Are We Living In The End Times?

eclipsenow said:

Yes - that would be Timtables Chapter 20 Verse 8000 - an obscure book - but one that apparently TimToFly discovered.


No, but there were various other heresies they were responding to at the time. After the Renaissance when the science of textual analysis and art of literary analysis grew, we learned that 1000 is actually symbolic language, like saying "A gazillion". EG: Psalm 50: "for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills."

I don't know why this is controversial and so hard to understand?

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Ask Amil why they make simple words so complicated. 1000 years is simply 1000 years. Day of the Lord, Day with the Lord, Day of Adonai, and Day of God are the symbolic form of the simple 1000 years.

eclipsenow said:

No, but there were various other heresies they were responding to at the time. After the Renaissance when the science of textual analysis and art of literary analysis grew, we learned that 1000 is actually symbolic language, like saying "A gazillion". EG: Psalm 50: "for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills."

I don't know why this is controversial and so hard to understand?

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When you type this stuff, are you serious about the Second Coming being at the end of 6000 years assigned to Adam as punishment? As by one man, Adam, sin entered the world. Only one man, Jesus Christ, can remove sin from the world. God told Moses only 6 days, 6000 years.

Most Amil get the fact the light of the Gospel has dispelled the darkness of sin, but until the Second Coming sin is still in the world.

From the fall to Abraham the Nations were in charge of controlling sin - 2000 years.

From Abraham to Christ the Hebrews held that responsibility - 2000 years.

From Christ to Christ, the body of Christ spread the Gospel - 2,000 years.

John mirrors the judgment in the book of Revelation pertaining to these stewards per the parable of Jesus and the final harvest.

The Seals for the body of Christ.

The Trumpets for the Hebrews.

The Thunders for the Nations.

All will be brought to accounting in the final harvest and this time of great judgment known as the tribulation.

The vials are reserved for those diehards who endure to the end, totally desolate and worshipping Satan. Unless the winepress is enacted, because there were no more souls to harvest.

Why is it hard to see that Revelation is John's version of the parable of the Stewards of the vineyard? John takes the parable past the point where the Hebrews kill the Son, past the days of the body of Christ, all the way to the very end of Adam's 6000 years. Then he gives a brief description of the Day of the Lord after the final harvest. John gives us the worse case scenario in contrast with a totally different reality after this current reality is completed.

keras said:

Jesus is our Judge.
He will ask you why you promoted the idea that the 1000 years as Written in Rev 20, is and was; not 1000 years.

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No, He will not. You are trying to be my Judge by acting as if you know what Jesus will say to me on judgment day. But, you are the judge of no one.

Douggg said:

And the other thing is that Amil claims Satan is on a leash so that the gentile nations could receive the gospel. Yet there are almost 2 billion muslims in the world, a religion begun by Satan.

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You really just don't get it. Why are you focusing on how many are not saved and not even thinking about how many have been saved during the past almost 2,000 years?

Tell me, how many people from the Gentile nations do you think were saved in Old Testament times? How about during New Testament times? Is there not a huge difference? There clearly has been. So, what is the reason for that?

eclipsenow said:

Sorry - which school of grammar or biblical scholarship did you get that rule from? Repeated use of a symbolic phrase suddenly makes it literal?

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That is possibly the most ridiculous of his many ridiculous arguments. The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation, so should we be on the lookout for a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns?

Spiritual Jew said:

Tell me, how many people from the Gentile nations do you think were saved in Old Testament times?

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There is only one way to be saved.

No one was saved prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. The old testament saints were considered righteous - but none were saved until Jesus went to the place of the dead and preached the gospel of salvation.

Spiritual Jew said:

That is possibly the most ridiculous of his many ridiculous arguments. The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation, so should we be on the lookout for a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns?

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What we should be on the lookout for is activity in the EU which the government will have ten leaders and one leader over them - the little horn person.

Spiritual Jew said:

That is possibly the most ridiculous of his many ridiculous arguments. The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation, so should we be on the lookout for a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns?

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There are more than one beast mentioned in the book of Revelation. There is only the one Millennial reign listed as 1000 years. The same set of 1000 years as those resurrected people live in physical bodies for 1000 years. The same set that Satan is bound for 1000 years. Not 3 different 1000 year periods. The same 1000 years where all 3 phenomenon occur at the same time. Not all of the beast in Revelation were described the same. Throwing around the word beast is not even comparable to the usage of 1000 years. And you claim pre-mill come up with silly points?

Revelation 20 is a very literal chapter. Is John using the "verily verily" format to get his point across? If you claim this chapter is highly symbolic, then using the term 1000 years the way John did, could very well be symbolic of the "verily verily" literal use found in the Gospels. Would you not use the Scriptures found in the Gospels to compare Scripture to Scripture if it was your point? To correct those who do, is just being argumentative.

For those who use the excuse Revelation 20 is too symbolic, if John did use literal terms, like you are demanding, would John have to do it to your specifications, or is John doing it by the Holy Spirit's guidance? The chapter is not highly symbolic, and all the symbolism is explained. God does not need the literal terms used changed into private symbols, even if there are verses in God's Word available to do so. There are Scriptures to point out the literal points as well.

John was not quoting Peter nor the Psalms in Revelation 20. Peter may have been referencing the Psalms in 2 Peter 3, but jumping to conclusions has become circular reasoning, way past the point of making sense. But then it does not have to make sense, if private interpretation can "save the day". We are not relying on private interpretation in Revelation 20. No need, as John is very very clear.

eclipsenow said:

- and you've still got an immense problem. Despite your assertions you have not proved how we are meant to read the '1000 years' in Revelation 20.

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But I have and you just ignore the absolute provable fact of there having been 2 exact 2000 year time periods, until Jesus first Advent and now almost the third, when He will Return as prophesied.
Making an exact total of 6000 years and then comes the final Sabbath of the 1000 year Millennium. All God's careful timing.
As is reiterated 6 times in Rev 20. Usually when something is repeated in the Bible, we should take special note of it. We are told Jesus will reign on earth for a thousand years. I believe that; what is the reason you don't?

These Bible truths destroy the false teaching of AMill.

Spiritual Jew said:

That is possibly the most ridiculous of his many ridiculous arguments. The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation, so should we be on the lookout for a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns?

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Seems like he'd be hard to miss.

Douggg said:

That is the weakest explanation of Satan being in chains in the bottomless pit. What about all the other evil Satan does in the world?

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What - like simultaneously inspiring governments to persecute Christians in Iran while the gospel also goes forth? This is the main difference between Amil and all other millennial beliefs.
Amil read Revelation as descriptive, not prescriptive.
Revelation describes these Last Days (2000 years and counting Acts 2 and Hebrews 1) from different angles. It's picture language that describes the 'gazillion years' between Jesus Resurrection and his Return. Chapter 20 happens to be looking at one very particular way in which Satan is bound - the declaring of our gospel decreases the number of people in his 'kingdom'.

During the millennium, Satan will be in chains, in the bottomless pit - isolated from the world, not able to deceive the nations.

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That's the imagery - but it's not literal. It's just an image describing our actions in declaring the gospel.

Otherwise, what did Jesus mean?

Also, when in Amil view is Satan exposed to the kings and people of the earth, that they may be able to behold him, Ezekiel 28:16-19?

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If Revelation is not some sort of literal timetable, why is Ezekiel? This will take you through the first half of Ezekiel and might address your problems.

eclipsenow said:

That's the imagery - but it's not literal. It's just an image describing our actions in declaring the gospel.

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The main point is that when Satan is bound in chains and in the bottomless pit he is isolated from the world. Not able to deceive the nations.

eclipsenow said:

If Revelation is not some sort of literal timetable, why is Ezekiel? This will take you through the first half of Ezekiel and might address your problems.

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What I'm asking you what is Amil's view on how Satan will be exposed that the kings and people of the earth will be able to behold him.

Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

I made an illustration of when and how that will happen.

Timtofly said:

Ask Amil why they make simple words so complicated. 1000 years is simply 1000 years. Day of the Lord, Day with the Lord, Day of Adonai, and Day of God are the symbolic form of the simple 1000 years.

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Below is just a sample of all the times 1000 should be read as "a gazillion" or "the fullest number of". It's like today when people say "A billion here, a billion there and pretty soon you're talking about real money." It's an uncontested fact that the Hebrews often used a thousand in the sense of "a gazillion times" or "a gazillion men" or "a gazillion years" or even "forever".
Let's take a look.

Psalm 50: "I bring no charges against you concerning your sacrifices or concerning your burnt offerings, which are ever before me. I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens,
for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."
(As there are over a million mountains on earth - let alone all the foothills - it would seem very strange for this verse to literally be saying God's abundant ownership of the whole world LIMITS him to just ONE THOUSANDTH of the hills on earth! That would be a VERY strange reading of the passage!)

Deuteronomy 1:11 - "11 May the Lord, the God of your ancestors, increase you a thousand times and bless you as he has promised!"
(The promise to Abraham was that his descendants would be too numerous to count - are we going to completely nerf that promise and literally say they'd only increase a thousandfold from their exact numbers that day? Of course not!)
Deuteronomy 7:9 - "Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments."
(This one basically means forever - a gazillion)

Psalm 105:8 - "He remembers his covenant FOREVER, the promise he made, for a THOUSAND generations"
(What is it? Forever, or only a mere 1000 generations? No - it's Hebrew literary repetition, where forever and 1000 are interchangeable. Conclusion? Not literal.)

Psalm 91:7 - "A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you." (I mean, is it 1000 or 10,000? How can the author be out by a factor of 10? He's not out - because it's not literal - it's saying "a gazillion will fall, NO, 10 gazillion!" It's literary, not literal.)
Isaiah 60:22 - "The least of you will become a thousand, the smallest a mighty nation."
(You mean there are literal limits on God's people? I thought God promised Abraham that there would be too many, like the sand in the desert or the stars in the sky.)

Psalms 84:10 - "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked."
(This one is saying one day serving God with the righteous is better than a gazillion elsewhere - NOT 2.73 years exactly.)
Judges 15:16 - "Then Samson said, “With a donkey’s jawbone I have made donkeys of them. With a donkey’s jawbone I have killed a thousand men.”

Job 9:3 - "Though they wished to dispute with him, they could not answer him one time out of a thousand."
(Again, it's not that they disputed with him each day and only 1 person managed to answer him every 2.73 years. It's saying "not one in a gazillion" or basically no one ever answered him.)

1000 Year Reign of Christ? So where does the phrase “1000 Year Reign of Christ” appear in scripture? The answer is it does not appear in scripture. Neither will you find the word “millennium”? Does this surprise you? Revelation 20:3-8 is the only passage in scripture that anyone can point to as referring to a “1000 year reign.” What endless variations of concocted fables have resulted! Clearly it does not contain the detail that they attribute to it.

First, it should be pointed out that scripture does not speak of “the thousand year reign of Christ.” Revelation 20:4 says, "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded ... came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. " Notice that it’s not Christ that reigns 1000 years! It’s those who were killed for God’s sake that reign with Christ 1000 years. There are nineteen (19) Bible verses that declare that Christ’s reign is forever. Revelation 11:15 is one of the nineteen: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever." So why would Revelation 20 contradict this by saying it was only 1000 years?
It's not Christ ruling on earth for a gazillion years, but the matyrs reigning in heaven with Christ. Consider the phrase, “Jane Doe served with the governor for one year.” Does this mean the governor served for only one year? No - the governor could serve for many years. The point is not how long the governor served but how long Jane served with the governor. The governor isn’t the subject; it is speaking about how long Jane serves with him. Likewise, Revelation 20:4 is not about how long Jesus will reign, but how long others will reign with Jesus. There’s a big difference.
So what do the scriptures reveal about the number 1000? It is a number that typically signifies the idea of “immensity,” “fullness of quantity” or “multitude.” The number can represent a large number or extended period of time. This general interpretation applies both to the Old Testament as well as the New Testament.

Timtofly said:

When you type this stuff, are you serious about the Second Coming being at the end of 6000 years assigned to Adam as punishment? As by one man, Adam, sin entered the world. Only one man, Jesus Christ, can remove sin from the world. God told Moses only 6 days, 6000 years.

Most Amil get the fact the light of the Gospel has dispelled the darkness of sin, but until the Second Coming sin is still in the world.

From the fall to Abraham the Nations were in charge of controlling sin - 2000 years.

From Abraham to Christ the Hebrews held that responsibility - 2000 years.

From Christ to Christ, the body of Christ spread the Gospel - 2,000 years.

John mirrors the judgment in the book of Revelation pertaining to these stewards per the parable of Jesus and the final harvest.

The Seals for the body of Christ.

The Trumpets for the Hebrews.

The Thunders for the Nations.

All will be brought to accounting in the final harvest and this time of great judgment known as the tribulation.

The vials are reserved for those diehards who endure to the end, totally desolate and worshipping Satan. Unless the winepress is enacted, because there were no more souls to harvest.

Why is it hard to see that Revelation is John's version of the parable of the Stewards of the vineyard? John takes the parable past the point where the Hebrews kill the Son, past the days of the body of Christ, all the way to the very end of Adam's 6000 years. Then he gives a brief description of the Day of the Lord after the final harvest. John gives us the worse case scenario in contrast with a totally different reality after this current reality is completed.

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Oh no - not genealogies again. It depends how you count them out to strangle them into a literal 2000 years. "The Hebrew word for "son" can also mean descendant; for example even remote descendants of King David are in many instances identified as "So-and-so son of David" in the original Hebrew."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gershom

Revelation is a symbolic sermon, not a timeline. It's about how to stay faithful in the time between Jesus Ascension and his Return on Judgement Day. John uses powerful biblical symbols to describe (not prescribe) what this time will be like. And it could be a long time before Jesus Returns. The number 1000 is commonly used to mean "a gazillion" - like when Psalm 50 says God owns all the sheep on "a thousand hills." What about the other million hills - does God not own all those two? So Revelation describes a long time, and traces 4 themes. Let's check out the structure. They're to be read along-side each other - not to be read sequentially like some sort of future timeline.

HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS between Jesus Ascension and his Return on Judgement Day:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are *concurrent*, not consecutive.

What does a particular chapter or image mean? Like how to Amillennials read the number of the beast, etc? The Bible Project is a very good summary. These have had over 4 million views.
Revelation 1 to 11

Revelation 12 to 22.

Or it you want to go deeper, try (retired) Bishop Paul Barnett's book. He is not only a theologian, but has a doctorate in Ancient History and taught ancient history for many years, as well as leading tours of the bible lands.
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Now-Then-Revelation-Commentaries/dp/1875861416

Bottom line - it describes natural disasters, tyrants persecuting the church as 'beast-states', the temptations of trusting in materialism and luxury and even state security, and all manner of other trials and tribulations and temptations of the last 2000 years and counting.

eclipsenow said:

First, it should be pointed out that scripture does not speak of “the thousand year reign of Christ.”

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But Revelation 20:6b does: ...and they shall reign with Him for the thousand years. REBible.
The KJV and others do say; 'a' thousand years. All of the translations make it quite clear that an exact period of one thousand years is meant.

eclipsenow said:

Revelation is a symbolic sermon, not a timeline.

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The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, is to show His servants what must soon take place.
The 'soon' is obviously in God's timing, as what is described from Revelation 6:12 onward has not yet happened.

Revelation does give us the correct sequence of events; leading up to the glorious Return of King Jesus and His subsequent reign over the world for the next 1000 years. Psalms 93:1-5, Isaiah 33:20-24, +

eclipsenow said:

Oh no - not genealogies again. It depends how you count them out to strangle them into a literal 2000 years.

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Sheer avoidance and the rejection of Biblical truths.
I have posted here, several times the simple list of the time periods of the Patriarchs and the Jewish Kings, then the time between the Babylonian conquest and Jesus' Advent.
Your and all the AMill believers rejection of the fact of the exact 2000 year periods; Adam to Abraham, then Abraham to Jesus, now nearly another 2000 years between Jesus and His Return, is your serious mistake.
Then to make such a lengthy and convoluted, with cartoon videos, of how we are in the Millennium now, is a direct abrogation of the Scriptures.

keras said:

But Revelation 20:6b does: ...and they shall reign with Him for the thousand years. REBible.
The KJV and others do say; 'a' thousand years. All of the translations make it quite clear that an exact period of one thousand years is meant.

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Quibble Quibble Quibble - straining at gnats and missing the big picture.

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, is to show His servants what must soon take place.

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Exactly - soon! That's my point. It's about the Romans persecuting the 7 churches in John's generation - and describing what to do in every instance of that afterwards.

The 'soon' is obviously in God's timing, as what is described from Revelation 6:12 onward has not yet happened.

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Yeah - nah.

Revelation does give us the correct sequence of events; leading up to the glorious Return of King Jesus and His subsequent reign over the world for the next 1000 years. Psalms 93:1-5, Isaiah 33:20-24, +

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No it doesn't.

It laps back and forward describing general themes of the Last Days 2000 years and counting (See Acts 2, Hebrews 1).

Sheer avoidance and the rejection of Biblical truths.

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Yep - that's what you're doing!

Below are all the verses you avoided and rejected. BTW - you predicted 2012 and got that wrong.
You're predicting a CME an anti-Christ this decade as 'certain' and 'unavoidable' - but what's your backup timetable for when 2026 doesn't happen as predicted? And will you market your new timetable as 'certain' and 'unavoidable' also?

Below is just a sample of all the times 1000 should be read as "a gazillion" or "the fullest number of". It's like today when people say "A billion here, a billion there and pretty soon you're talking about real money." It's an uncontested fact that the Hebrews often used a thousand in the sense of "a gazillion times" or "a gazillion men" or "a gazillion years" or even "forever".
Let's take a look.

Psalm 50: "I bring no charges against you concerning your sacrifices or concerning your burnt offerings, which are ever before me. I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens,
for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."
(As there are over a million mountains on earth - let alone all the foothills - it would seem very strange for this verse to literally be saying God's abundant ownership of the whole world LIMITS him to just ONE THOUSANDTH of the hills on earth! That would be a VERY strange reading of the passage!)

Deuteronomy 1:11 - "11 May the Lord, the God of your ancestors, increase you a thousand times and bless you as he has promised!"
(The promise to Abraham was that his descendants would be too numerous to count - are we going to completely nerf that promise and literally say they'd only increase a thousandfold from their exact numbers that day? Of course not!)
Deuteronomy 7:9 - "Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments."
(This one basically means forever - a gazillion)

Psalm 105:8 - "He remembers his covenant FOREVER, the promise he made, for a THOUSAND generations"
(What is it? Forever, or only a mere 1000 generations? No - it's Hebrew literary repetition, where forever and 1000 are interchangeable. Conclusion? Not literal.)

Psalm 91:7 - "A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you." (I mean, is it 1000 or 10,000? How can the author be out by a factor of 10? He's not out - because it's not literal - it's saying "a gazillion will fall, NO, 10 gazillion!" It's literary, not literal.)
Isaiah 60:22 - "The least of you will become a thousand, the smallest a mighty nation."
(You mean there are literal limits on God's people? I thought God promised Abraham that there would be too many, like the sand in the desert or the stars in the sky.)

Psalms 84:10 - "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked."
(This one is saying one day serving God with the righteous is better than a gazillion elsewhere - NOT 2.73 years exactly.)
Judges 15:16 - "Then Samson said, “With a donkey’s jawbone I have made donkeys of them. With a donkey’s jawbone I have killed a thousand men.”

Job 9:3 - "Though they wished to dispute with him, they could not answer him one time out of a thousand."
(Again, it's not that they disputed with him each day and only 1 person managed to answer him every 2.73 years. It's saying "not one in a gazillion" or basically no one ever answered him.)

1000 Year Reign of Christ? So where does the phrase “1000 Year Reign of Christ” appear in scripture? The answer is it does not appear in scripture. Neither will you find the word “millennium”? Does this surprise you? Revelation 20:3-8 is the only passage in scripture that anyone can point to as referring to a “1000 year reign.” What endless variations of concocted fables have resulted! Clearly it does not contain the detail that they attribute to it.

First, it should be pointed out that scripture does not speak of “the thousand year reign of Christ.” Revelation 20:4 says, "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded ... came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. " Notice that it’s not Christ that reigns 1000 years! It’s those who were killed for God’s sake that reign with Christ 1000 years. There are nineteen (19) Bible verses that declare that Christ’s reign is forever. Revelation 11:15 is one of the nineteen: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever." So why would Revelation 20 contradict this by saying it was only 1000 years?
It's not Christ ruling on earth for a gazillion years, but the matyrs reigning in heaven with Christ. Consider the phrase, “Jane Doe served with the governor for one year.” Does this mean the governor served for only one year? No - the governor could serve for many years. The point is not how long the governor served but how long Jane served with the governor. The governor isn’t the subject; it is speaking about how long Jane serves with him. Likewise, Revelation 20:4 is not about how long Jesus will reign, but how long others will reign with Jesus. There’s a big difference.
So what do the scriptures reveal about the number 1000? It is a number that typically signifies the idea of “immensity,” “fullness of quantity” or “multitude.” The number can represent a large number or extended period of time. This general interpretation applies both to the Old Testament as well as the New Testament.

eclipsenow said:

Quibble Quibble Quibble - straining at gnats and missing the big picture.

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The BIG picture is that Jesus will Return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and will reign on earth for the next thousand years.

eclipsenow said:

Exactly - soon! That's my point. It's about the Romans persecuting the 7 churches in John's generation - and describing what to do in every instance of that afterwards.

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If anyone else here or anywhere, fully believes that is the sole purpose of Revelation, that would surprise me.

The rest of your overly lengthy post is just more avoidance and rejection of Bible truths.

keras said:

The BIG picture is that Jesus will Return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and will reign on earth for the next thousand years.

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Which of the many symbolic uses of a thousand are you quoting here? I think Psalm 105:8 would work. "He remembers his covenant FOREVER, the promise he made, for a THOUSAND generations"
(What is it? Forever, or only a mere 1000 generations? No - it's Hebrew literary repetition, where forever and 1000 are interchangeable. Conclusion? Not literal.)

If anyone else here or anywhere, fully believes that is the sole purpose of Revelation, that would surprise me.

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But isn't that how all the Epistles work? To address things for that specific church, in that specific generation, that we modern Christians then must interpret into our context and generation? Or do you think we should just ignore Romans, Galatians, Corinthians, etc?

The rest of your overly lengthy post is just more avoidance and rejection of Bible truths.

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Really? How so? All I did was show how the MAJORITY of uses of a thousand for both quantity and time are symbolic of perfect fullness of, or over-abundance of. Or did you miss that? Are you the one actually ignoring how a "thousand" really works in the bible?