power1

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Scripture doesn't say that water was separated by space, it says it was separated by a dome.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


So the stars were in this expanse of heaven. That was the expanse that separated the waters below from the waters above. To interpret that as solid is unreasonable. The birds flew in heaven also, the lower part of the heavens. Do you really thing people thought that birds flew in solid metal?
 
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Job 33:6

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14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


So the stars were in this expanse of heaven. That was the expanse that separated the waters below from the waters above. To interpret that as solid is unreasonable. The birds flew in heaven also, the lower part of the heavens. Do you really thing people thought that birds flew in solid metal?

And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 LEB

with him can you spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18 LEB

He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,
Isaiah 40:22 LEB




And where does scripture say that this expanse was what you call "space"? Where does it say that the firmament was millions of light years in thickness?

It doesn't. You've just assumed that's what it means because in your modern scientifically educated mind, thats the best you can figure. Stars are massive objects, billions of kilometers in circumference. UY scuti, a red supergiant star, is 9500 light years away, that's 55,800,000,000,000,000 miles away and it's over 750,000,000 miles in diameter. So surely the firmament must be at least this thick as to contain this star.

But scripture just doesn't say that. Notice that the same word "firmament" is also translated as "dome" and "expanse". It has been "stretched" or "spread". These are verbs and nouns implying that the firmament was viewed as a flat and relatively thin dome or tent-like object.

It's not space at all, and scripture does not describe it as such. Space is empty void. The firmament is thin spread structure.
 
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And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 LEB


And where does scripture say that this expanse was what you call "space"? Where does it say that the firmament was millions of light years in thickness?
What would you call where the stars are? People usually call that space.

It doesn't. You've just assumed that's what it means because in your modern scientifically educated mind, thats the best you can figure. Stars are massive objects, billions of kilometers in circumference. UY scuti, a red supergiant star, is 9500 light years away, that's 55,800,000,000,000,000 miles away and it's over 750,000,000 miles in diameter. So surely the firmament must be at least this thick as to contain this star.
I do not believe science has a proper conception or understanding of this universe. Since this is not a science forum, it is no use discussing it here. As I said, Gabriel travelled across the universe we observe faster than Daniel could open his eyes and pray.
But scripture just doesn't say that. Notice that the same word "firmament" is also translated as "dome" and "expanse". It has been "stretched" or "spread". These are verbs and nouns implying that the firmament was viewed as a flat and relatively thin dome or tent-like object.
Just because you can translate a word several different ways does not mean it is used each way!
It's not space at all, and scripture does not describe it as such.
What would you call the space where stars and the moon and sun are then? A tomato??
 
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Job 33:6

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What would you call where the stars are? People usually call that space.

I do not believe science has a proper conception or understanding of this universe. Since this is not a science forum, it is no use discussing it here. As I said, Gabriel travelled across the universe we observe faster than Daniel could open his eyes and pray.
Just because you can translate a word several different ways does not mean it is used each way!
What would you call the space where stars and the moon and sun are then? A tomato??

I'm not finished yet.

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

you who cover yourself with light as with a garment, who stretch out the heavens like a tent curtain,
Psalms 104:2 LEB


How can he walk on the firmament if it's space? As if it's flat. Look at all of these verses that clearly describe something different than what you are describing.
 
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Job 33:6

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I'm not finished yet.

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

you who cover yourself with light as with a garment, who stretch out the heavens like a tent curtain,
Psalms 104:2 LEB


How can he walk on the firmament if it's space? As if it's flat. Look at all of these verses that clearly describe something different than what you are describing.

And more.

Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, it appeared like [it was made of] sapphire or lapis lazuli; and [seated] on that which looked like a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
Ezekiel 1:26 AMP

Above the expanse over their heads. Interesting. So they looked up and could see above the expanse. Did they have telescopes back then? How could they see so far?
 
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Job 33:6

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And more.

Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, it appeared like [it was made of] sapphire or lapis lazuli; and [seated] on that which looked like a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
Ezekiel 1:26 AMP

Above the expanse over their heads. Interesting. So they looked up and could see above the expanse.

There are dozens of verses all throughout scripture that describe the firmament more as a dome or a tent or a thinly spread structure, a spread or expanded structure, much like metal is spread with a hammer. Did they believe that it was literally metal? Maybe, maybe not. But one thing is absolutely clear, this was something of a solid nature that was relatively thin, that they could see themselves reaching if they simply had a ladder tall enough. They simply didn't know that the stars were hundreds of millions of light years away. They didn't know what stars were at all aside from tiny lights. They thought it was all right above them.


They didn't view it as "space" as you've described it, nor did they view it as being hundreds of millions of miles in thickness. Else how could they see above it?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You need to take off your modern scientific mind, and put on their ancient Hebrew mind. View creation from their perspective and in their shoes.
 
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power1

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I'm not finished yet.

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

How can he walk on the firmament if it's space? As if it's flat. Look at all of these verses that clearly describe something different than what you are describing.
Actually the word means this "1) circle, circuit, compass
 
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power1

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And more.

Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, it appeared like [it was made of] sapphire or lapis lazuli; and [seated] on that which looked like a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
Ezekiel 1:26 AMP

Above the expanse over their heads. Interesting. So they looked up and could see above the expanse.
There was a flying object above. This helps you..how?
 
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Job 33:6

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There was a flying object above. This helps you..how?

Every verse noted above and many more, describe the firmament as a tent like dome, flat structure of a thin thickness.

Stars are hundreds of millions of light years away and are hundreds of millions of miles thick. How do you propose they could see above the firmament, someone walking on top of the firmament at such a great distance? And what was there to walk on if it was empty space? Did they have a telescope?
 
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power1

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There are dozens of verses all throughout scripture that describe the firmament more as a dome or a tent or a thinly spread structure, a spread or expanded structure, much like metal is spread with a hammer. Did they believe that it was literally metal? Maybe, maybe not. But one thing is absolutely clear, this was something of a solid nature that was relatively thin, that they could see themselves reaching if they simply had a ladder tall enough. They simply didn't know that the stars were hundreds of millions of light years away. They didn't know what stars were at all aside from tiny lights. They thought it was all right above them.


They didn't view it as "space" as you've described it, nor did they view it as being hundreds of millions of miles in thickness. Else how could they see above it?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You need to take off your modern scientific mind, and put on their ancient Hebrew mind. View creation from their perspective and in their shoes.
Apparently there are many verses you misunderstand. For example the idea of building up to heaven. The tower of Babel does not show us that they thought a tower would break through some metal up there. It was built to reach real high, where, at that time perhaps, there may have been some sort of spirit habitat. There were sons of god coming down and marrying women if you recall.
 
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Job 33:6

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Apparently there are many verses you misunderstand. For example the idea of building up to heaven. The tower of Babel does not show us that they thought a tower would break through some metal up there. It was built to reach real high, where, at that time perhaps, there may have been some sort of spirit habitat. There were sons of god coming down and marrying women if you recall.

Let's stick to the subject.

Look at all those verses above that describe the firmament in stark contrast to how you've described it.
 
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power1

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Every verse noted above and many more, describe the firmament as a tent like dome, flat structure of a thin thickness.

Stars are hundreds of millions of light years away and are hundreds of millions of miles thick. How do you propose they could see above the firmament, someone walking on top of the firmament at such a great distance? And what was there to walk on if it was empty space? Did they have a telescope?
No. In Eze there was the throne of God hovering above. That was not up where stars are, more like where birds are. As I said you don't comprehend what you read.
 
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Job 33:6

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And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 LEB

with him can you spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18 LEB

He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,
Isaiah 40:22 LEB

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

you who cover yourself with light as with a garment, who stretch out the heavens like a tent curtain,
Psalms 104:2 LEB

Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, it appeared like [it was made of] sapphire or lapis lazuli; and [seated] on that which looked like a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
Ezekiel 1:26 AMP
 
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Job 33:6

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No. In Eze there was the throne of God hovering above. That was not up where stars are, more like where birds are. As I said you don't comprehend what you read.

You're not answering the question. If it was above the firmament and hundreds of millions of light years away, how do you propose that they saw it above their heads?
 
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You're not answering the question. If it was above the firmament and hundreds of millions of light years away, how do you propose that they saw it above their heads?
The heavens were not just up in space. The heavens were also what the sky where birds fly was called. The flying wheel was right up there and beings were coming down and going up to it. Nothing to do with space or the firmament where the stars are.
 
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Job 33:6

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Let's keep going.

And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 LEB

with him can you spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18 LEB

He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,
Isaiah 40:22 LEB

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

you who cover yourself with light as with a garment, who stretch out the heavens like a tent curtain,
Psalms 104:2 LEB

Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, it appeared like [it was made of] sapphire or lapis lazuli; and [seated] on that which looked like a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
Ezekiel 1:26 AMP


Some more.


And there was a voice above the expanse that was over their heads; whenever they stopped, they lowered their wings.
Ezekiel 1:25 AMP
Ezekiel 1:25 And there was a voice above the expanse that was over their heads; whenever they stopped, they lowered their wings. | Amplified Bible (AMP) | Download The Bible App Now

Ok, so not only can they see above the expanse, but they can hear sounds of a voice above the expanse as well.

How do you propose sound travelled through empty space over hundreds of millions of light years?

And [in my vision] this horn grew up to the host of heaven, and caused some of the host and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled on them.
Daniel 8:10 AMP

Trampled stars? Trampled gas objects that are millions of miles on diameter?

No. Let's go back and put ourselves in their shoes. And not let our scientific minds transform the original textual meaning.
 
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Job 33:6

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The heavens were not just up in space. The heavens were also what the sky where birds fly was called. The flying wheel was right up there and beings were coming down and going up to it. Nothing to do with space or the firmament where the stars are.

Above the dome that was over their heads was something like a throne that looked like a sapphire. On it, above it, was what appeared to be a person.
Yechezk'el (Ezk) 1:26 CJB

They're talking about the firmament. Quit trying to change the text. Here's a Jewish translation above.

Ezekiel 1:26 Hebrew Text Analysis

I've given you something like a dozen verses now (and I have more).

I mean, it's so blatantly obvious that your belief about what they meant when they spoke of the firmament, is simply incorrect.
 
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power1

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Let's keep going.

And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 LEB

with him can you spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18 LEB

He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,
Isaiah 40:22 LEB

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

you who cover yourself with light as with a garment, who stretch out the heavens like a tent curtain,
Psalms 104:2 LEB

Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, it appeared like [it was made of] sapphire or lapis lazuli; and [seated] on that which looked like a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
Ezekiel 1:26 AMP


Some more.


And there was a voice above the expanse that was over their heads; whenever they stopped, they lowered their wings.
Ezekiel 1:25 AMP
Ezekiel 1:25 And there was a voice above the expanse that was over their heads; whenever they stopped, they lowered their wings. | Amplified Bible (AMP) | Download The Bible App Now

Ok, so not only can they see above the expanse, but they can hear sounds of a voice above the expanse as well.

How do you propose sound travelled through empty space over hundreds of millions of light years?

And [in my vision] this horn grew up to the host of heaven, and caused some of the host and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled on them.
Daniel 8:10 AMP

Trampled stars? Trampled gas objects that are millions of miles on diameter?

No. Let's go back and put ourselves in their shoes. And not let our scientific minds transform the original textual meaning.
Your many misunderstanding of various verses is clear. When Eze sees something in the sky you try to make it sound like the edge of the universe. When on of Job's councillors refers to the sky on a clear night, you think that means it was metal. Looking at a commentary I see this

"Strong-as a molten looking-glass? — Like a molten mirror. The whole concave of heaven, in a clear day or brilliant night, being like a mass of polished metal, reflecting or transmitting innumerable images."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/acc/job-37.html#verse-18
If God has a usual orbit or circuit over the world He uses and from up there men look small, you think this means the universe millions of miles away or something. Sorry, no one needs to use such a myopic and small view when interpreting Scripture.
 
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Job 33:6

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Above the dome that was over their heads was something like a throne that looked like a sapphire. On it, above it, was what appeared to be a person.
Yechezk'el (Ezk) 1:26 CJB

They're talking about the firmament. Quit trying to change the text. Here's a Jewish translation above.

Ezekiel 1:26 Hebrew Text Analysis

I've given you something like a dozen verses now (and I have more).

I mean, it's so blatantly obvious that your belief about what they meant when they spoke of the firmament, is simply incorrect.

Maybe one day you will actually accept what the Bible says. And when you get to that point, you will see that it is extraordinarily and blatantly obvious, that the firmament was not space, nor was it millions of miles thick in a way in which could feasibly contain stars inside it (much like a bowling ball could fit inside a swimming pool).

But rather the firmament was a relatively thin expanse, stretched like a tent. And stars in the eyes of the Hebrews were not as we know them (gas Giants hundreds of millions of miles in diameter), but rather stats to Hebrews were twinkling lights that were just above their heads and relatively speaking, they were small and perhaps thin as well.

How were they "in" the firmament you ask? I've already answered that. They were "in" the firmament much like a thumb tack is "in" a cork board. Stuck "in" it, hence why all stars moved together at the same speeds, because they were stuck in the structure (not space) of the firmament.

It just couldn't be more obvious.
 
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Above the dome that was over their heads was something like a throne that looked like a sapphire. On it, above it, was what appeared to be a person.
Yechezk'el (Ezk) 1:26 CJB

They're talking about the firmament. Quit trying to change the text. Here's a Jewish translation above.

Ezekiel 1:26 Hebrew Text Analysis

I've given you something like a dozen verses now (and I have more).

I mean, it's so blatantly obvious that your belief about what they meant when they spoke of the firmament, is simply incorrect.
Eze 1 has zero to do with where the stars are. It is about what some people have called God's flying Saucer above with angels flying down to earth and going up to it again. Nothing to do with what you seem to think it is talking about. The guy was by a river and a cloud came by from which this came out of.
 
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