NT support for a third temple

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Hammster

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So; where is your proof that Christianity is thoroughly accepted by more people today than ever before. And I mean; proportional to population increases.

The error ridden AMill belief cannot show that Satan is bound beyond what God has always allowed him to deceive. That is: those who let him lead them astray.
No difference from when Adam and Eve were deceived.
I’m not sure why you are putting conditions on the growth of the kingdom. Christ builds His church. It’s right on time.
 
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ShineyDays2

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Your comments to other posters here, are rude and unchristian. The attitude of you being right and any opposition to AMill, etc, is made by pond scum, is arrogant and is frankly; disgusting.
You deserve to be reported for this kind of comment.
 
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eclipsenow

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There’s NO temple. It’s been trampled and is GONE.
I would agree with this as a statement about the physical building. Totally.
But of course, as we do more biblical theology and see how the temple is fulfilled in Jesus body torn down and raised again in 3 days, we also see that WE are the temple of God. WE bring God to man as we share the gospel. So Keras insisting that we'd need a "temple" to worship God" in completely undermines WHO WE ARE and WHAT THE GOSPEL DID. The irony is he's Pentecostal and meant to understand the Holy Spirit and what having the Holy Spirit means - but here I am an Anglican reminding him "Ahem - hello? Remember the Holy Spirit?"

The temple USED to be where God and mankind met. But Jesus fulfilled all that in his person, and now WE get to represent that.
 
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I would agree with this as a statement about the physical building. Totally.
But of course, as we do more biblical theology and see how the temple is fulfilled in Jesus body torn down and raised again in 3 days, we also see that WE are the temple of God. WE bring God to man as we share the gospel. So Keras insisting that we'd need a "temple" to worship God" in completely undermines WHO WE ARE and WHAT THE GOSPEL DID. The irony is he's Pentecostal and meant to understand the Holy Spirit and what having the Holy Spirit means - but here I am an Anglican reminding him "Ahem - hello? Remember the Holy Spirit?"

The temple USED to be where God and mankind met. But Jesus fulfilled all that in his person, and now WE get to represent that.

Keeping that in mind, how does the Antichrist go about setting up the abomination of desolation there?
 
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eclipsenow

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Keeping that in mind, how does the Antichrist go about setting up the abomination of desolation there?
The original AOD was Antiochus.
Then Jesus referenced this - probably speaking of his death as the event that would lay desolate the whole sacrificial system!
But the other interpretation that also fits is that he was warning them about THAT TEMPLE - that the disciples were asking about THEN AND THERE and when IT would be destroyed (NOT some imaginary 3rd temple!).
Then of course the Romans came in and destroyed it in AD70 - and sacrificed to the Eagle standard.
Given all this I think we can conclude the AOD fulfilled. I see no reason at all that the temple must be rebuilt. In fact, such an act would be blasphemous. And I'm a bit embarrassed that so many in the American church are absolutely fixated on this AOD business. It's like they read Tim LaHaye's Left Behind books as gospel truth!

This was the AOD
ZAFXDAhePfXnmcHDOzwPTisbJWiLd_1KsYRJQV0Ma730akrs8pUWKURUpJPidX9PkEPeTOjgo6VzuYkCaTotQUXngkOJKD3hpphRVGviHPp3oDONtX9I8lXBhSzA_tw8KuQxz1_wxx8SqBehfp-Frj-0mLoGohcnnNSaEA=s0-d-e1-ft
 
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keras

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Given all this I think we can conclude the AOD fulfilled.
Antiochus was in 167 BC.

Jesus proves you wrong.
He said: So when you see the abomination of desolation, of which Daniel spoke, standing in the holy place......Matthew 24:15
Both Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thess 2:4 make it clear this will happen in a Temple.
The historical record; the Bible and Josephus; have no indication that this has happened yet. Titus never desecrated the 2nd Temple, he tried to save it.
 
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eclipsenow

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Antiochus was in 167 BC.

Jesus proves you wrong.
He said: So when you see the abomination of desolation, of which Daniel spoke, standing in the holy place......Matthew 24:15
Both Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thess 2:4 make it clear this will happen in a Temple.
The historical record; the Bible and Josephus; have no indication that this has happened yet. Titus never desecrated the 2nd Temple, he tried to save it.
You see, this is where you fail basic comprehension.

The disciples exclaimed to Jesus "Look at these stones" and your 'theological blinkers' make them ask not about THOSE stones that they could see with their own eyes, but about stones 2000 years later? Really? PULL THE OTHER ONE - because that's just hilarious! Ha ha ha ha. :ebil:^_^^_^

Honestly - and Jesus even describes how the Romans would besiege the city. They were to get out of town when they heard the Romans were coming.

Daniel 9:27 is notoriously difficult - and that you (someone who despises reading theology) think you've cracked it makes me wince. You're loading it with YOUR assumptions - NOT coming to it objectively - and ripping it out of context and throwing it away into your CME packed future. (2026 hey, according to your genealogies? Yeah, right. :doh:)


As for 2 Thess 2:4, a friend of mine wrote:-

MAN OF LAWLESSNESS
John writes that “many antichrists have come”, reminding us that there has been great opposition to Christ ever since he was born (remember how Herod killed all the babies in Bethlehem trying to get to Jesus?). Throughout the whole Bible, we find characters who are ‘anti’ God’s plans—wicked men, foreign kings, false prophets and ‘the beast’ who features in Revelation 13. Even in Deuteronomy, there are warnings about the rise of prophets who lie and preach rebellion against the true God.
But is there going to be one mega-evil ruler who will deceive the world and lead millions astray and do things like brand ‘666’ on their foreheads?
Probably not. There are passages in the Bible which talk about a particular being who is Christ’s foe (e.g., “the man of lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians 2 or the dragon of Revelation 12-13 who is identified as the Devil). But this kind of symbolic language is used to describe an attitude or spirit of evil rather than a single evil person. The fact that some parts of Scripture bring ultimate evil to a head by using an individual character to identify it probably says more about how dramatic literature operates than it does about predicting history.

The worst thing about antichrists is that they have come from within the church! The apostle John wrote that they “went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”. This is what antichrists do. They get among believers and try to deceive them, persuading them to believe lies and getting people to follow them and their deceptions rather than Jesus and his truth. They teach that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 Jn 4:1-3); they say it doesn’t matter whether you sin or not (1 Jn 1:5-10); and they neglect their Christian brothers and sisters (1 Jn 4:19-21).

According to God’s word, the antichrist might have sat next to you in the church pew. This isn’t a scene from a horror movie; quite the opposite-it is an everyday event. In this final age before Jesus returns, plenty of opponents of Jesus will arise. And they may even be in church, trying to deceive us and lead us into error. But Christians can be confident and at peace, because there will be a day when all ‘antichristness’ will be done away with.

It’s a bit of a waste of time trying to work out whether the antichrist is Boris Yeltsin, the Dalai Lama, Bill Gates or the Pope. It’s just as likely to be your granny or your next door neighbour, if they are promoting lies about our Lord.

Just make sure it isn’t you …

See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. (1 John 2:24-25)
The devil you know


DANIEL 9
It's not literal but literary, and what it means to convey is hard for modern theologians to unpack. Many think it is Antiochus. Many think it could be Jesus. It depends on how the reader decides to measure - which decree from which Persian emperor letting the Jews go home, or various figures in Jewish rule go home, that the reader counts from.

People play a few games with the weeks and when to count from and to - but none of them quite work.

But quite frequently the number 7 applied to time means the fullness of time, and 70 is multiplied by 10 - the complete, overflowing fullness of God's perfect time.

In this case, it's I'm wondering if it is not so much about actual years and not numerically fixated. Rather, the years represent rough fractions of time. There are many examples of Jewish number symbolism not actually counting things but meaning things. 6 is man's number, the day of the week we were made on, the number of days we work, and short of God's perfection in the 7. Or take a third, used in Revelation. "A third were burned but the rest remained" - which does NOT mean a numerical third, but a scary big amount - but more survived that judgement than were killed by it. Like today's Covid pandemic.

Or take 3.5 years - times times and half a time. That's a limited, finite period of time. It does not matter how long specifically - because it's just saying a 'short' time - not God's fullness of time. 1000 is figurative for a 'gazillion'. There are many numerical SYMBOLS that are just NOT literal in Jewish number symbolism when referring to time. So maybe these 'weeks' are chunks of time illustrating roughly what order things will happen in God's perfect time. But what does it all mean? I don't know. It could be that it refers to Antiochus, and his trashing of the temple. Or it could be Jesus - who is cut off - and then the timing in the last verses is open ended and refers to Romans destroying the temple and then ... we're left in a long but finite period of time at the end of things. In other words, there's a 3.5 there - a finite period of time. And we're in it.

26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.
(Jesus is killed)

The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
(Romans)

The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
(Romans destroy the temple, Rome rules Judea for a while but eventually destroys the temple, and we are left in the last figurative 3.5 years.)

What Daniel's sevens mean is disputed. It's not terribly clear. But we get the message that God was in control, promising Daniel that his people would be rescued from their sin, an Anointed one would die, and there would be rough times ahead. And it roughly works either way - even if it refers to Antiochus - Jesus himself calls the end of the temple an "abomination that causes desolation." This is not a timetable for the future, but about events in our past. We should read the clearer parts of the New Testament for descriptions of our future - which are glorious - but hidden behind the secret of when Jesus will return like a thief in the night.
 
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keras

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The disciples exclaimed to Jesus "Look at these stones" and your 'theological blinkers' make them ask not about THOSE stones that they could see with their own eyes, but about stones 2000 years later? Really?
Inability to discern what happened in 70 AD and what is yet to happen, is your downfall.
The Second Temple was destroyed and for the Christian era, we Christians represent the Temple of God on earth.
But the Bible truth of there being a Third Temple in the end times, is scripturally correct. There has to be, for Satan to desecrate it by sitting in it and declaring himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4
 
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keras

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the secret of when Jesus will return like a thief in the night.
Does Revelation 19:11-14 describe an unexpected and surprise Return?
No; it does not and Matthew 24:29-30 and Revelation 15:1, make it clear that His wrath is over before He Returns, The destruction of Satans armies and the chaining of Satan, is merely a disposal operation and fire is not used for it.

Your beliefs about the forthcoming last days events are confused and do not conform to scripture.
 
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Hammster

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Antiochus was in 167 BC.

Jesus proves you wrong.
He said: So when you see the abomination of desolation, of which Daniel spoke, standing in the holy place......Matthew 24:15
Both Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thess 2:4 make it clear this will happen in a Temple.
The historical record; the Bible and Josephus; have no indication that this has happened yet. Titus never desecrated the 2nd Temple, he tried to save it.
In a temple?


“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
— Luke 21:20
 
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The original AOD was Antiochus.
Then Jesus referenced this - probably speaking of his death as the event that would lay desolate the whole sacrificial system!
But the other interpretation that also fits is that he was warning them about THAT TEMPLE - that the disciples were asking about THEN AND THERE and when IT would be destroyed (NOT some imaginary 3rd temple!).
Then of course the Romans came in and destroyed it in AD70 - and sacrificed to the Eagle standard.
Given all this I think we can conclude the AOD fulfilled. I see no reason at all that the temple must be rebuilt. In fact, such an act would be blasphemous. And I'm a bit embarrassed that so many in the American church are absolutely fixated on this AOD business. It's like they read Tim LaHaye's Left Behind books as gospel truth!

This was the AOD
ZAFXDAhePfXnmcHDOzwPTisbJWiLd_1KsYRJQV0Ma730akrs8pUWKURUpJPidX9PkEPeTOjgo6VzuYkCaTotQUXngkOJKD3hpphRVGviHPp3oDONtX9I8lXBhSzA_tw8KuQxz1_wxx8SqBehfp-Frj-0mLoGohcnnNSaEA=s0-d-e1-ft

I see what you mean about how rebuilding the temple would be blasphemous, but one thing to keep in mind is that this temple would supposedly be built in Jerusalem, maybe even where the original was. This is aside the fact that there's currently a mosque there. And remember that the Jews never accepted Christ as their Messiah, so they wouldn't see a temple as blasphemous. Look at this: https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/article/update-building-third-temple
 
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eclipsenow

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Inability to discern what happened in 70 AD and what is yet to happen, is your downfall.
My 'downfall' - that's a bit melodramatic isn't it?
You have agreed that as long as I trust in the Lord - I will be in your precious new Israel / whatever you want to call it. My 'downfall' - that I don't agree with your CME end-times table that barely any other futurists recognise as valid? Boy that's melodrama. Like your end-times-table

The Second Temple was destroyed and for the Christian era, we Christians represent the Temple of God on earth.
Correct.

But the Bible truth of there being a Third Temple in the end times, is scripturally correct. There has to be, for Satan to desecrate it by sitting in it and declaring himself to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

So a third temple and all your other 'timetable' stuff rests on this verse? That's a lot to hang on one verse that barely mentions it! Also, as we are God's temple now how do we know this isn't personifying sin's desire to pervert the church like Jimmy Jones or David Koresh?

Again, as my friend Greg wrote:

John writes that “many antichrists have come”, reminding us that there has been great opposition to Christ ever since he was born (remember how Herod killed all the babies in Bethlehem trying to get to Jesus?). Throughout the whole Bible, we find characters who are ‘anti’ God’s plans—wicked men, foreign kings, false prophets and ‘the beast’ who features in Revelation 13. Even in Deuteronomy, there are warnings about the rise of prophets who lie and preach rebellion against the true God.
But is there going to be one mega-evil ruler who will deceive the world and lead millions astray and do things like brand ‘666’ on their foreheads?
Probably not. There are passages in the Bible which talk about a particular being who is Christ’s foe (e.g., “the man of lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians 2 or the dragon of Revelation 12-13 who is identified as the Devil). But this kind of symbolic language is used to describe an attitude or spirit of evil rather than a single evil person. The fact that some parts of Scripture bring ultimate evil to a head by using an individual character to identify it probably says more about how dramatic literature operates than it does about predicting history.

The worst thing about antichrists is that they have come from within the church! The apostle John wrote that they “went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”. This is what antichrists do. They get among believers and try to deceive them, persuading them to believe lies and getting people to follow them and their deceptions rather than Jesus and his truth. They teach that Christ did not come in the flesh (1 Jn 4:1-3); they say it doesn’t matter whether you sin or not (1 Jn 1:5-10); and they neglect their Christian brothers and sisters (1 Jn 4:19-21).​
 
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keras

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In a temple?
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
This did happen in 70 AD. But in no way did it fulfil Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thess 2:4.
BTW, I just noted OBSTREPEROUSNESS in your avatar. No need for me to comment.
So a third temple and all your other 'timetable' stuff rests on this verse?
No. I just keep my posts as short as possible. There is plenty of other verses which prove there will be a new Temple. I have posted them - you have ignored them.
But is there going to be one mega-evil ruler who will deceive the world and lead millions astray and do things like brand ‘666’ on their foreheads?
Probably not.
Revelation 13 is quite clear in describing a man who will become Satans tool to rule the world for the final 3 1/2 years of this age. Daniel 7:24-26 also describes this one man.
 
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Hammster

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This did happen in 70 AD. But in no way did it fulfil Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thess 2:4.
BTW, I just noted OBSTREPEROUSNESS in your avatar. No need for me to comment.
Do you understand that it’s referencing the same event that Matt 24 is referencing? So it’s not some future even, but one that has already happened.
 
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eclipsenow

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This did happen in 70 AD. But in no way did it fulfil Daniel 9:27 and 2 Thess 2:4.
BTW, I just noted OBSTREPEROUSNESS in your avatar. No need for me to comment.

No. I just keep my posts as short as possible. There is plenty of other verses which prove there will be a new Temple. I have posted them - you have ignored them.

Revelation 13 is quite clear in describing a man who will become Satans tool to rule the world for the final 3 1/2 years of this age. Daniel 7:24-26 also describes this one man.
Or Rev 13 is quite clearly usurping the Shema for financial gain - worshipping money as an idol instead of God.

Deuteronomy 6:4-8 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads."
Or do we literally get a mark on our foreheads from Rev 14?
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

This Millennial obsession with the mark almost seems like a silicon chip embedded in the skin is stronger than the cross of Christ to save. Which is why the Bible Project's reading of the Mark is so much more consistent with the gospel itself...

 
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I see what you mean about how rebuilding the temple would be blasphemous, but one thing to keep in mind is that this temple would supposedly be built in Jerusalem, maybe even where the original was. This is aside the fact that there's currently a mosque there. And remember that the Jews never accepted Christ as their Messiah, so they wouldn't see a temple as blasphemous. Look at this: https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/article/update-building-third-temple
It doesn't matter what they would think of such a temple, it matters what God would think. And, trust me, God would not be pleased.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

We are the temple of God.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:“I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.
 
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