Now they're taking down statues of Thomas Jefferson

RDKirk

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Roosevelt's views on a number of matters such as racial equality and even eugenics are tough to read (you can read a few of them here: How Teddy Roosevelt's Belief in a Racial Hierarchy Shaped His Policies). Doing my best not to invoke Godwins Law, let's just say that if I translated them into German, you'd almost certainly pick the wrong author of the comments.

And based just on those comments, no reasonable person would want a statue of such a man erected anywhere.

The question is: Does the good he did excuse the views he held? Or do his views override the good? It's a tough call.

The views of a lot of past Americans on "racial equality" can be tough to read because bigotry is illogical.

For instance, I grew up giving Henry Ford credit for the his fair treatment of blacks during the thirties and forties. He offered blacks good jobs at equal pay in GM plants at a time few employers would. He set up black GM dealerships across the country. In my neighborhood, Henry Ford was a good guy. I was an adult before I learned of his anti-Semitism.

TR, as well, was complicated. While he believed that the white race was, as a group, a superior race, he accepted that individuals of other races could lift themselves up to deserve equality with whites.

Roosevelt “admired individual achievement above all things,” wrote biographer Edmund Morris—which is why he became the first president to invite an African American to dine at the White House when he broke bread with Tuskegee Institution founder Booker T. Washington just weeks after his inauguration. “The only wise and honorable and Christian thing to do is to treat each Black man and each white man strictly on his merits as a man, giving him no more and no less than he shows himself worthy to have,” Roosevelt wrote of his meeting.

Roosevelt also defended Minnie Cox, the country’s first African American female postmaster, after she was driven out of Indianola, Mississippi, because of the color of her skin. He appointed Black Americans to prominent positions, such as his nomination of Dr. William Crum as customs collector in Charleston, South Carolina, which drew considerable political opposition and this presidential response: “I cannot consent to take the position that the door of hope—the door of opportunity—is to be shut upon any man, no matter how worthy, purely upon the grounds of race or color.”

To me, that's more a function of believing in a hierarchy of cultures rather than physical race. In his day, that was a similar belief of black people as well. Although it's common for American cultural academics to set Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois against one another, both saw that the slave culture impressed upon black people was dysfunctional and black Americans needed to rise above it to general equality.
 
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Aldebaran

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Didn't Moses make a statue which kept the chosen out of the promised land for 40 years? Who really cares about a Jefferson statue, and let's not forget he owned many slaves up until his death.

You're probably thinking of his brother Aaron, assuming you're referring to the calf debacle.
 
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And I don't really care if it was Moses or somebody else, the point is the same. The truth of the matter is that nearly all white people in Jefferson's day were racist, yet today the right does not want children to know the truth about the history of America. Shame on them. I suppose they will find the truth on Trump's new social site.... LOL
 
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Estrid

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And I don't really care if it was Moses or somebody else, the point is the same. The truth of the matter is that nearly all white people in Jefferson's day were racist, yet today the right does not want children to know the truth about the history of America. Shame on them. I suppose they will find the truth on Trump's new social site.... LOL

Its the new acceptable bigotry:
Conservatives are racists.
And hate "the truth"!

Never mind that everyone is racist ageist
sexist etc in some measure.
Its the human condition.
People who claim they've none of it in them
are just doing the "some of my best friends" snuffle.
 
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Aldebaran

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And I don't really care if it was Moses or somebody else, the point is the same. The truth of the matter is that nearly all white people in Jefferson's day were racist, yet today the right does not want children to know the truth about the history of America. Shame on them. I suppose they will find the truth on Trump's new social site.... LOL

Then do you believe that nearly all white people who lived at the same time as Jefferson should be presumed racist, and their legacies be cancelled? Or....does the worth and contributions of a person extend beyond what a person thinks of someone with a different skin color?
 
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98cwitr

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And I don't really care if it was Moses or somebody else, the point is the same. The truth of the matter is that nearly all white people in Jefferson's day were racist, yet today the right does not want children to know the truth about the history of America. Shame on them. I suppose they will find the truth on Trump's new social site.... LOL

We're told today that all white people are racist. Not sure human nature has changed in 6000 years (as in, we are fallen and therefore become overtly tribal, as is our natural state), but obviously society has progressed.

Racists of all colors need to hear love preached, rather than the rattle of sabers and the construction of their crosses. You don't fight racism with more racism

Daryl Davis is a wonderful example of what I'm referring to.
 
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Belk

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We're told today that all white people are racist. Not sure human nature has changed in 6000 years (as in, we are fallen and therefore become overtly tribal, as is our natural state), but obviously society has progressed.

Racists of all colors need to hear love preached, rather than the rattle of sabers and the construction of their crosses. You don't fight racism with more racism

Daryl Davis is a wonderful example of what I'm referring to.


By whom?
 
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Aldebaran

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So, one person? Why do you care about this authors opinion?

You're the one who asked for an example. So why not tell us why you wanted to know?
 
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Pommer

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So, one person? Why do you care about this authors opinion?
People at the tippy top of a hierarchy will never see the injustices that keep them there, unless they look for those injustices.
 
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Belk

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You're the one who asked for an example. So why not tell us why you wanted to know?
Because the complaint was

We're told today that all white people are racist. Not sure human nature has changed in 6000 years (as in, we are fallen and therefore become overtly tribal, as is our natural state), but obviously society has progressed.

Racists of all colors need to hear love preached, rather than the rattle of sabers and the construction of their crosses. You don't fight racism with more racism

Daryl Davis is a wonderful example of what I'm referring to.

So I wanted to know whom was saying that. It is kind of like the fact that I am told all liberals are communists. It is true, it happens, but not from anyone with a well reasoned argument so who cares?
 
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Aldebaran

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Because the complaint was


So I wanted to know whom was saying that. It is kind of like the fact that I am told all liberals are communists. It is true, it happens, but not from anyone with a well reasoned argument so who cares?

The phrase, "We're told today that all white people are racist" is another way of saying that it's a common narrative that people who believe such things put forth. The example I showed you is one of those who wrote an entire book about it; spreading that narrative around.
 
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98cwitr

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Because the complaint was



So I wanted to know whom was saying that. It is kind of like the fact that I am told all liberals are communists. It is true, it happens, but not from anyone with a well reasoned argument so who cares?

Ashleigh Shackleford - BLM activist

599b5654344570014e07550c-1503369176228-758x426.png


Even have t-shirts

iu


Certain opinion writers

iu


Student from Cambridge

iu



I can keep going....for a while

The reason people care is because it gained traction.
 
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Belk

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Ashleigh Shackleford - BLM activist

599b5654344570014e07550c-1503369176228-758x426.png


Even have t-shirts

iu


Certain opinion writers

iu


Student from Cambridge

iu



I can keep going....for a while

The reason people care is because it gained traction.


Cool. Go on for a while and I'll post one for one members of the KKK and other extremists from the other side.

Point being this is not a mainstream sentiment and it is not "gaining traction" in any way I can see.
 
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98cwitr

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Cool. Go on for a while and I'll post one for one members of the KKK and other extremists from the other side.

Point being this is not a mainstream sentiment and it is not "gaining traction" in any way I can see.

No need I see...either one supports this broad-brush label or not. It should never be a tit-for-tat comparison. That's not an honest argument. Either we condemn all racism, or we simply end up supporting racism.
 
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Belk

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No need I see...either one supports this broad-brush label or not. It should never be a tit-for-tat comparison. That's not an honest argument. Either we condemn all racism, or we simply end up supporting racism.

Just pointing out that it is not a common opinion and we should not be validating the extremes by treating as if it is. I have no qualms about condemning the people who claim this as extremists.
 
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