I cannot believe that you would stoop to changing the meaning of James 2 to try to justify salvation by works which you also try to deny, shish. The works James was referring to is good deeds and has absolutely nothing to do with salvation by works of the Law.
Now Bob and
@Danthemailman where have I ever posted to you anywhere in this forum that we are justified or saved by the works of the law and told you that is what I believe? If I have never said such things why are you pretending that I am saying things I have never said or believe even after posting the exact opposite to you (see
post 141 linked)? Let’s be open and honest here Bob in our conversation and prayerfully bring everything to the light of God's Word so it might be a blessing to everyone. There is no need to make claims and accusations as to what people may or may not believe that is
not truthful especially when what I believe was directly posted to you in
post 141 linked that you did not respond to.
Now let’s talk James shall we? No one has posted to you anywhere that James is saying that we are saved by the works of the law. So please stop pretending I saying things I have never said as this is being dishonest or shows that you either did not read or understand my response to you in
post 141 linked that you did not respond to. So let’s clear up any misunderstandings in regards to what I believe James is talking about if it might be helpful here by adding in all the context that you may not be considering from James 2:1-26 that disagrees with your teachings of lawlessness (without law).
JAMES 2:1-26
[1], My brothers, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. [2], For if there come to your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; [3], And you have respect to him that wears the gay clothing, and say to him, Sit you here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand you there, or sit here under my footstool:[4], Are you not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? [5], Listen, my beloved brothers, Has not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he has promised to them that love him? [6], But you have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? [7], Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which you are called?
Note: James starts off in James 2:1-7 showing that we by showing favoritism to people in this case the rich over the poor we are not following God’s Word but are becoming judges of people with evil thoughts and favoring the rich over the poor we are blaspheming Gods’ name because God does not favor one over the other and that it is the rich in “faith” that are the true heirs of the kingdom. James then moves on to make the comparison of favoritism showing that if we did this with anyone of God’s 10 commandments, we stand guilty before God of sin…
[8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, YOU DO WELL: [9],
BUT IF YOU HAVE RESPECT TO PERSONS, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10],
FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], For he that said,
DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL.
NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW. [12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Note: As can be shown above James then goes on to show using the example of God’s 10 commandments quoting “thou shalt not murder” and “thou shalt not commit adultery” to show that if we show favoritism by keeping one over the other we stand guilty before God of breaking all the law. The example was to show that we do not love our neighbour as our self if we do not show love to all men (rich and the poor).
[13], For he shall have judgment without mercy, that has showed no mercy; and mercy rejoices against judgment. [14], WHAT DOES IT PROFIT, MY BROTHERS, THOUGH A MAN SAY HE HAS FAITH, AND HAVE NOT WORKS? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM? 16, And one of you say to them, Depart in peace, be you warmed and filled; notwithstanding you give them not those things which are needful to the body; what does it profit? [17], EVEN SO FAITH, IF IT HAS NOT WORKS, IS DEAD, BEING ALONE. [18], YES, A MAN MAY SAY, YOU HAVE FAITH, AND I HAVE WORKS: SHOW ME YOUR FAITH WITHOUT YOUR WORKS, AND I WILL SHOW YOU MY FAITH BY MY WORKS. [19], YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ONE GOD; YOU DO WELL: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, AND TREMBLE. [20], But will you know, O vain man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD? [21], Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son on the altar? [22], See you how faith worked with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? [23], And the scripture was fulfilled which said, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God. [24], YOU SEE THEN HOW THAT BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY. [25], Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? [26,] FOR AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO.
Note: as already posted in
post 141 linked that you did not respond to, James goes on to show that genuine faith is not separate from obedience to Gods’ Word and that if our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods’ Word all we have is the dead faith of devils.
……………..
Conclusion: James 2:1-7 showing that by showing
favoritism to people as our duty of love to our fellow man, in this case the rich over the poor we are not following God’s Word but are becoming judges of people with evil thoughts blaspheming Gods’ name because God does not favor one person over another and that it is the rich in “
faith” that are the true heirs of the kingdom. James continues applying the same argument to Gods' 10 commandments in James 2:8-12 by saying if we were to show
favoritism between committing
murder and
adultery then we would stand before God guilty of breaking all of Gods law. Finally, James continues in James 2:13-26 by showing that genuine faith is not separate from obedience to Gods’ Word and that if our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods’ Word all we have is the dead faith of devils.
.............
So lets make this very clear so there is no misunderstandings here one more time. As posted to you earlier in
post 141 linked that no one has responded to, according to the scriptures, we are saved by grace
through faith and
not of ourselves it is a
gift of God and
not of works lest any man should boast *
Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is
not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of
condemnation and death *
Romans 3:9-23;
2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods
forgiveness of our sins. According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law is the
fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been
given Gods promise of salvation and the
fruit of God's work in us *
Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *
John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is
dead *
James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the
fire *
Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50;
Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by
love *
Romans 3:31;
1 John 5:3-4;
Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *
1 John 3:6-10;
Revelation 12:17;
Revelation 14:12;
Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. As posted to your friend faith without works is simply the dead faith of devils according to
James 2:17-26. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *
1 John 2:3-4.
Now what is it exactly in this post and the scriptures provided to you that you do not believe?
Take Care and Happy Sabbath Bob and Dan
