Is God out to get us?

Saint Steven

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It's anything but inescapable.
God is also a gentleman in my experience. He doesn't take those who don't want him.
Gentlemen don't incinerate you for snubbing them.
 
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Saint Steven

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Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Can you then logically demonstrate how he can be tormented day and night for ever and ever and eventually be saved at the same time? How can someone that is saved be tormented while in a saved state? Being tormented day and night for ever and ever is not compatable with being saved day and night for ever and ever, is it?
It's a translation issue. What is the NT Greek word for "ever"?
 
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Mclachlan

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It's a translation issue. What is the NT Greek word for "ever"?
αἰών (from a root meaning life, especially long life, old age), an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity: ἀπʼ αἰῶνος, from the beginning of the present age, from the beginning of time, Lk. 1:70, &c.: εἰς αἰῶνα (in saeculum, in aeternum, Ambros. expos, ps. cxviii. 12 7 § 1) αἰῶνες αἰώνων, a Hebraistic expression, more emphatic than the simple αἰῶνες Gal. 1:5, &c.

αἰώνιος
, (a) age-long, and, therefore, practically eternal, unending; (b) partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.

Souter, A. (1917). A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New Testament (p. 9). Oxford: Clarendon Press.
It is eternal, infinite, torment in the presence of the Eternal Almighty God.
 
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Saint Steven

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Just as I suspected. "ages of the ages", not eternal. @DavidPT

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Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)
 
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It's anything but inescapable.
God is also a gentleman in my experience. He doesn't take those who don't want him.

That's the point though, ultimately everyone will want Him. Just need to remove those veils and unbelief. That's Jesus' mission after all, to restore sight to the blind, heal the sick, raise the dead etc. Guarantee of "all things made new" ie the Omega Plan.
 
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Unless as with Pharoah, where God had another plan (Exodus 4:21-24) for Pharaoh which God did not reveal to him, so God has another plan instead of the "universalism" which you think is "inescapable."

Pharaoh had the hardening of the heart (Rom 9:17-18), but why? For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all. (Rom 11:32). Jesus has the keys Clare, and holds the seven stars in his hand.

It's the relentless and unstoppable love of the Hound of Heaven. Don't be barking up the wrong tree with ECT.
 
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Petros2015

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Are you familiar with what is called the "Harrowing of Hell"?

I always wondered about that.
Did the very next guy that arrived find it empty?
"Wait!.... Hold the bus!!!"

But I suspect places like these are a bit "outside of time"
 
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Ages of ages is eternal

It's ages and ages. Might be forever, or just a really long time, or simply a classic Hebraic expression to connote 'you can forget about the devil, he won't be back in a hurry'.

Doesn't change the function of the Lake of Fire, which is purificatory. It's right outside the New Jerusalem. Just look at Solomon's Temple, what's outside? The Molten Sea. Look at the Second temple, what's outside? The Pool of Bethesda. The Hebrews were big on ritual purification before entering the temple. That's what water baptism is all about. That's why you get mikva'ot everywhere around the old Jerusalem: Press release – How many Ritual Baths(Mikveh) does the Old City need? And why are there so many routes to Temple Mount?

Find me a precedent in the Bible for the killer tormenting fires of hell. Where's hell mentioned in God's catalogue of "very good" creation in Genesis? Just slipped His mind, did it? Saving the good wine til later, was He?

Why do you think the counterfeit trinity are 'tormented/ tested' in the LoF? It's because they're fighting against the pure love of God. You can burn the devil with earthly fire all you like, he's not going to worry. But trying to fight irresistible Grace? Good luck holding out 'forever and ever', Louis.

Jesus never mentions hell. He speaks of Gehenna and Hades mainly. Now which one are you saying is the medieval torture dungeon you're so enamoured with?
 
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Bible Gateway passage: Luke 16:19-31 - New International Version

I know it's called Hades and not Hell, but it doesn't sound like Lazarus is getting out anytime soon...

Lazarus is the other guy. Don't be so quick to write off Richie, Petros.

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell [hades] and of death. (Rev 1:18)

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Rev 20:13)

So he gets released for the judgment...dusts himself off...and gets turfed into the eternal hellfire! Do not go past go, do not collect $200.

What a comically sadistic fate that would be. God waking up the dead, only to deliver them to a fate far worse.
 
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Petros2015

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What a comically sadistic fate that would be. God waking up the dead, only to deliver them to a fate far worse.

... it appears to me that the rich man is already pretty wide awake ... ? Perhaps moreso than he was during his earthly life. Is there some badly translated Hebrew nuance of "woke" in play here ... ?
 
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... it appears to me that the rich man is already pretty wide awake ... ? Perhaps moreso than he was during his earthly life. Is there some badly translated Hebrew nuance of "woke" in play here ... ?

Lol I think there is...Richie's still 'not getting it', can't work out how to ford that unbridgeable chasm. Which is why he'll need the LoF treatment, a good scrub with the fuller's soap of God's burning love.
 
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