The book of Hebrews

SabbathBlessings · Oct 28, 2021

Gregorikos said:
Noah was not a false prophet, but Ellen G. White was. Ellen G. Her promotion of Sabbath-keeping as a primary doctrine in the church goes against the clear teaching of the New Testament on the matter (Romans 14:5). Her “revelation” that hell is not eternal contradicts Jesus’ words concerning “eternal punishment” in Matthew 25:46. Her teaching that the sins of believers will be placed on Satan, the “scapegoat” (The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485), is the opposite of what the Bible says about who bore our sins (see 1 Peter 2:24). Her identification of Jesus as Michael the archangel (Jude 1:9, Clear Word Bible, published by Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1994) is a denial of the true nature of Christ. Her repudiation of the verbal inspiration of the Bible (Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 21 Manuscript 24, 1886) is at variance with passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and Psalm 12:6.

You are taking this off topic but let me explain though scripture why your argument is not biblical.
Romans 14:5 does not say the 4th commandment is deleted and we are now to keep the first day as a new day of worship. The disciples are talking about the holy annual feast days, which ended see Hebrews 10 and Colossians 2:14 with Jesus as our perfect sacrifice. It is not talking about one of the Ten Commandments and the holy day of the Lord thy God and the day God commanded us to keep holy. Genesis 2:1-1, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13. Breaking one of the commandments of God is like breaking them all James 2:11-12. Sin is breaking any of the commandments of God even in the New testament. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 Paul tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19 which includes the 4th commandment.

The punishment for sin is "eternal" you will be eternally dead, not punishing forever.

Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it" (Isaiah 47:14)

"I saw a new heaven and a new earth. … And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Revelation 21:1, 4).

"Behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. … And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts" (Malachi 4:1, 3).

The Bible specifically teaches that hellfire will go out. The Bible also teaches that in God's new kingdom, all "former things" will pass away. Hellfire, being one of the former things, is included. Notice also that Malachi 4:1-3 says that the wicked will be stubble, having burned “them up.” The little word "up" denotes completion. Nothing but ashes will be left when the fire goes out — the wicked are completely destroyed (Psalm 37:10, 20).

You are taking EW out of context and we are accountable for our own actions. Satan is a deceiver and deceives the whole world including this false teaching that God's Ten Commandments including the 4th commandment ended which is easily disputed by Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12, Revelations 22:14-15, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, James 2:10-11, Matthew 24:20, Isaiah 66:23

The SDA does not believe that Jesus is an angel. Jesus goes by many names in the bible and is the Creator of all things. Hope this helps. God bless

Leaf473 · Oct 28, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
The book of Hebrews ~ modified~ and why I believe it to be written by Priscilla, besides

Priscilla as the author of Hebrews? I like it.

I like the idea of a woman being an author of the scriptures.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 28, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
You are taking this off topic but let me explain though scripture why your argument is not biblical.
Romans 14:5 does not say the 4th commandment is deleted and we are now to keep the first day as a new day of worship. The disciples are talking about the holy annual feast days, which ended see Hebrews 10 and Colossians 2:14 with Jesus as our perfect sacrifice. It is not talking about one of the Ten Commandments and the holy day of the Lord thy God and the day God commanded us to keep holy. Genesis 2:1-1, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13. Breaking one of the commandments of God is like breaking them all James 2:11-12. Sin is breaking any of the commandments of God even in the New testament. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 Paul tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19 which includes the 4th commandment.

The punishment for sin is "eternal" you will be eternally dead, not punishing forever.

Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it" (Isaiah 47:14)

"I saw a new heaven and a new earth. … And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Revelation 21:1, 4).

"Behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. … And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts" (Malachi 4:1, 3).

The Bible specifically teaches that hellfire will go out. The Bible also teaches that in God's new kingdom, all "former things" will pass away. Hellfire, being one of the former things, is included. Notice also that Malachi 4:1-3 says that the wicked will be stubble, having burned “them up.” The little word "up" denotes completion. Nothing but ashes will be left when the fire goes out — the wicked are completely destroyed (Psalm 37:10, 20).

You are taking EW out of context and we are accountable for our own actions. Satan is a deceiver and deceives the whole world including this false teaching that God's Ten Commandments including the 4th commandment ended which is easily disputed by Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12, Revelations 22:14-15, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, James 2:10-11, Matthew 24:20, Isaiah 66:23

The SDA does not believe that Jesus is an angel. Jesus goes by many names in the bible and is the Creator of all things. Hope this helps. God bless

Of course it’s off-topic and why it shouldn’t be indulged in.

It's very hard to convince anyone of Christian status while being contemptious of others in the sight of mankind, never mind in the eyes of God. For that reason I think of the "Our Father" prayer as being a teaching tool for daily living that every believer must partake of daily, like a picking up the cross of forgiveness and leading forward. The "high priestly prayer" of John 17 is the greater prayer for the new royal priesthood because within is the prayer for Father and Son glorified. That is our mission is it not? Shouldn't we be praying to reflect glory in our lives to Him who is effecting the change?

Going to our mediator Christ places self and God in the rightful position afforded the priestly kingdom today. The willing vessel's honor or dishonor is in obedience to our Head in preparation for good work useful to the Master. For God made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. This is daily honoring God (spiritually) bringing our thoughts focused on Him (intellectually) again daily taking up our cross. And resting (bodily) one day in seven is God's fullness of care for the whole person. Being unreasonably attached to yesterday when it is today makes no sence to me.

The keyword is 'making perfect' which is God's intent for mankind. The priesthood is still the method that we see Christ working in, but the Levitical priesthood was not capable of accomplishing God's task. Our High Priest first accomplished perfection in Himself by perfect obedience to the Father, thereby becoming the perfect sacrifice. Now a New Covenant is needed to bring about perfection for us. The book of Romans reads very much like a courtcase with the sinner on trial and the redeemer sets him free. Here we see Christ's case being presented in the book of Hebrews to show what He produces in mankind.

The 'law' said Levites must be priests, so to change priests is to change law so that Christ is able to serve in that capacity. He was not of 'that tribe'. The greatest proof of that change is in the prophesy that another priest is to arise in the order of Melchesedec making it evident that the old Levitical law has been abrogated. His appointment is based not on temporary service but on the power of an endless life.

Sacrifices were to be made daily with killing of animals for the person to walk away forgiven. There was no end to sacrifices according to that system. If they could have made the people perfect then they would not have had to cease. So a better hope is introduced, thru which we draw near to God The hope is now in Christ, not on sacrifices made. Christ's appointment was confirmed with an oath from God, something the old priests did not have.

`Our Father`` delineates us perfectly because in that we proclaim and confess our union with God and other disciples as well as admitting our own place in the family of God.

Aligning with His Name as Holy gives admittance into that program for His Family as being set apart in purpose for enlightenment, set apart from that which is unholy or uses God`s Name in vain. The ideal given to Israel was that they would be a distinct model to other nations of a people led in all matters social and political.

That really leaves no room to place another mediator in the position of Christ, whether it's using the name of a women such as Ellen White or a man such as Luther or Calvin etc. The emphasis in the 'Our Father' places the onus on individuals not the nation or section of exclusiveness anyone may aspire to be counted in. The hope of glory is only in giving glory to Whom it is due.

Gregorikos said:
Noah was not a false prophet, but Ellen G. White was. Ellen G. Her promotion of Sabbath-keeping as a primary doctrine in the church goes against the clear teaching of the New Testament on the matter (Romans 14:5). Her “revelation” that hell is not eternal contradicts Jesus’ words concerning “eternal punishment” in Matthew 25:46. Her teaching that the sins of believers will be placed on Satan, the “scapegoat” (The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485), is the opposite of what the Bible says about who bore our sins (see 1 Peter 2:24). Her identification of Jesus as Michael the archangel (Jude 1:9, Clear Word Bible, published by Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1994) is a denial of the true nature of Christ. Her repudiation of the verbal inspiration of the Bible (Selected Messages, Book 1, p. 21 Manuscript 24, 1886) is at variance with passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and Psalm 12:6.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 28, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
Of course it’s off-topic and why it shouldn’t be indulged in.

It's very hard to convince anyone of Christian status while being contemptious of others in the sight of mankind, never mind in the eyes of God. For that reason I think of the "Our Father" prayer as being a teaching tool for daily living that every believer must partake of daily, like a picking up the cross of forgiveness and leading forward. The "high priestly prayer" of John 17 is the greater prayer for the new royal priesthood because within is the prayer for Father and Son glorified. That is our mission is it not? Shouldn't we be praying to reflect glory in our lives to Him who is effecting the change?

Going to our mediator Christ places self and God in the rightful position afforded the priestly kingdom today. The willing vessel's honor or dishonor is in obedience to our Head in preparation for good work useful to the Master. For God made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. This is daily honoring God (spiritually) bringing our thoughts focused on Him (intellectually) again daily taking up our cross. And resting (bodily) one day in seven is God's fullness of care for the whole person. Being unreasonably attached to yesterday when it is today makes no sence to me.

The keyword is 'making perfect' which is God's intent for mankind. The priesthood is still the method that we see Christ working in, but the Levitical priesthood was not capable of accomplishing God's task. Our High Priest first accomplished perfection in Himself by perfect obedience to the Father, thereby becoming the perfect sacrifice. Now a New Covenant is needed to bring about perfection for us. The book of Romans reads very much like a courtcase with the sinner on trial and the redeemer sets him free. Here we see Christ's case being presented in the book of Hebrews to show what He produces in mankind.

The 'law' said Levites must be priests, so to change priests is to change law so that Christ is able to serve in that capacity. He was not of 'that tribe'. The greatest proof of that change is in the prophesy that another priest is to arise in the order of Melchesedec making it evident that the old Levitical law has been abrogated. His appointment is based not on temporary service but on the power of an endless life.

Sacrifices were to be made daily with killing of animals for the person to walk away forgiven. There was no end to sacrifices according to that system. If they could have made the people perfect then they would not have had to cease. So a better hope is introduced, thru which we draw near to God The hope is now in Christ, not on sacrifices made. Christ's appointment was confirmed with an oath from God, something the old priests did not have.

`Our Father`` delineates us perfectly because in that we proclaim and confess our union with God and other disciples as well as admitting our own place in the family of God.

Aligning with His Name as Holy gives admittance into that program for His Family as being set apart in purpose for enlightenment, set apart from that which is unholy or uses God`s Name in vain. The ideal given to Israel was that they would be a distinct model to other nations of a people led in all matters social and political. That really leaves no room to place another mediator in the position of Christ, whether it's using the name of a women such as Ellen White or a man such as Luther or Calvin etc. The emphasis in the 'Our Father' places the onus on individuals not the nation or section of exclusiveness anyone may aspire to be counted in. The hope of glory is only in giving glory to Whom it is due.

No SDA teaches that Ellen White replaces Jesus and is our mediator. Ellen White does not define her role as such either, she called herself a messenger and states over and over everything must be tested by scripture. Of course Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and He is also our Advocate and I am certainly not disputing these wonderful facts. God bless

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 28, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
No SDA teaches that Ellen White replaces Jesus and is our mediator. Ellen White does not define her role as such either, she called herself a messenger and states over and over everything must be tested by scripture. Of course Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and He is also our Advocate and I am certainly not disputing this wonderful fact. God bless

Wrong thread to be posting in then. Please don’t propagate your propaganda, thanks. Your wording leaves room for doubt. This is a thread about Christ, it’s not meant to deify Priscilla. Paul or otherwise.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 28, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
Wrong thread to be posting in then. Please don’t propagate your propaganda, thanks.

I was directly relying to your post.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 28, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I was directly relying to your post.

Ok thanks. I’ve lost interest in the argument anyway :wave:

Leaf473 · Oct 28, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
For that reason I think of the "Our Father" prayer as being a teaching tool for daily living that every believer must partake of daily, like a picking up the cross of forgiveness and leading forward.

Wow! I had the same realization recently.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Oct 28, 2021

Leaf473 said:
Wow! I had the same realization recently.

It ties in with the High Priestly prayer of John 17 also because one can’t pray that w/o acknowledging Jesus of Nazareth’s place within it according to discipleship wherein there is neither Jew, Greek, bond, free, male, female, as nothing counts accept the new creation.

"25 “Righteous Father, the world does not know You, but I know You; and these know that You have sent Me.”
26 I made your name known to them, and I will make it known, so that the love with which You have loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

The child’s song Trust and Obey cause there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus, than to trust and obey” comes to mind. Obedience is in finding the ability to be fully human as Jesus also learnt to trust the Father. He had to lean on the Spirit to gain understanding just as we need that too.
(with the possible exception of those things that were designated as signs)

I should add that in laying aside His majesty to take on the servant’s role He also left an example for us to lay aside any privilege that we feel we have a right to also and give glory to Whom glory is due, which is only Christ because w/o Him we can do nothing. That is what He exemplified in the Father/Son depiction of true humility as well.

Jipsah · Oct 28, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Most people made fun of Noah too.

Ms. White in the ship building business?

Jipsah · Oct 28, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
You are taking this off topic

Not really. The question was asked why one poster stated that St. Paul wrote Hebrews as a matter of fact, and I replied that it was because Ms. White said it. All on topic.

but let me explain

So now you're going to mount an altogether off-topic defence of 7th Day Adventism.

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The book of Hebrews

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