They Finally Just Out and Said It....

renniks

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2008
10,682
3,445
✟149,430.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Stop thinking for yourself!

These four words are helping spread vaccine misinformation - CNN

CNN doesn't want you doing your own research....after all, they think you're too dumb to do your own research.

It's nice to see CNN outright admit this is what they think of their readers.

They aren't alone though....

Opinion | Don’t Go Down the Rabbit Hole

Stop thinking critically! That's just going to lead you to more lies. The NYT knows that their readers don't need to think critically....they can't do it right anyway.

Personally, I think both CNN and the NYT have nothing to worry about. Their audience doesn't do their own research and definitely stopped thinking critically years ago. On here, I've seen multiple posters reject any story that comes from a source even mildly right leaning....despite the facts being verifiable. It happened twice to me in one week.

Thoughts?
Don't watch CNN, or any of the mainstream media.
 
Upvote 0

JustSomeBloke

Unacceptable Fringe Minority
Supporter
Sep 10, 2018
1,507
1,580
My Home
✟177,126.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Wow, you link to another thread that you started which links to this:
Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status, England - Office for National Statistics

Note that in that article, it says:
  • In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

  • The risk of death involving COVID-19 was consistently lower for people who had received two vaccinations compared to one or no vaccination, as shown by the weekly age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) for deaths involving COVID-19.
Do you realize that it takes about 2-3 weeks for the vaccine to get the immunity response it is for? Do you realize that the article does not clearly link the vaccine as to what the person died of?

The article does not say what you want it to say.
Of course I realise that it reportedly takes 2-3 weeks to achieve immune response. That's why we need a third category, so that those 36,000 post-vaccination deaths can be properly investigated, instead of just casually dismissing them as unvaccinated covid deaths or totally unrelated to the vaccination.

Do you realise that the symptoms of covid infection can be similar to those caused by vaccine adverse effects? Covid infection and the covid vaccine can both cause blood clotting. And blood clotting can cause shortness of breath if clots are present in the lungs, which is widely reported as a symptom of covid infection.

There is also the fact that some other very dangerous clotting-related adverse effects have been seen in young healthy people post-vaccination. It is a medical fact that those types of adverse effects require immediate medical attention, and are known to NEVER occur in healthy young people. The only possible explanation is that the covid vaccine caused it. But of course the MSM doesn't report those concerns, because it doesn't fit the 'vaccines good' narrative.

Furthermore, dismissing post-vaccination deaths as unvaccinated covid deaths is very easy to do in the UK, since the UK government changed the guidance on reporting and investigation of deaths. Covid was made a reportable disease, but the usual procedure of requiring investigation by a coroner, which would usually apply to reportable diseases and some types of deaths, was removed.

I find ignorance to be the larger problem anymore. Folks think they can diagnose and determine exactly what a person dies from an armchair will no medical background at all.

Versed (midazolam) has been used for calming ventilated patients for a several decades. The number of ventilated patients has been much higher in the last two years.
That article you linked to is from July 2020, nor is it definitively saying that euthanasia is occurring.
You are wrong, of course.
1. The midazolam prescriptions weren't for hospitals. It even says that in the article. It says out-of-hospital prescriptions. They were prescriptions for people in care homes. If someone is getting distressed in a care home because they can't breath, they need hospital treatment, not shoving over the edge with a large dose of midazolam.
2. Ventilators aren't used in care homes. As far as I am aware, in the UK, they are used in an intensive care environment, which means hospitals.

I have to saw though that if my 96 year old mom is gasping for breath, suffering and having a great deal of anxiety with it, I hope she gets some Versed to calm her down.
Midazolam depresses vital signs, such as respiration. If someone is struggling for breath, it will likely kill them. And in any case, if someone is intubated, they can't be distressed, because they are comatose, with a muscle relaxant so that their respiration can be done by positive pressure instead of diaphragm muscles.

You don't prove any "pre-mature" death of anyone by the drug. There is just the accusation.
We know that huge numbers of elderly people died in UK care homes. We know that midazolam depresses respiration. We know that huge amounts of midazolam was prescribed for use outside hospitals. We know where that midazolam was most likely used, and the effect it most likely had on the recipients.
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
My comment was put out generally and I'd hoped someone would have directly helped me understand what EXACTLY the "skeptics" rubric is.

And as I mentioned, I don't really think you guys seem to have one much past what I outlined above.

I'm not wanting commentary on MY list; I am wanting to understand your position better. That said, I certainly recognize it is easier to comment on, and far less incriminating to focus on my list. To understand your position better, I need to understand the underpinnings of your position; ie. I need to understand what is your rubric for figuring out what is good evidence.

My position is very simple and is what it has always been. Anti-authoritarianism, whether it comes from the right or the left.
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
Aug 19, 2018
15,701
10,601
71
Bondi
✟248,954.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
LOL! I bet you wish all those vaccine sceptics, who continually burst your pro-vaxx bubble, would just shut up and go away.

Unfortunately for all too many of them and their families, quite a few have.
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
Aug 19, 2018
15,701
10,601
71
Bondi
✟248,954.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
My position is very simple and is what it has always been. Anti-authoritarianism, whether it comes from the right or the left.

When elected governments the world over from all sides of the political divide who are doing their utmost to keep the number of their fellow citizens who are being killed to an absolute minimum can be described as authoritarian, I despair.
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
144,666
17,340
USA/Belize
✟1,738,735.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Of course I realise that it reportedly takes 2-3 weeks to achieve immune response. That's why we need a third category, so that those 36,000 post-vaccination deaths can be properly investigated, instead of just casually dismissing them as unvaccinated covid deaths or totally unrelated to the vaccination.
They aren't casually dismissed as unvaccinated Covid deaths.


Do you realise that the symptoms of covid infection can be similar to those caused by vaccine adverse effects? Covid infection and the covid vaccine can both cause blood clotting. And blood clotting can cause shortness of breath if clots are present in the lungs, which is widely reported as a symptom of covid infection.

Covid deaths would have a positive covid test. Having a positive Covid test from the vaccine is unlikely. Swab not blood test.

There is also the fact that some other very dangerous clotting-related adverse effects have been seen in young healthy people post-vaccination. It is a medical fact that those types of adverse effects require immediate medical attention, and are known to NEVER occur in healthy young people. The only possible explanation is that the covid vaccine caused it. But of course the MSM doesn't report those concerns, because it doesn't fit the 'vaccines good' narrative.

Only the special know about it? The ones who go to blogs and sites that are ..different?
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/...-youth-at-high-risk-of-covid-19-complications

COVID-19 vaccines for kids: What you need to know


Children ages 12 through 15 given the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine had side effects similar to those experienced by people age 16 and older. The most commonly reported side effects include:

  • Pain where the shot was given
  • Fatigue
  • Headache
  • Chills
  • Muscle pain
  • Fever
  • Joint pain

Similar to adults, children have side effects that typically last 1 to 3 days. More adolescents reported these side effects, except for injection site pain, after the second dose of the vaccine. However, many people have no side effects
Can COVID-19 vaccines affect the heart?

In the U.S., there has been an increase in reported cases of myocarditis and pericarditis after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, particularly in male adolescents and young adults age 16 and older. Myocarditis is the inflammation of the heart muscle, while pericarditis is the inflammation of the lining outside the heart. These reports are rare. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is investigating to see if there is any relationship to COVID-19 vaccination.


Of the cases reported, the problem happened more often after the second dose of the COVID-19 vaccine and typically within several days after COVID-19 vaccination. Most of the people who received care quickly felt better after receiving medicine and resting. Symptoms to watch for include:

  • Chest pain
  • Shortness of breath
  • Feelings of having a fast-beating, fluttering or pounding heart
If you or your child has any of these symptoms within a week of getting a COVID-19 vaccine, seek medical care.​
Furthermore, dismissing post-vaccination deaths as unvaccinated covid deaths is very to do in the UK, since the UK government changed the guidance on reporting and investigation of deaths. Covid was made a reportable disease, but the usual procedure of requiring investigation by a coroner, which would usually apply to reportable diseases and some types of deaths, was removed.

And here is the evidence that you may not really understand what is written. In the beginning, when it was new and before the test was developed, of course a coroner was needed. But in time, there was trust in the Covid tests, and a coroner is not needed, just as they are not needed for flu deaths and other contagious diseases.


You are wrong, of course.
1. The midazolam prescriptions weren't for hospitals. It even says that in the article. It says out-of-hospital prescriptions. They were prescriptions for people in care homes. If someone is getting distressed in a care home because they can't breath, they need hospital treatment, not shoving over the edge with a large dose of midazolam.
2. Ventilators aren't used in care homes. As far as I am aware, in the UK, they are used in an intensive care environment, which means hospitals.

You are mistaken in many ways of course.
Yes, vents are used in ICUs but that it has been used there heavily shows experience with the medication.
As nursing homes were locked down and patients were unable to be with each other or family, anxiety rose. I have spent the last 2 years with my mom in senior living and can absolutely verify that. The dementia issues rose. And if they do get sick, and have a DNR (do not resuscitate) on file, is midazolam so bad? My mom is hospice and has oral morphine for when there is chest pain.
It is not euthanasia, it is keeping the dying comfortable.

If you read a blog with a bias, you are not going to get a full picture of what is happening.

We know that huge amounts of midazolam was prescribed for use outside hospitals. We know where that midazolam was most likely used, and the effect it most likely had on the recipients.
Back it up. Find a source that is credible. What is the dose used? Was it oral or intra-nasal?
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
When elected governments the world over from all sides of the political divide who are doing their utmost to keep the number of their fellow citizens who are being killed to an absolute minimum can be described as authoritarian, I despair.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustSomeBloke
Upvote 0

JustSomeBloke

Unacceptable Fringe Minority
Supporter
Sep 10, 2018
1,507
1,580
My Home
✟177,126.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
They aren't casually dismissed as unvaccinated Covid deaths.




Covid deaths would have a positive covid test. Having a positive Covid test from the vaccine is unlikely. Swab not blood test.



Only the special know about it? The ones who go to blogs and sites that are ..different?
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/...-youth-at-high-risk-of-covid-19-complications

COVID-19 vaccines for kids: What you need to know


Children ages 12 through 15 given the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine had side effects similar to those experienced by people age 16 and older. The most commonly reported side effects include:

  • Pain where the shot was given
  • Fatigue
  • Headache
  • Chills
  • Muscle pain
  • Fever
  • Joint pain

Similar to adults, children have side effects that typically last 1 to 3 days. More adolescents reported these side effects, except for injection site pain, after the second dose of the vaccine. However, many people have no side effects
Can COVID-19 vaccines affect the heart?

In the U.S., there has been an increase in reported cases of myocarditis and pericarditis after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, particularly in male adolescents and young adults age 16 and older. Myocarditis is the inflammation of the heart muscle, while pericarditis is the inflammation of the lining outside the heart. These reports are rare. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is investigating to see if there is any relationship to COVID-19 vaccination.


Of the cases reported, the problem happened more often after the second dose of the COVID-19 vaccine and typically within several days after COVID-19 vaccination. Most of the people who received care quickly felt better after receiving medicine and resting. Symptoms to watch for include:

  • Chest pain
  • Shortness of breath
  • Feelings of having a fast-beating, fluttering or pounding heart
If you or your child has any of these symptoms within a week of getting a COVID-19 vaccine, seek medical care.​


And here is the evidence that you may not really understand what is written. In the beginning, when it was new and before the test was developed, of course a coroner was needed. But in time, there was trust in the Covid tests, and a coroner is not needed, just as they are not needed for flu deaths and other contagious diseases.




You are mistaken in many ways of course.
Yes, vents are used in ICUs but that it has been used there heavily shows experience with the medication.
As nursing homes were locked down and patients were unable to be with each other or family, anxiety rose. I have spent the last 2 years with my mom in senior living and can absolutely verify that. The dementia issues rose. And if they do get sick, and have a DNR (do not resuscitate) on file, is midazolam so bad? My mom is hospice and has oral morphine for when there is chest pain.
It is not euthanasia, it is keeping the dying comfortable.

If you read a blog with a bias, you are not going to get a full picture of what is happening.


Back it up. Find a source that is credible. What is the dose used? Was it oral or intra-nasal?
Funeral Directors know what's going on. Death is their core business, so not much about COVID deaths can be hidden from them. Max Igan interviewed John O'Looney, a funeral director, on the website covidtruths. John O'Looney exposed what has been going on with covid, vaccines, and midazolam overdoses. He describes the deliberately high overdoses of midazolam given to care home residents.

Of course you probably won't believe any of it, because it doesn't fit the MSM government propaganda that you've been dripfed for months. But that doesn't matter to me one bit.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
24,494
13,119
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟361,729.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
My position is very simple and is what it has always been. Anti-authoritarianism, whether it comes from the right or the left.
Ok but that still doesn't help me understand the skeptics rubric for good science. Besides, you're not a VAX skeptic you just don't agree with mandates; At least that's what i've always understood.
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
144,666
17,340
USA/Belize
✟1,738,735.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Funeral Directors know what's going on. Death is their core business, so not much about COVID deaths can be hidden from them. Max Igan interviewed John O'Looney, a funeral director, on the website covidtruths. John O'Looney exposed what has been going on with covid, vaccines, and midazolam overdoses. He describes the deliberately high overdoses of midazolam given to care home residents.

Of course you probably won't believe any of it, because it doesn't fit the MSM government propaganda that you've been dripfed for months. But that doesn't matter to me one bit.
Funeral directors do not get the medical records. Taking care of the dead body is their business, not taking care of the illness.

I looked at that site - good grief!
No wonder there was no link - because that fellow basically denies there was a Covid pandemic.

see Covid-19 denial

He says there were no covid deaths before the vaccine - blatant lie.
He warns about "covid camps" and that you have to accept a "fatal dose"(??) to get out.
He says nurses have been told by senior medical teams to give lethal doses of Midazolam on people who are not dying. Bull!
Even in the UK, euthanasia is illegal. AND even in the UK nurses can refuse an order.



He is all pure conspiracy theory - and this is the type of site I feared that you got some of your beliefs. Referring to something like that blows away any hint of credibility.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: rambot
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
24,494
13,119
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟361,729.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
.
He is all pure conspiracy theory - and this is the type of site I feared that you got some of your beliefs. Referring to something like that blows away any hint of credibility
unable to distinguish good from bad
 
Upvote 0

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
Ok but that still doesn't help me understand the skeptics rubric for good science. Besides, you're not a VAX skeptic you just don't agree with mandates; At least that's what i've always understood.

That's also simple. When the public has been lied to multiple times in the past by all of these various entities listed on the rubric you presented, then there really is no trustworthy rubric for good science. Mandating isn't a way to build back that trust. Rather, it just serves to create more distrust and division, which also makes the more skeptical populations wonder if that was the plan all along and the cycle continues.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JustSomeBloke
Upvote 0

JustSomeBloke

Unacceptable Fringe Minority
Supporter
Sep 10, 2018
1,507
1,580
My Home
✟177,126.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Funeral directors do not get the medical records. Taking care of the dead body is their business, not taking care of the illness.

I looked at that site - good grief!
No wonder there was no link - because that fellow basically denies there was a Covid pandemic.

see Covid-19 denial

He says there were no covid deaths before the vaccine - blatant lie.
He warns about "covid camps" and that you have to accept a "fatal dose"(??) to get out.
He says nurses have been told by senior medical teams to give lethal doses of Midazolam on people who are not dying. Bull!
Even in the UK, euthanasia is illegal. AND even in the UK nurses can refuse an order.



He is all pure conspiracy theory - and this is the type of site I feared that you got some of your beliefs. Referring to something like that blows away any hint of credibility.
LOL! Calm down! And please try to stay on the topic we were discussing, which I believe is Midazolam use.

Supplies of sedative used for COVID-19 patients diverted from France to avoid potential shortages
Exclusive: Accord Healthcare has told The Pharmaceutical Journal that “some French label stock” of midazolam is now being sold into UK wholesalers.

A spokesperson from Accord Healthcare, one of five manufacturers of the drug, told The Pharmaceutical Journal that it had to gain regulatory approval to sell French-labelled supplies of midazolam injection to the NHS, after having already sold two years’ worth of stock to UK wholesalers “at the request of the NHS” in March 2020.

So, in March 2020 the UK had already bought two years supply of midazolam, and just two months later, in May 2020, that large stockpile was reportedly considered insufficient for current UK needs.

And yes, you are right that euthanasia is technically illegal in the UK, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. One of the outcomes of the investigation into Harold Shipman was that greater scrutiny of deaths was required. But that has effectively been undone with the revised COVID guidance, because despite being a reportable disease, COVID deaths will not automatically be referred to and be investigated by a coroner.

Whilst Covid-19 is a notifiable disease under the Health Protection (Notification)
Regulations 2010, a death caused by Covid-19 virus is not reason of its own to notify
the death to the coroner.
Covid-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death


And funeral directors do know about medical records, because they talk to relatives of the deceased. If you had read the transcript on that covidtruths website then you would know that funeral directors get a lot of information about the nature and cause of the death. They also have a very good idea of what is normal, in terms of number and rate of deaths, and the nature and frequency of call outs. But I correctly predicted that you wouldn't believe any of this, because it doesn't fit what you've had drummed into you by the MSM for almost two years.

I can't be bothered to entertain much more of this from you. I am well read on these matters, so I know exactly where the euthanasia loopholes are that can be exploited, such as the lack of coroner involvement and proper investigations that I described above.

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
144,666
17,340
USA/Belize
✟1,738,735.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Funeral directors do not get the medical records and while they are educated as needed in that area for their job, they do not get the education in pharmacology or study pathophysiolgy or manage any illnesses at all. They need to know who to protect themselves from exposure to contaminants - which would include masks and eyewear in some cases. He is no expert in managing Covid19 and only had antidotal stories. That does not cut it.

And so supplies were diverted from France, or that its use is up? Anxiety was high in the hospitals, too. Many more were sick.

And so what if by some point in March 2020 one didn't have to notify a coroner for a Covid death? There are many times in a hospital where a coroner per se is not notified because an attending physical can supply the cause of death.
Coroners are needed when then the death is by unnatural means, or there isn't an attending physician to certify the cause of death. A person found dead in their home who hasn't seen a doctor recently needs a coroner. A person who is murdered needs a coroner. A patient who has been under the care of a doctor in the hospital for covid19 does not need a coroner. A nursing home patient who has been seen recently suffering from a known illness does not need a coroner usually.

But I correctly predicted that you wouldn't believe any of this, because it doesn't fit what you've had drummed into you by the MSM for almost two years.

And that is bull. You have no clue what my medical background is, or how well read I am of ACTUAL science and facts, or who I know working in Covid units, or my background in legal and administrative aspects of the healthcare system.

If I see credible information from someone, I will consider it. I am instead seeing either bad sources, questionable sources and misunderstanding of the healthcare system.
 
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
24,494
13,119
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟361,729.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
That's also simple. When the public has been lied to multiple times in the past by all of these various entities listed on the rubric you presented, then there really is no trustworthy rubric for good science. Mandating isn't a way to build back that trust. Rather, it just serves to create more distrust and division, which also makes the more skeptical populations wonder if that was the plan all along and the cycle continues.
.
To suggest as you do that you can never ever ever trust anything a scientist has said again betrays your unwillingness to understand how the scientific community operates.

And frankly is 100% an argument of convenience in this particular instance.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
16,346
10,240
Earth
✟137,598.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
My position is very simple and is what it has always been. Anti-authoritarianism, whether it comes from the right or the left.
So your position doesn’t have anything to do with the vaccines per se, but the way that they’ve been “encouraging” the populous to “get the vaccine”?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
16,346
10,240
Earth
✟137,598.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
John O'Looney exposed what has been going on with covid, vaccines, and midazolam overdoses. He describes the deliberately high overdoses of midazolam given to care home residents.
Gonna need a link for Mr (Dr?) O’Looney’s work.
Do funeral home directors usually do toxicology reports on clients?
 
Upvote 0