Right Effort

Tellyontellyon · Oct 29, 2021

I'm interested in sanctification...
It's something that Jesus does to you, you don't make it happen yourself? You have to stay faithful though?

I'm wondering what that is like in people's experience here... could people please describe this process as they have experienced it themselves.

Are there similarities with the twelve step program where things are handed over to a higher power?

Would love to here what this is like in practice

Pavel Mosko · Oct 29, 2021

Things are a process that is a major theme in Christianity especially the eastern end of it. This sermon I listened today fits some of that.

But one of the major themes of the Bible not really covered in my opinion is the nature of the Faith as a journey etc. It basically reminds me of this thread I had a while back see next post.

Pavel Mosko · Oct 29, 2021

Here is what I said in another thread about the journey idea

Besides that, this model misses out on God's teaching us "the deeper lessons". God acts more like a Postmodernist than a modernist, in the classic saying "It's not about the End, it’s about the Journey". Much of what God does in the Bible is to teach us "About His ways" and his nature (“Economy” is the theological term for this). Things often are not really about the task at hand. So a Utilitarian only sees something like God's prohibition against eating pork in the OT as about "protecting them from eating something that could make them sick before the days of refrigeration". But someone with a more (true) Apostolic background would realize that God gave them that command, because he realized they would recognize the allegory in the old sense of "You are what you eat", and the pig of course in ancient and contemporary times is the incarnation of greed and gluttony and selfishness. Another example is the trip from Egypt to the Promised land. That should have only been two weeks but God went out of his way to make it last 40 years because the journey was more about unspoken objectives like establishing faith in God and teaching the people of Israel his ways than moving to the destination.

PS - After the fact, I realize that the saying "It's not about the End, it’s about the Journey". Does not apply to our Faith and the nature of the afterlife!

Independent Contractors for Christ (limitations of utilitarian Ecclesiology)

anna ~ grace · Oct 29, 2021

It’s both something Christ does within us, and something we cooperate with. It’s a journey. The longer we are on it, the more we realize how tiny and sinful we are, and how great His love is. That might sound negative at first, but it’s deeply humbling, positive, and beautiful.

Trusting in Him · Oct 29, 2021

God has chosen those who will fully commit their lives to him to be His bride. It should not surprise us that He needs to perfect us for this role. We are to be spotless and without wrinkle. Sanctification is being set aside for him. We are to be vessels fit for the masters use! To be fully surendered to Him will cost us everything.

Shall the pot say to the potter why have you made me thus? Jesus gave up His earthly life for us. That's some commitment, aren't we supposed to be totally commited to Him as well. Sanctification is an act of the will on our part and we commit ourselves to Him not knowing what it going to cost us.

Is it not the response of our hearts to His heart for us! I think so!

Mayflower1 · Oct 29, 2021

Sanctification is the process of transformation, becoming to look like Jesus basically. It is not just change, it is like cocoon to butterfly sort of thing. While change is outward and temporary, transformation/sanctification is inward and permanent.

Mayflower1 · Oct 29, 2021

Sanctification is living what the Bible says even when your flesh and emotions want to do the exact opposite. The more that faith comes from living God's Word, the more inward change takes place. It really is God working in us as we strive to follow after Him. I am not who I was ten plus years ago by the grace of God. Still being sanctified. It is a life long process as you grow in Christ.

St_Worm2 · Oct 29, 2021

Hello @Tellyontellyon, sanctification (spiritual growth), unlike justification (spiritual birth), is referred to as being synergistic, because it's something that (as others have already mentioned) God enables us/allows us to be part of. God is still the One who is ultimately responsible for our sanctification, but unlike justification (salvation), which is a monergistic work that He must do alone, in sanctification, God allows us to come alongside of Him and work with Him (if you will) to the end of that we become more and more Christlike (holy/righteous), and less and less sinful :oldthumbsup:

As the Apostle Paul tells us regarding sanctification (in small part),

Philippians 1
6 I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

So, it is in sanctification that we "work out"/express in action/express outwardly the salvation that God has already 'worked into' us .. cf John 5:24, by the mighty work that He accomplished in our hearts and minds when He caused us to be born again (made us alive, spiritually, in Christ .. Ezekiel 36:27-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-5) and then brought us to saving faith in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

--David

Trusting in Him · Oct 29, 2021

As Mayflower has said "It is a life long process as you grow in Christ".

Yes, I think so too!

com7fy8 · Oct 29, 2021

Yes, Jesus does what God wants. We can not get our own selves to do what really satisfies God. But we depend on Jesus > "we who first trusted in Christ" > in Ephesians 1:12.

Yes, we need to stay faithful. And faithful does not only mean we keep on believing Gospel beliefs. But Jesus wants us to love the way God's word means for us to love. This comes with God changing our character so we do this.

d taylor · Oct 29, 2021

If you have the reading time, here is 1 - 5 parts on sanctification

We Believe In: Sanctification Part 1: Introduction – Grace Evangelical Society

We Believe In: Sanctification – Part 2: Past Sanctification – Grace Evangelical Society

We Believe In: Sanctification – Part 3: Present Sanctification God’s Role in Present Sanctification – Grace Evangelical Society

Sanctification – Part 4: Man’s Role in Present Sanctification – Grace Evangelical Society

We Believe In: Sanctification Part 5: Future Sanctification: Perfect, or Ultimate, Sanctification – Grace Evangelical Society

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 29, 2021

This is going to sound strange but bear with me. Technically, for me, sanctification is synergistic but I just don't tell myself that. Lol.
I am high octane: always moving, trying to achieve a goal. It's bad, I can't even enjoy working a puzzle bc I am too focused on the completed result. So essentially, everything turns into a sort of 'striving' for me. That's why I can't let myself acknowledge that there is a part of me that is moving with God: my sanctification will lose it's focus on God and become about me and -goals-.
But I also acknowledge that I am not a bump on a log; that I have life and breath ect. So: synergy. Hopefully, one of these days I will get to the point of experiencing God as easily as I experience my heart beat or as normal people experience breathing.
Even still, God's providence over-arches me and oversees all things, including my inclination to struggle. I am still being sanctified in other words even though I fight against it. I say, 'fight against it', bc I will never become perfected by my own innate drive toward all that is holy. Holiness is a state of being, being at one with God. It's not a success story. Only by dying will I rise, only by losing will I find. It is my prayer that God continues to kill the self-centeredness in me and that he will cause me to rest in him.

Tellyontellyon · Oct 30, 2021

This sounds like it has similar aspects to Buddhism. By letting go of grasping for something you connect more, not less.
For Buddhists, our natural state is Buddha Nature: the unlimited capacity for love, wisdom and the ability to help others.
We would naturally be that but it is obscured by greed, desire, jealousy, hatred and ignorance... if the ego can be dropped then it's like the clouds move past the sun and then our true reality becomes apparent.

Thank you for talking about what sanctification is like personally on the inside for you... (and for reading the question )

Mayflower1 · Oct 30, 2021

I guess it is easy for me to go into the what it is rather then the personal experience of it. :/ In Christianity, we are all members of one body, so our experience is sort of the same in a way. But it does go deeper past the what.

For me it really was the process like a caterpillar goes to a butterfly. Like in a cocoon, everything is broken down. It really becomes like a mush bag. God had to break everything down in me through His Word and Holy Spirit. I had a lot of unforgiveness, fear, and sin in my life. Sometimes I had to "faith it till I made it." I had to do the Word because I knew it was the right way. But eventually my desires lined up to what God's desires were (still are. Like now my family and I do not do Halloween). I self injured for ten years. Went into a few years of faith based recovery programs to focus on the Bible and work through past hurts. I haven't been the same after that. But I know that I'm always seeking after God to be like Him like a child tries to be like their parents.

I like the part about the ego. Christians call that the flesh nature. Though I would say Christians also have the faith meter versus the doubt meter. The more we believe in God's Word and that His promises are true, the more we want to live the Word of God. Whatever someone believes will color their life view and everything they do and say. And for Christians, sin has a penalty and it had to be paid for on the cross. The sanctification process is one of gratitude and knowing it is for our good to follow God's ways.

Tellyontellyon · Oct 30, 2021

Thank you for that. I struggle a little with people's answers sometimes as they seem to sometimes give stock answers using certain language and phrases, that to an outsider, can be a bit obscure. I know many things go beyond words, but I find if people talk more about themselves and use their own language, then I can understand more of what they mean.
And it really isn't so straightforward as some think, it's easy to subtly misunderstand. So thank you again for
helping and sharing yourself.

Every religion had it's own lingo, but we all feel pain, we all suffer, we all have human experiences.. the heart has its own language.

Mayflower1 · Oct 30, 2021

True. I saw this one video before by the skit guys on Christian lingo and how it looks like to people not in the Christian faith.

I couldn't find that one and it might not be funny to you anyway, because you have to understand the true meanings, but this is a good one on sanctification. I think a lot of Christians can relate to this. But goes into the more personal aspect of it. You might find it cool.

Mayflower1 · Oct 30, 2021

Okay I wish I could find that other one, but this short and sweet just for fun. Lol...

eleos1954 · Oct 30, 2021

sanctification.

It’s the reciprocation of our love toward God. We are sanctified with the help of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) that Jesus gives us. Sanctification means to set a part or to make holy. His Holy Spirit helps us in this process to become more like Christ. This is not a one time event; it’s a life long process (we stumble here and there). The process of sanctifying and purifying us (the works that Jesus does in the believer, and is not of ourselves) ... it is HIM working in us and through us. We are separated from the world. We are in the physical world but not of the world spiritually. Our mind (thinking) changes over time and therefore our actions also change. Our faith increases more and more as He faithfully works in us. Hebrews 12:2

Sketcher · Oct 30, 2021

I obey God, and cooperate with him. He does everything else.

Tellyontellyon · Oct 31, 2021

How do you cooperate, what do you mean?

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