally false. We don't receive a "promise" when we believe. John 5:24 tells us that we receive the actual gift of eternal life.

Where do you get your erroneous and unbiblical ideas?

We do not receive eternal life until our time on earth is over or at the second coming. Please stop making arguments no one is arguing about.

Actually, WHEN a person receives the gift of eternal is totally pertinent to our discussion.

As you have been saying, you think eternal life is received when our time on earth is over.

So, if that is true, please quote the single best and clear verse that says what you claim.

According to the scriptures we receive the promise of eternal life today, the moment we believe God's Word and the promise of God's forgiveness for our sins.

You just keep making these claims, but you have NO evidence to cite from Scripture.

Where is the verse that supports your claim?

So we have the hope of eternal life today as shown in all the scriptures provided in post # 262 linked.

If you actually have a verse that says what you claim, then just quote it. I'm not interested in your "linked" posts. Just give us the verse, if you have one.

We do not receive eternal life until we have been tried (tested) *James 1:3-4; James 1:12 and our time on earth is over (death) or at the second coming.

Except none of the verses you cite here say what you claim. And there are NO OTHER verses that say what you claim.

As posted earlier, we receive the promise of eternal life today, the moment we believe God's Word and the promise of God's forgiveness for our sins.

Then prove your claim by quoting the very best and most clear verse that says what you keep claiming.

We do not receive eternal life until we have been tried (tested) *James 1:3-4; James 1:12 and our time on earth is over (death) or at the second coming. If we received eternal life already there would be no more death.

Doesn't matter how many times you cite your verses. NONE of them say what you claim.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 9, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
The scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over.

Do you comprehend the difference between a "gift" and a "promise"?

If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

Well, tell that to Jesus. He is the One who teaches that those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. Not the "promise" as you keep repeating, but the actual gift itself.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So, please show where you find the word "promise" in this verse.

Your entire theology has been busted by your erroneous view of when a person receives eternal life.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑ I said: "If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?" you clearly don't understand the verses you cite.

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. I have only provided Gods' Word to you dear friend that are not my words but Gods Word from *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199 which are Gods' Word (not my words) disagree with your words that are not God's Word. All you have provided are claims and accusations you are not able to prove from the scriptures so we will have to agree to disagree.

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you quote ANY verse that show eternal life being removed?

Well yes I can thanks for asking. *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199. If someones "end is to be burned" or receiving "fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-27 it really does not seem like they are going to be receiving eternal life some how now does it which we have already shown earlier is the same fate as the wicked (see post # 5 linked). As shown in the rest of scriptures in the linked posts above Gods' salvation and gift of eternal life is conditional to believing (justification) and following (sanctification) what God's Word says.

FreeGrace2 said:
And the problem with this claim is that it is totally false. We don't receive a "promise" when we believe. John 5:24 tells us that we receive the actual gift of eternal life.

Not at all as posted earlier and shown through the scriptures, we receive the promise of eternal life today, the moment we believe God's Word and the promise of God's forgiveness for our sins. So we have the hope of eternal life today as shown in all the scriptures provided in post # 262 linked we do not receive eternal life until we have been tried (tested) *James 1:3-4; James 1:12 and our time on earth is over (death) or at the second coming. I noticed you simply avoided answering the question asked of you again which was "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?" Are you going to answer it? Or is this a one way discussion where you believe only I am the one that has to answer questions. I will let the scriptures I have provided that disagree with your teachings do the talking.

Take care.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you comprehend the difference between a "gift" and a "promise"? Well, tell that to Jesus. He is the One who teaches that those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. Not the "promise" as you keep repeating, but the actual gift itself.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. So, please show where you find the word "promise" in this verse. Your entire theology has been busted by your erroneous view of when a person receives eternal life.

Your micro-quoting my posts while ignoring the context and content from the scripture that are being shared with you here while simply disregarding and disagreeing with the scriptures that are being shared with you which are Gods' Word with your words that are not Gods' Word.

As shown through the scriptures already God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

The scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from dear friend are Gods' Word (not my words) that you deny with your words that are not Gods' Word. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. As posted earlier the Greek Word used in John 5:24 G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing.

So this scriptures promise of eternal life is "conditional" to "believing" which is present participle active which means to continually be believing. If we choose to depart the faith (Hebrews 4:6-8; Hebrews 10:26-27; see also the multitude of scriptures and warnings about "departing the faith" already provided from post # 247 linked) to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believing" but have now become "unbelieving" therefore the conditions of receiving Gods' promise of being "believing" has not been met as we have become "unbelievers" who receive the justice and judgements of God already shown in the scriptures provided in post # 5 linked.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him.

Take Care dear friend.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said: ↑ I said: "If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?" you clearly don't understand the verses you cite.

LoveGodsWord said:
For me, he must increase and I must decrease.

This doesn't address anything I said.

I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him.

What you HAVEN'T pointed out in God's Word is WHEN believers receive the gift of eternal life. Your claim is at the end of one's life, but you have NOT proven that from Scripture.

And simply citing verses doesn't cut it. If there is such a verse, just go ahead and quote the verse.

I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind.

I would have to agree with this.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Can you quote ANY verse that show eternal life being removed?

Well yes I can thanks for asking. *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199. If someones "end is to be burned" or receiving "fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-27 it really does not seem like they are going to be receiving eternal life some how now does it which we have already shown earlier is the same fate as the wicked (see post # 5 linked). As shown in the rest of scriptures in the linked posts above Gods' salvation and gift of eternal life is conditional to believing (justification) and following (sanctification) what God's Word says.

Nope. NONE of these verses says anything close to eternal life being removed. That you think they do shows that you really ARE blind, as you noted already.

Not at all as posted earlier and shown through the scriptures, we receive the promise of eternal life today

When are you going to actually quote a verse that says this?

Why don't you just give up and admit that you are too blind to see the truth.

John 5:24 says IN PLAIN LANGUAGE that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. It's that clear. Believers possess eternal life.

the moment we believe God's Word and the promise of God's forgiveness for our sins.

Nope. You are sadly mistaken.

So we have the hope of eternal life today as shown in all the scriptures provided

None of them say that. John 5:24 says those who believe POSSESS eternal life.

Why don't you believe that verse?

in post # 262 linked we do not receive eternal life until we have been tried (tested) *James 1:3-4; James 1:12

These verses don't say that. Not even close. And you are only in conflict with Jesus' own teaching in John 5:24.

and our time on earth is over (death) or at the second coming. I noticed you simply avoided answering the question asked of you again which was "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?"

I've answered your bogus question many times. Eternal life is received WHEN one believes in Jesus Christ for it. John 5:24 says so IN PLAIN LANGUAGE.

You have provided zero verses that say what you claim in PLAIN LANGUAGE.

Are you going to answer it?

Did and will again, now.

When a person believes, they HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. John 5:24

Now, combine that verse with John 10:28 and those who can see (not blind) will realize that those given eternal life by Jesus (that is believers) shall never perish.

But your theology goes in direct conflict with these clear verses.

Or is this a one way discussion where you believe only I am the one that has to answer questions. I will let the scriptures I have provided that disagree with your teachings do the talking.

None of the verses you provide disagree with me. They simply don't agree with what you claim.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑ I said: "If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?" you clearly don't understand the verses you cite.This doesn't address anything I said. What you HAVEN'T pointed out in God's Word is WHEN believers receive the gift of eternal life. Your claim is at the end of one's life, but you have NOT proven that from Scripture. And simply citing verses doesn't cut it. If there is such a verse, just go ahead and quote the verse. I would have to agree with this. Can you quote ANY verse that show eternal life being removed?
Nope. NONE of these verses says anything close to eternal life being removed. That you think they do shows that you really ARE blind, as you noted already. When are you going to actually quote a verse that says this? Why don't you just give up and admit that you are too blind to see the truth. John 5:24 says IN PLAIN LANGUAGE that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. It's that clear. Believers possess eternal life. Nope. You are sadly mistaken. None of them say that. John 5:24 says those who believe POSSESS eternal life. Why don't you believe that verse? These verses don't say that. Not even close. And you are only in conflict with Jesus' own teaching in John 5:24. I've answered your bogus question many times. Eternal life is received WHEN one believes in Jesus Christ for it. John 5:24 says so IN PLAIN LANGUAGE You have provided zero verses that say what you claim in PLAIN LANGUAGE.
Did and will again, now. When a person believes, they HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. John 5:24
Now, combine that verse with John 10:28 and those who can see (not blind) will realize that those given eternal life by Jesus (that is believers) shall never perish. But your theology goes in direct conflict with these clear verses. None of the verses you provide disagree with me. They simply don't agree with what you claim.

Well all of this is repetition of your words that is unresponsive and does not address anything from the scriptures in the posts you are quoting from that disagree with your teachings or answers any of the questions asked of you. So I guess we will agree to disagree dear friend.

Take Care.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Do you comprehend the difference between a "gift" and a "promise"? Well, tell that to Jesus. He is the One who teaches that those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. Not the "promise" as you keep repeating, but the actual gift itself.

LoveGodsWord said:
Your micro-quoting my posts while ignoring the context and content from the scripture that are being shared with you here while simply disregarding and disagreeing with the scriptures that are being shared with you which are Gods' Word with your words that are not Gods' Word.

So you can't explain the difference between a gift and a promise of a gift, I see. Well, I'm not surprised.

As shown through the scriptures already God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life.

NO!! You are wrong. Eternal life, not the promise, is given to anyone the MOMENT they believe in Christ for it. John 5:24.

Or, exegete the verse to prove that I am wrong.

The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

Those with discernment understand that the "hope" refers to eternity itself. So you are still reading verses very incorrectly.

As posted earlier the Greek Word used in John 5:24 G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing.

How about focusing on the word "has eternal life"? Can you do that?

So this scriptures promise of eternal life is "conditional" to "believing" which is present participle active which means to continually be believing.

You are just really confused. There is no promise of eternal life in John 5:24, or 3:15,16, or 6:40. Why do you insist on FORCING words into Scripture that aren't there?

When you admitted that you believe eternal life is given at the end of one's life, you just sunk your whole theology.

John 5:24 destroys your theories.

Those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. Jesus said nothing about a "promise" in John 5:24. So quit trying to insert words that aren't there.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 9, 2021

FreeGrace2 said: ↑ I said: "If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?" you clearly don't understand the verses you cite.

LoveGodsWord said:
Well all of this is repetition of your words that is unresponsive and does not address anything from the scriptures in the posts you are quoting from that disagree with your teachings or answers any of the questions asked of you. So I guess we will agree to disagree dear friend.

You are done. Finished. You haven't proven anything you have claimed, and in fact, you have proven that you don't even know how to read Scripture correctly.

The actual gift of eternal life is given WHEN a person believes. That is plainly what John 5:24 says, but you have mangled.

So because you don't understand WHEN a person actually possesses eternal life, your entire theology, which hangs on the ERRONEOUS idea that eternal life is given at the end of one's life, is toast. Totally wrong. Unbiblical.

There isn't any thing more to discuss, since you aren't reading God's Word accurately, and you have based your theology on very unbiblical notions.

The Word of God is very clear. Your claims are muddled and unbiblical.

Very sad.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 10, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Do you comprehend the difference between a "gift" and a "promise"?

Well yes I do. Thank you for asking. Do you understand the difference between being given a promise and when a promised is given? (see post 271 linked)

FreeGrace2 said:
So you can't explain the difference between a gift and a promise of a gift, I see. Well, I'm not surprised.

See post 271 linked

LoveGodsWord wrote: As shown through the scriptures already God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life.

Your response here...

FreeGrace2 said:
NO!! You are wrong. Eternal life, not the promise, is given to anyone the MOMENT they believe in Christ for it. John 5:24. Or, exegete the verse to prove that I am wrong.

Of course we receive the promise of eternal life (see John 3:15-18; John 3:36; John 5:24 etc) the very moment we believe God's Word. In contrast no one receives eternal life if they choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin *Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36. You have already been proven wrong in and a John 5:24 has already been shown not to support your teachings. (see *Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 3:8-19 see also post # 2; post # 3; and post # 5; post # 7; post # 189 and post # 199). Your welcome.

FreeGrace2 said:
Those with discernment understand that the "hope" refers to eternity itself. So you are still reading verses very incorrectly.

No. Our hope is in receiving Gods' promise of eternal life through faith...

TITUS 1:1-2 [1], Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of THE TRUTH WHICH IS AFTER GODLINESS; [2], IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

TITUS 3:7 [7], That being justified by his grace, WE SHOULD BE MADE HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. (see post 262 linked for more scripture)

FreeGrace2 said:
How about focusing on the word "has eternal life"? Can you do that?

How about focusing on the condition for receiving eternal life which is "believing" (present tense indicative). Those who choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and known unrepentant sin (Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31) are not "believing" but "unbelieving" therefore do not receive eternal life (see the scriptures posted in post # 5 linked).

FreeGrace2 said:
You are just really confused. There is no promise of eternal life in John 5:24, or 3:15,16, or 6:40. Why do you insist on FORCING words into Scripture that aren't there?

No. I love and believe God's promises that are Gods' Word (not my words) that disagree with your words that are not God's Word...

JOHN 3:15-18 [15], THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. [16], For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. [17], For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18], HE THAT BELIEVES ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: BUT HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

Yep, sounds like God's conditional promise of eternal life to me..

JOHN 5:24 [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, HE THAT HEARS MY WORD, AND BELIEVES (BELIEVING – Present tense) ON HIM THAT SENT ME, HAS EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life.

Yep, sounds like God's conditional promise of eternal life to me. Seems like God's Word disagrees with you here dear friend.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 10, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said: ↑ I said: "If the gift of eternal life could be (subjunctive) removed, there would be a verse that actually says so. And you haven't shown any. So why believe your claims?" you clearly don't understand the verses you cite.

You are done. Finished. You haven't proven anything you have claimed, and in fact, you have proven that you don't even know how to read Scripture correctly.

The actual gift of eternal life is given WHEN a person believes. That is plainly what John 5:24 says, but you have mangled.

So because you don't understand WHEN a person actually possesses eternal life, your entire theology, which hangs on the ERRONEOUS idea that eternal life is given at the end of one's life, is toast. Totally wrong. Unbiblical.

There isn't any thing more to discuss, since you aren't reading God's Word accurately, and you have based your theology on very unbiblical notions.

The Word of God is very clear. Your claims are muddled and unbiblical.

Very sad.

I am sorry dear friend but I do not believe you. Your post here is repetition not addressing or responding to anything in the post you are quoting from. As posted earlier; God's promise of eternal life is given to everyone the moment they believe God's promise of forgiveness for sins the very moment we hold out the hand of faith we receive Gods' promise of everlasting life. The scriptures provided earlier to you from post # 262 linked show that we have the hope of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word and we receive God's promise of eternal life after our faith has been tried and our time on earth is over. If we received eternal life now, there would be no more death.

The scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from dear friend are Gods' Word (not my words) that you deny with your words that are not Gods' Word. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. As posted earlier the Greek Word used in John 5:24 G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing.

So this scriptures promise of eternal life is "conditional" to "believing" which is present participle active which means to continually be believing. If we choose to depart the faith (Hebrews 4:6-8; Hebrews 10:26-27; see also the multitude of scriptures and warnings about "departing the faith" already provided from post # 247 linked) to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin we are no longer "believing" but have now become "unbelieving" therefore the conditions of receiving Gods' promise of being "believing" has not been met as we have become "unbelievers" who receive the justice and judgements of God already shown in the scriptures provided in post # 5 linked.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him.

I noticed you simply avoided answering the question asked of you again which was

"Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?" Are you going to answer it? Or is this a one way discussion where you believe only I am the one that has to answer questions. I will let the scriptures I have provided that disagree with your teachings do the talking. I am enjoying our discussion dear friend and the opportunity to share Gods Word here.

Take Care.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 10, 2021

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Do you comprehend the difference between a "gift" and a "promise"?

LoveGodsWord said:
Well yes I do.

Well, do you, now? I doubt it, from your posts. You said a believer receives a "promise" WHEN they believe, yet eternal life is described as a "gift" in Rom 6:23. So, in John 5:24 where Jesus said those who believe HAVE eternal life, He literally means they possess the GIFT of eternal life. Not a "promise" as you erroneously think.

Thank you for asking. Do you understand the difference between being given a promise and when a promised is given? (see post 271 linked)

Here is what you clearly do NOT understand: Jesus gives the GIFT of eternal life WHEN a person believes in Him. Can you exegete John 5:24 and prove your claim and refute mine?

Of course we receive the promise of eternal life (see John 3:15-18; John 3:36; John 5:24 etc) the very moment we believe God's Word.

Well, then. Your reading skills are quite lacking. There is NO MENTION of a "promise" in any of the verses you just cited. In fact, John 5:24 says clearly that eternal life is a present POSSESSION of believers.

In contrast no one receives eternal life if they choose to "depart the faith" and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin *Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36.

Why do you keep thinking that these verses say what you keep claiming when they don't?

You have already been proven wrong in and a John 5:24 has already been shown not to support your teachings.

This is quite a revealing admission of being unable to read plain text. You've proven that repeatedly.

[QUOTENo. Our hope is in receiving Gods' promise of eternal life through faith...[/QUOTE]
OK, let's address the Greek word for "hope". Unlike the English, it doesn't mean a "wish". In the Greek, it means a "confident expectation".

How about focusing on the condition for receiving eternal life which is "believing" (present tense indicative).

I have, if you had read my posts. And John 5:24 says that those who presently believe presently POSSESS eternal life. It couldn't be any more clear.

From the MOMENT one believes, they POSSESS eternal life. The GIFT, not the "promise".

Those who choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and known unrepentant sin (Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31) are not "believing" but "unbelieving" therefore do not receive eternal life (see the scriptures posted in post # 5 linked).

This faulty statement is based on the fallacy that the gift of eternal life isn't given until the end of one's life. John 5:24 says it is a present possession of those who believe, which means the MOMENT they believe.

No. I love and believe God's promises that are Gods' Word (not my words) that disagree with your words that are not God's Word...[/QUOTE
You have demonstrated over and over just how much you do NOT even understand what God's Word says.

JOHN 3:15-18 [15], THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. [16], For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. [17], For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18], HE THAT BELIEVES ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED: BUT HE THAT BELIEVES NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

Yep, sounds like God's conditional promise of eternal life to me..

Click to expand...

Where do you see the word "promise" anywhere in these verses? Your imagination is getting the better of you.

JOHN 5:24 [24], Truly, truly, I say to you, HE THAT HEARS MY WORD, AND BELIEVES (BELIEVING – Present tense) ON HIM THAT SENT ME, HAS EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life.

Click to expand...

Here, you even underlined the words "HAS (possesses) eternal life", yet you don't believe what it says. Those who believe possess eternal life.

You wrongly believe that eternal life is received at the end of one's life. In direct contrast with John 5:24.

[QUOTEYep, sounds like God's conditional promise of eternal life to me.

"sounds like..."??? No, it doesn't. Not even close. Your reading skills need a lot of help

John 5:24 says whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life. Which you don't believe, based on your claims.

Seems like God's Word disagrees with you here dear friend.

You are clueless, my friend.

Take some reading classes and LEARN what words mean.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 10, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
I am sorry dear friend but I do not believe you.

Nor do you believe God's Word. John 5:24 SAYS those who believe POSSESS eternal life, which you do not believe.

So this scriptures promise of eternal life is "conditional" to "believing" which is present participle active which means to continually be believing.

John 5:24 doesn't even mention anything about a "promise". It specifically states that eternal life is a present POSSESSION of those who believe.

iow, the gift of eternal life is received WHEN a person believes. Which you don't believe.

If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him.

If that "someone" has EVER believed, then they HAVE received the gift of eternal life, and Jesus says those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

"Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?"

Your question is bogus. It assumes the gift of eternal life is received at the end of one's life. That is unbiblical. The gift of eternal life is received WHEN one believes, according to John 5:24.

Your views aren't even close to Scripture.

Since you have repeatedly proved that you have serious reading skill flaws, why should I accept ANYTHING you say about ANY verse?

Since you can't read John 5:24 correctly, how can anyone think that you can read ANY other verse correctly?

LoveGodsWord · Nov 10, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
Nor do you believe God's Word. John 5:24 SAYS those who believe POSSESS eternal life, which you do not believe.

No that is not true at all. I love and believe all of God's Word (see my name

). As posted many times now God's promise of eternal life in John 5:24 is conditional to believing Gods' Word. If we are not believing what Gods' Word says then according to John 3:36 we do not see life and the wrath of God stays on us.

FreeGrace2 said:
John 5:24 doesn't even mention anything about a "promise". It specifically states that eternal life is a present POSSESSION of those who believe.

Repetition already addressed. Eternal life is God's promise to all those believing Gods' Word. Eternal life however is not God's promise to all those not believing Gods Word. Gods promise to those not believing God's Word is the wrath of God *John 3:36 (see also the scriptures already shared post # 5 linked).

FreeGrace2 said:
If that "someone" has EVER believed, then they HAVE received the gift of eternal life, and Jesus says those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

These are your words then we have Gods' Word that says...

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], IF THEY (believers) SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEMSELVES AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY THEMSELVES THE SUN OF GOD AFRESH AND PUT HIM TO OPEN SHAME. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; (8) WHO'S END IS TO BE BURNED.

and again...

HEBREWS 10:26-31
[26], (1-2) FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
[27], (3) BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.
[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29], (4) OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT SUPPOSE YOU SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
[30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
[32], But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great fight of afflictions;
[33], Partly, whilst you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst you became companions of them that were so used.
[34], For you had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that you have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
[35], (5) CAST NOT AWAY THEREFORE YOUR CONFIDENCE, which has great recompense of reward.
[36], (6) FOR YOU HAVE NEED OF PATIENCE, THAT, AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD, YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE.
[37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [38], Now the just shall live by faith:(7) BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

Seems God's Word disagrees with you here dear friend...

As posted earlier in regards to John 10:28 God's promise of eternal life in the context your disregarding is to those who are believing and following Gods' Word who are described as Gods' sheep in John 10:26-27. Those who do not receive eternal life are those who do not believe and follow Gods' Word. These are not God's sheep. The take home message? We must be God's sheep in order to receive Gods' promise of eternal life.

LoveGodsWord wrote: "Are you seriously trying to claim that we can not believe and follow what Gods' Word says and still receive everlasting life?"

Your response here...

FreeGrace2 said:
Your question is bogus. It assumes the gift of eternal life is received at the end of one's life.

The question is a genuine question based on the scripture. The question does not mention or assumes anything in regards to when God's promise of eternal life is received. It is not a hard question if you know the scripture and simply is asking can someone who has departed the faith to return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin still receive everlasting life (based on Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31)?

If you do not know the answer to this question I am happy to answer it for you although the scriptures already provided answer this question. Of course these scriptures do not agree with your teachings.

Take Care dear friend.

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