Covid-19 & discernible relationship between % of population fully vaccinated & new COVID-19 cases

KCfromNC

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Only as many as the CDC and MSM will allow you to know about. The rest are anecdotal, questionable, unscientific, conspiracy theories, attributed to some other cause, or the product of the imagination of anti-vaxxers.
Hopefully everyone sees that the first sentence contradicts the second. The first seems to imply some sort of actions to cover up deaths, while the second is working from the premise that the deaths are reported and then explained away. I mean, if I were going to go with the idea that there's a giant conspiracy, I'd at least pick one and stick with it rather than making up two contradictory ones in the very same 2 sentence paragraph.
 
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KCfromNC

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It is much more likely that the vast majority of those coincidences were just coincidences than that the CDC together with media could engineer such a secure conspiracy.
Especially given the existence of the paper talked about in the OP, which is an article which a) appears to question the mainstream narrative on vaccines and b) hasn't been suppressed or hidden by a government conspiracy. The entire premise of the thread shows that these conspiracy theories run counter to reality.
 
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sfs

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i doubt they would be honest about in it the first place, vaccinations would come to a screeching halt. there has been reported deaths but as usual they place spins on it to no end.
Yeah, now you've gone from a reasonable debate about public policy -- what kinds of risk should we be willing to make people undertake for the good of the whole -- to insane conspiracy mongering. Bye.
 
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whatbogsends

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...obvious conspiracy theory with no support....

I've cited numerous anecdotes in which the person died days or even hours after vaccination with no other known cause, and every time, government officials declare (usually without autopsy) no link to vaccine could be established. Even in a scenario in which the persons family did get an autopsy which indicated vaccine induced complications, the "official" categorization was "no link could be established".

Some doctors have spoken out, citing their specific experiences with side effects and they, too, are ignored.

When you control how the data is recorded, it's easy to make the data support your claims.
 
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whatbogsends

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Follow the statistics: In an average year, 2.8 million people die from all causes. In the past year, 190 million Americans were fully vaccinated. Many of those received two shots. Suppose we say then that 250 million shots have been given. Are you surprised then that a certain number of those 250 million shots just happened to coincide with one of the 2.8 million deaths that were going to happen anyway? Statistically it is almost a certainty that many such coincidences would occur. It is much more likely that the vast majority of those coincidences were just coincidences than that the CDC together with media could engineer such a secure conspiracy. That is much more of a reach than the fact that some coincidences occurred.

There were also 200 million people who got flu shots. Yet somehow, the vast, vast majority of the "coincidences" occurred in temporal proximity to the Covid vaccines and not the flu vaccines, at an adjusted rate (for number of shots given) of over 35 to 1.

United Airlines to fire 593 unvaccinated employees

While there has been a significant amount of handwaving away of VAERS data or arguments such as yours made above, there's been nothing to explain the stark contrast between rates reports of serious adverse effects (hospitalization and death) between the Covid vaccines and other vaccines. That contrast does not only exist in VAERS, but in UK's Yellowcard and Europe's Eudra Vigilance systems as well.

Yes, i'm aware of the limitations of VAERS, but it's the primary source of data in the US for adverse events reported for vaccines. The CDC has used VAERS data in their studies when it suits their purposes. Yale epidemiologist Harvey Risch and UCLA epidemiologist Joseph Lapedo cited VAERS as part of his assessment of vaccine safety.

Opinion | Are Covid Vaccines Riskier Than Advertised?
 
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LeafByNiggle

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I've cited numerous anecdotes in which the person died days or even hours after vaccination with no other known cause...
How numerous? In fact only 3 people are known to have died from a cause directly attributed to the vaccine - out of hundreds of millions of vaccine dose given.

, and every time, government officials declare (usually without autopsy) no link to vaccine could be established.
...probably because there was no link to the vaccine.

Even in a scenario in which the persons family did get an autopsy which indicated vaccine induced complications, the "official" categorization was "no link could be established".
I'm sure you are misrepresenting the facts.

Some doctors have spoken out...
Cherry-picking again?

When you control how the data is recorded, it's easy to make the data support your claims.
When you control the way anecdotal stories are presented, it's easy to spread doubt, as we have seen here.
 
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LeafByNiggle

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There were also 200 million people who got flu shots. Yet somehow, the vast, vast majority of the "coincidences" occurred in temporal proximity to the Covid vaccines and not the flu vaccines, at an adjusted rate (for number of shots given) of over 35 to 1.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...inated-employees.8224391/reply?quote=76283683
Your link does not work. I was not able to verify the statistic claimed above.

While there has been a significant amount of handwaving away of VAERS data or arguments such as yours made above, there's been nothing to explain the stark contrast between rates reports of serious adverse effects (hospitalization and death) between the Covid vaccines and other vaccines.
That's because there is no "stark contrast."

Yes, i'm aware of the limitations of VAERS, but it's the primary source of data in the US for adverse events reported for vaccines.
...the primary source for medical investigators to investigate further. And they do. So far they have found a total of 3 deaths attributable to side effects of the vaccine.

The CDC has used VAERS data in their studies when it suits their purposes.
There is only one valid purpose for the VAERS, and that is to provide a starting point for subsequent investigations. It should not be used as it to drawn any conclusions whatsoever, as it clearly says on the VAERS disclaimer.
Yale epidemiologist Harvey Risch and UCLA epidemiologist Joseph Lapedo cited VAERS as part of his assessment of vaccine safety.

Opinion | Are Covid Vaccines Riskier Than Advertised?
...so why is it listed in the opinion section of the Wall Street Journal rather than as a peer-reviewed study in the Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine? Because it is an opinion. And a cherry-picked one at that.
 
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BrotherJJ

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What some people are struggling with is that a vaccinated person is much less likely to get infected and much less likely to spread the disease.

Posted OP article disagrees with your statement. The virus load is reduced (a good thing) for the vaccinated. Vaccinated people can still get & transmit covid-19.

I believe we should use that info wisely, NOT, be forced to vaccinate.
 
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BrotherJJ

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One of the many mysteries of the modern age.
Get the shot so you can return to normal. But wear a mask so you don't transmit the disease that you're immune from getting in the first place. Then get a booster for the original shots that already give you a 95% chance of avoiding infection and 100% chance of avoiding death, even though plenty of people who are "fully vaccinated" (a soon to be redefined term) are dying of Covid.

Lots of redefining going on these days LOL.

If vaccinated people can spread the virus as stated by Pfizer director Rochelle Walensky in the OP article. What difference does it make to me if anyone else is vaccinated?
 
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BrotherJJ

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Only as many as the CDC and MSM will allow you to know about. The rest are anecdotal, questionable, unscientific, conspiracy theories, attributed to some other cause, or the product of the imagination of anti-vaxxers.

I've been vaccinated (will get another booster if/when available) & believe it helps protect me from covid's punch.

The article (5 country's noted) cites vaccinated or not. People can contract & transfer the covid virus.

Seems to me the get vaccinated or else groupies are the anecdotal, questionable, unscientific, conspiracy theorist.
 
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A_Thinker

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Posted OP article disagrees with your statement. The virus load is reduced (a good thing) for the vaccinated. Vaccinated people can still get & transmit covid-19.
If the viral load is reduced, ... there's less virus to transmit ... or get sick from ...
 
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NxNW

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To be clear, I received 2 shots in April 2021.WHY all the punitive punishments (example: loss of one's livelihood/job) against those that choose not to participate in this experimental drug?

What experimental drug?
 
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stevil

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Posted OP article disagrees with your statement. The virus load is reduced (a good thing) for the vaccinated.

If we are interested in talking about and discovering facts, I don't think we should just cherry pick one study, especially when that study contradicts many others.

Vaccinated people can still get & transmit covid-19.
If we want to engage in honest discourse, we need to be clear and specific about our statements.
Noone is denying that vaccinated people aren't immune from catching and passing on covid.
There are some breakthrough cases.
 
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Aldebaran

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Most countries are doing 2 shots on Pfizer.
I have heard about an extra booster for those that are most vulnerable.

It was the "most vulnerable" who were first offered the original shots, then everyone else. Then it was no longer offered, but mandated.
Now comes the booster being offered to the most vulnerable.....
 
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stevil

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It was the "most vulnerable" who were first offered the original shots, then everyone else. Then it was no longer offered, but mandated.
Now comes the booster being offered to the most vulnerable.....
Yes, when the vaccine first came out they offered it first to the most vulnerable, I think we can all guess why.

And of course I think we can all guess why the boosters are first offered to the most vulnerable.
 
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whatbogsends

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Your link does not work. I was not able to verify the statistic claimed above.

That's because there is no "stark contrast."

...the primary source for medical investigators to investigate further. And they do. So far they have found a total of 3 deaths attributable to side effects of the vaccine.

There is only one valid purpose for the VAERS, and that is to provide a starting point for subsequent investigations. It should not be used as it to drawn any conclusions whatsoever, as it clearly says on the VAERS disclaimer.

...so why is it listed in the opinion section of the Wall Street Journal rather than as a peer-reviewed study in the Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine? Because it is an opinion. And a cherry-picked one at that.

I fixed the link.

As far as "there's no stark contrast", that's a downright falsehood.

There have been more deaths reported to VAERS for the Covid vaccines this year than all other vaccines combined from 1990-2020.

As i demonstrated, in the linked post there's a clear rate of at least 35-40X more reported serious side effects reported from Covid vaccines than flu vaccines from 2020-2021.

Your entire rebuttal is "don't look at VAERS".
 
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Yes, when the vaccine first came out they offered it first to the most vulnerable, I think we can all guess why.

And of course I think we can all guess why the boosters are first offered to the most vulnerable.

The point I was making is that the vaccine first went to the most vulnerable, then the public, and then became mandatory. The boosters are going down the same path.
And BTW, now that we live in the age of changing definitions whenever it keeps a certain narrative going, the CDC wants to change the definition of "fully vaccinated". Right now it means getting both of the Moderna or Pfizer shots, or the one J&J. They now want to expand that to however many boosters they want you to have as well. IOW, you're fully vaccinated until they mandate that you come back for more.
Definition of 'fully vaccinated' could change, CDC chief says. Here's what that means
 
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