Errors of Calvinism in Man-Centered Temporal Limits on God

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
God does not tempt men to sin and God did not create sin or make men sin. God cannot lie or change or deny Himself. So if men deny Him they do it , not God making them do it, which shows a free will within the bounds of their bondage.
Those are strong sayings. I found you some more:

Hebrews 2:18
For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Matthew 18:6-9
But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

1 Corinthians 10:13

No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Mark 14:38
Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Luke 22:40
And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.”

Matthew 4:1-11
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple ...

James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God was aware Adam would sin before He was created.
Redemption was a planned event.
Yes we agree God was aware of what man could go snd would go .But, being aware of Adam’s sin is much different than making him sin and being in control of sin
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes eac
Those are strong sayings. I found you some more:

Hebrews 2:18
For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Matthew 18:6-9
But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

1 Corinthians 10:13

No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Mark 14:38
Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Luke 22:40
And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.”

Matthew 4:1-11
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple ...

James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Yes and each verse exposes the error of Calvinism
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,499
Milwaukee
✟410,918.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yes we agree God was aware of what man could go snd would go .But, being aware of Adam’s sin is much different than making him sin and being in control of sin
God controls the location of every electron in the Cosmos as well.
electron1.png
 
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,401
1,612
43
San jacinto
✟125,905.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are certain things that God CANNOT do according to Holy scripture...are you aware of that?

He CANNOT do certain things, they are impossible for God
Will not and cannot are two different things. Cannot implies some external restriction, as if should God desire to do it He would find Himself incapable. So it is not proper to say God cannot do anything, as there are no external restrictions. Though because God has a fixed nature, there are things we can reliably say are not possible because God will not do them. Nothing external to God restricts what God is capable of.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Will not and cannot are two different things. Cannot implies some external restriction, as if should God desire to do it He would find Himself incapable. So it is not proper to say God cannot do anything, as there are no external restrictions. Though because God has a fixed nature, there are things we can reliably say are not possible because God will not do them. Nothing external to God restricts what God is capable of.
No I refer to scripture not human reasoning as we see there are things God CANNOT do

Titus 1: 2. In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;”

I stress the words cannot lie.

2 Timothy 2: 13. If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”


Cannot again

Etc etc
 
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,401
1,612
43
San jacinto
✟125,905.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No I refer to scripture not human reasoning as we see there are things God CANNOT do

Titus 1: 2. In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;”

I stress the words cannot lie.

2 Timothy 2: 13. If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”


Cannot again

Etc etc
Titus is a case of poor translation, since the Greek simply uses the prefix a- with the word for lies so it should be never lies, doesn't lie, or something along those lines rather than "cannot." In 2 Tim. it is simply "not" and so again the English "cannot" adds a dimension that isn't necessary.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Titus is a case of poor translation, since the Greek simply uses the prefix a- with the word for lies so it should be never lies, doesn't lie, or something along those lines rather than "cannot." In 2 Tim. it is simply "not" and so again the English "cannot" adds a dimension that isn't necessary.

no I disagree the KJV is the only translation for English and the word cannot in Greek is;

“from 1 (as a negative particle) and 5579; veracious:--that cannot lie.”

But here’s another verse to show the sane thing and the impossibility of Gid lying

Hebrews 6: 18. That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:”

and here’s another verse to show where lies come from. They do not come from God.

John 8: 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Titus is a case of poor translation, since the Greek simply uses the prefix a- with the word for lies so it should be never lies, doesn't lie, or something along those lines rather than "cannot." In 2 Tim. it is simply "not" and so again the English "cannot" adds a dimension that isn't necessary.
And 2 Timothy is also correct and says

2 Timothy 2: 13. If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”

and cannot here is not the sane word as in Titus

so as we see from the actual Bible (KJV, the translation issue is a 45 hour talk for another time maybe) God cannot lie and cannot deny himself. I could show many verses to prove these truths from scripture but I like the words “cannot” showing the impossibility of God doing such things. .
Also we read that God does no iniquity

Habakkuk 1: 13. Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?”
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God has always had a desire for men but they are not always willing

Deuteronomy 5: 29. O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!”
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,945
6,054
North Carolina
✟273,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I was responding to the statement that said

"'Calvinism teaches that God is in charge of everything as the bible tells us"

I was pointing out that according to scripture, God cannot do everything and is not forcing mans choice or will and that God cannot lie or change or deny Himself according to scripture. I was not referring to the other statements you made like God cannot make a rock so big that he cannot lift it etc.
But in fact God did make a rock so big that he cannot lift it so to speak, He created man and man and man with a hardened heart God cannot force to believe or lift them into heaven, they must repent and believe in the Light they are given and that true Light lighteth every man that cometh into the world (John 1 : 9 KJV).
The reason men are condemned is when they hate the light John 3 KJV not because they had no choice or were created to be lost from the beginning.
All mankind is born condemned by the sin of Adam (Romans 5:18), by nature (birth) objects of wrath (Ephesians 2:3), from which wrath they are saved by Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9).
Men harden their hearts and God can simply withdraw from them and they become harder. God can be said to harden mens hearts when they resist Him and harden to Him.
Mankind is born with a hardened heart and as God's enemy (Romans 5:10), condemned by the sin of Adam (Romans 5:18).
Some act like God does everything and is in charge of everything as if that means God is the creator of sin and that God makes man sin. Some even God's far as absurdly saying that God moves the killer to kill and the robber to rob and they call it God's secret will.
God has done that. . .he told Moses before Moses ever left Midian to return to Egypt that he would harden Pharaoh's heart so that he would not listen to Moses (Exodus 4:21). Pharaoh knew nothing of this plan of God to keep him from obeying.

However, the NT fact of the matter not stated in the Pharaoh account is that all men's hearts are hardened until softened by God's grace, that all God had to do to "harden" Pharaoh's heart was to withhold his softening grace, which he did, so in effect, he "hardened" Pharaoh's heart.
So i had to address that wrong idea first. Some also say that God made Adam sin.
The idea is not as wrong as it may seem.

He didn't make Adam sin, he tested Adam, and Adam failed the test.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,945
6,054
North Carolina
✟273,781.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
God has always had a desire for men but they are not always willing
No man is willing until God's grace makes him so.
Deuteronomy 5: 29. O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jesus is YHWH
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No man is willing until God's grace makes him so.
I’ll try to get to all the comments when I get a chance busy week
And God gives grace for grace to all abs the true Light lighteth every man that comedy into the world John 1:9
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,206.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
All mankind is born condemned by the sin of Adam (Romans 5:18), by nature (birth) objects of wrath (Ephesians 2:3), from which wrath they are saved by Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9).
Mankind is born with a hardened heart and as God's enemy (Romans 5:10), condemned by the sin of Adam (Romans 5:18).

God has done that. . .he told Moses before Moses ever left Midian to return to Egypt that he would harden Pharaoh's heart so that he would not listen to Moses (Exodus 4:21). Pharaoh knew nothing of this plan of God to keep him from obeying.

However, the NT fact of the matter not stated in the Pharaoh account is that all men's hearts are hardened until softened by God's grace, that all God had to do to "harden" Pharaoh's heart was to withhold his softening grace, which he did, so in effect, he "hardened" Pharaoh's heart.

The idea is not as wrong as it may seem.

He didn't make Adam sin, he tested Adam, and Adam failed the test.
I’ll try, Lord willing, to get to these comments soon … busy
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums