THE RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE IS ALWAYS SCRIPTURE "ALONE"

tall73 · Nov 1, 2021

pescador said:
The above quote has the feeling of a cult doctrine. "They [those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith] gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories." And what are "these 50 years"?? Did something happen in 1971 that I'm not aware of?

This was Ellen White speaking about those who brought scriptures to challenge Adventist doctrine. The 50 years are referring to the 50 year development of the doctrine of those who became the Seventh-day Adventist church, coming out of the Millerite movement.

It is relevant because LGW's denomination holds that Ellen White's writings speak with prophetic authority.

rturner76 · Nov 1, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
How can one have faith in God's Word when there is no Gods' Word either spoken or written? *see Romans 10:17. Even if someone speaks God's Word to us we only know God's Word today through the scriptures which is the recorded written Word of God *2 Timothy 3:16. This is why the OP states that the scriptures are the only rule of faith as it in only in the scriptures or the spoken Word of God revealed through the scriptures that we have faith and know Gods will and it is the scriptures that lead us to God *see John 8:31-36.

So how did the Apostles have faith, they had no New Testament for 300 years. Are all of the Christians lacking faith in those first 300 years? No, so we know that faith requires more than just a Bible.

tall73 · Nov 1, 2021

pescador said:
Did something happen in 1971 that I'm not aware of?

In this case, per Ellen White, something happened in 1844.

eleos1954 · Nov 1, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello eleos nice to see you .

According to the scriptures we are only held accountable to God for what we know not what we do not know *see Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. That said the context of Romans 2:14-16 is
Romans 2:11-14 [11], For there is no respect of persons with God (Jew or gentile is the subject matter). [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Paul's argument here is that whether Jew of Gentile all have broken God's law and this theme continues through to Romans 3:9-23 showing that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The scriptures continue Romans 2 saying...

Romans 2:14-16 [14], For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: [15], Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another...

For me all these scriptures are saying is that even if we do not know or follow God's Word it is what we do from the heart that bears witness to our actions if they are acceptable with God or not acceptable with God. It is not saying that Gentiles do not sin as Paul shows through Romans 2 and Romans 3 that no one is righteous before God and that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:9-23) and because of this we need God's forgiveness *Romans 3:23.

When applying the term "the scriptures are the only rule of faith" I am only meaning that faith comes by the Word of God and is where our faith comes from. Nothing more.

God bless.

The Bible states that love is greater than both faith and hope. We couldn't live our lives without faith or hope: without faith, we cannot know the God of love; without hope, we would not endure in our faith until we meet him face to face. But in spite of the importance of faith and hope, love is even more crucial.

Because without love, the Bible teaches there can be no redemption. In Scripture we learn that God is love (1 John 4:8) and that he sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to die for us — a supreme act of sacrificial love. Love is what motivated God the Father to send His only Son to die for us. Thus, love is the virtue upon which all Christian faith and hope now stand.

For the believer, love is the foundation for every good thing in our lives. Without love, nothing else matters.

Just don't see love as a rule so can't see faith being a rule either.

The phrase just don't set well with me for some reason ;o) I'll pray about it.

Rule of Faith - Wikipedia

LoveGodsWord · Nov 1, 2021

rturner76 said:
So how did the Apostles have faith, they had no New Testament for 300 years. Are all of the Christians lacking faith in those first 300 years? No, so we know that faith requires more than just a Bible.

Good question. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles their bible was the old testament scriptures. So they all had scripture. It was these very scriptures that testified of Jesus as the coming Messiah and the Apostles and disciples believed God's Word from the scriptures of the old covenant pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation under the new covenant. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles and early disciples, God's people also had the spoken Words of Jesus, as well as the scriptures that testified of him. The gospels or the written words of Christ and the new covenant scriptures were also written in the the life time of the Apostles who were sharing Gods' Word which are now recorded for future generations to come and it is these scriptures that we have today that are provided in the new testament.

God bless.

pescador · Nov 1, 2021

tall73 said:
So since the highest authority of your denomination, the General Conference, of Seventh-day Adventists voted a statement which indicates Ellen White's Writings carry divine authority for doctrine, how do you relate that to the only rule of faith?

A Statement of Confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy

As Seventh-day Adventists, we believe that "in His Word God has committed to men the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are to be accepted as an authoritative, infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the revealer of doctrines, and the test of experience" (The Great Controversy, p 7). We consider the biblical canon closed. However, we also believe, as did Ellen G White's contemporaries, that her writings carry divine authority, both for godly living and for doctrine.

Aren't the last two statements contradictory? The Biblical canon is closed but Ellen G White's carry divine authority? Would you add her writings to the Bible?

tall73 · Nov 1, 2021

pescador said:
Aren't the last two statements contradictory? The Biblical canon is closed but Ellen G White's carry divine authority? Would you add her writings to the Bible?

I was previously a Seventh-day Adventists, but am no longer. I do not agree that her writings have any authority.

However, Adventists claim otherwise. Here are some more of their officially voted statements:

The Seventh-day Adventist Church Fundamental belief #18 indicates that the writings of Ellen White speak with "prophetic authority."

https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

The Gift of Prophecy
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)

Statement of Confidence in the Writings of Ellen G White - Adventist.org

We reaffirm our conviction that her writings are divinely inspired, truly Christ-centered, and Bible-based. Rather than replacing the Bible, they uplift the normative character of Scripture and correct inaccurate interpretations of it derived from tradition, human reason, personal experience, and modern culture.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 1, 2021

eleos1954 said:
Just don't see love as a rule so can't see faith being a rule either. The phrase just don't set well with me for some reason ;o) I'll pray about it. Rule of Faith - Wikipedia

I agree with most of your post thanks eleos for sharing those wonderful thoughts on love. I will just make a comment on the last section. Without God and faith the scriptures teach we do not have the love of God in us...

John 5:42 But I know you, that you have not the love of God in you. (see also Jeremiah 17:9-10; Isaiah 1:5-6 and Jeremiah 13:23)

This is why Jesus says truly, truly I say unto you unless a man is born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven (John 3:3-7).

We need to be born again into Gods' new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. According to the scriptures those who are born again to love do not knowingly practice sin...

1 John 3:4 [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The reason those who are born of God are not practicing sin is because His Seed remain in them through faith which is the Word of God....

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

This is why it is written further in John....

1 John 5:2-4 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3], For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.[4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

So the victory that brings love is faith in God's Word which is the seed that remains in those who believe and follow what God's Word says. This is why the scriptures are the only rule of faith because the scriptures lead us to Christ and as we believe Gods' Word God's saves us (John 17:17) by His grace *Ephesians 2:8-9.

God bless.

rturner76 · Nov 1, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Good question. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles their bible was the old testament scriptures. So they all had scripture. It was these very scriptures that testified of Jesus as the coming Messiah and the Apostles and disciples believed God's Word from the scriptures of the old covenant pointed to Jesus the God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles and early disciples God's people also had the spoken Words of Jesus as well as the scriptures that testified of him. The gospels of the written words of Christ and the new covenant scriptures were also written in the the life time of the Apostles who were sharing Gods' Word and recorded for future generations to come and it is these scriptures that we have today that are provided in the new testament.

God bless.

Yes, they wrote the Epistles and the Gospel was an oral tradition until 60-100 AD when the Gospels were written down. That is why we believe in scripture and tradition because the oral tradition was just as important as the written word in the early days.

tall73 · Nov 1, 2021

pescador said:
Aren't the last two statements contradictory? The Biblical canon is closed but Ellen G White's carry divine authority?

If spiritual gifts continue then there could be prophets, but their words would not be part of Scripture.

I don't have an issue with prophecy in that regard. But it must be tested in every respect.

And they note that Scripture is to be the rule to test by. Ellen White said this as well.

But in practice that has been difficult in the case of Ellen White's writings.

This creates a two-tier view of inspiration for testing purposes that looks something like this:

Bible tests all things - Above Ellen White's writings for testing

Ellen White's writings - Below the Scriptures for purposes of testing

However, in practice we see something different. If her writings are inspired, and they comment on a Bible passage then Adventists take her interpretation of a Bible passage as inspired.

And in that case you are actually placing her writings above the Bible for purposes of testing. Anyone presenting Bible evidence is seen as personal interpretation/not inspired, while Ellen White's comments are seen as inspired.

So what we wind up with is:

Ellen White's inspired commentary about Bible passages - "corrects" interpretations.

Presented Bible evidence--considered inaccurate interpretations to be corrected.

And Ellen White seems to apply similar logic in her own day in this statement:

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}

She appeals to their experience, rather than to the Scripture as a test.

Now for his own part LGW in another thread said the following, which I am curious to see how he relates to the idea of the Scriptures being the test:

LoveGodsWord said:
Perhaps because there is as the bible says "every wind of doctrine" (Ephesians 4:14) seeking to deceive if possible God's very elect just as the bible teaches *Matthew 24:24. This is how it is today is it not with as some estimate over 40,000 different Christian religions in the world today? All I see in those statement is that her writing are more like an inspired bible commentary.

He acknowledged, in reference to the official Adventist statements, that she would be like an inspired Bible commentary.

tall73 · Nov 1, 2021

pescador said:
Aren't the last two statements contradictory? The Biblical canon is closed but Ellen G White's carry divine authority? Would you add her writings to the Bible?

The amount of Ellen White's writings which they see speaking with divine authority are considerable, and touch on many aspects of life.

This photo below is dated as the Ellen White estate has released even more manuscripts since then online.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 1, 2021

rturner76 said:
Yes, they wrote the Epistles and the Gospel was an oral tradition until 60-100 AD when the Gospels were written down. That is why we believe in scripture and tradition because the oral tradition was just as important as the written word in the early days.

Thanks for sharing your view rturner76 and I do not believe there is anything wrong with tradition as long as it does not lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God like Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:2-9. Where I think we might differ here though is that Jesus and the Apostles always had scripture and the new testament was only taken out of the old testament. So scripture was always present and it was the scriptures in the old testament that give us the scriptures in the new testament and the very Words of Jesus who is the Living Word of God and the God of all creation. This is why the OP is showing that the scriptures are the only rule for faith as our faith today comes from the scriptures.

God bless.

Hammster · Nov 1, 2021

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THE RULE OF FAITH AND PRACTICE IS ALWAYS SCRIPTURE "ALONE"

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