- Sep 28, 2021
- 1,823
- 737
- 43
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Generic Orthodox Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Ok. Well, thank you guys. I have my answer. See ya later.
Upvote
0
The descriptions of synergism (as opposed to monergism) seem to vary according to the view of the describer, ranging from "co-operation" to "greater effect than the efforts of either one by themselves.", as though we add what God cannot accomplish on his own.We do have to 'co'-operate with God's grace it's true. But it is not a 50-50 sort of thing. God gives us the grace to even be able to begin to cooperate. It's all grace, with us basically saying as Mary said, 'Let it be done to me'. We are cleansed and made holy, but we didn't do a bit of the heavy lifting ourselves. We are no longer a dungheap and definitely not a dungheap covered in snow to look all pretty. We become cleansed and holy. If we soil ourselves we have access to sacramental confession and absolution, by the same power of Christ that first cleansed us.
God Bless you abundantly.Ok. Well, thank you guys. I have my answer. See ya later.
You too, my dear!God Bless you abundantly.
God does not accomplish the work without our consent. We can do nothing without God. So it's not about who does more. God does it all if we but consent to it and allow it.The descriptions of synergism (as opposed to monergism) seem to vary according to the view of the describer, ranging from "co-operation" to "greater effect than the efforts of either one by themselves.", as though we add what God cannot accomplish on his own.
Not that you haven't heard this before, but: We (as lost, the flesh, enemies of God) never give consent to what God does in us, until he changes us to want what he wants. Regeneration is the work of God alone. The Gospel is the work of God from first to last.God does not accomplish the work without our consent. We can do nothing without God. So it's not about who does more. God does it all if we but consent to it and allow it.
Not that you haven't heard this before, but: We (as lost, the flesh, enemies of God) never give consent to what God does in us, until he changes us to want what he wants. Regeneration is the work of God alone. The Gospel is the work of God from first to last.
Catholics believe in prevenient grace. So God frees the will, the will then responds and is justified. There may be room to move in Catholic Soteriology toward a more Reform position. Idk, it's been yrs since I read Aquinas.
Thank you.@Mark Quayle ,
You may find this helpful:
https://theophilogue.com/2010/05/24...rating-and-prevenient-grace-summa-theologica/
Oh, I've heard it before. In fact it's good Catholic doctrine that without God first moving us we couldn't even will to cooperate in our salvation by our consent. We are free to do so only after grace first moves us. Without grace we are enslaved in sin with no ability to do anything about it.Not that you haven't heard this before, but: We (as lost, the flesh, enemies of God) never give consent to what God does in us, until he changes us to want what he wants. Regeneration is the work of God alone. The Gospel is the work of God from first to last.
Oh, I've heard it before. In fact it's good Catholic doctrine that without God first moving us we couldn't even will to cooperate in our salvation by our consent. We are free to do so only after grace first moves us. Without grace we are enslaved in sin with no ability to do anything about it.
Jimmy Akin refers to initial justification here: Justification in Catholic Teaching | EWTNDoes initial justification occur prior to our assent or after?
Jimmy Akin refers to initial justification here: Justification in Catholic Teaching | EWTN
He says it occurs at the moment of conversion. Which I think is to say at the moment of consent. It is the moment we receive righteousness through Christ. Which may make some sense following Augustine, who said God would not save us without our willing it.
This moment of consent was prepared for by grace, not an irresistible grace but a preparatory grace without which not even consent would be possible.
Akin also refers to chapters 3 through 9 of the sixth session of the council of Trent as relevant to initial justification.
I include a link to an older systematic theologian Joseph Pohle, I have trusted. The meaning seems equivalent to Jimmy Akin's without use of the term 'initial': Justification
If you do take it down, post it somewhere else. I'd like to discuss this from a RC pov. Tag me. ThanksThe bible teaches that Justification is a one time process. Justification through faith alone, in Christ alone. The sinner believes, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to them forever, incorruptible, unchanging.
Whereas Roman Catholic doctrine teaches that Justification is the beginning of a pursuit of holiness, and that this grace of justification can be lost through 'mortal sin.'
So it appears that in Roman Catholicism justification depends on a person's sanctification; whereas in Biblical Christianity, it depends on Christ's finished work on the cross.
Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Hope this helps.
I'm not a Roman Catholic. If this is not allowed here, please inform me and I'll take it off.
John 19:30
The bible teaches that Justification is a one time process. Justification through faith alone, in Christ alone. The sinner believes, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to them forever, incorruptible, unchanging.
Whereas Roman Catholic doctrine teaches that Justification is the beginning of a pursuit of holiness, and that this grace of justification can be lost through 'mortal sin.'
So it appears that in Roman Catholicism justification depends on a person's sanctification; whereas in Biblical Christianity, it depends on Christ's finished work on the cross.
Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Hope this helps.
I'm not a Roman Catholic. If this is not allowed here, please inform me and I'll take it off.
John 19:30
The bible teaches that Justification is a one time process. Justification through faith alone, in Christ alone. The sinner believes, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to them forever, incorruptible, unchanging.
Whereas Roman Catholic doctrine teaches that Justification is the beginning of a pursuit of holiness, and that this grace of justification can be lost through 'mortal sin.'
So it appears that in Roman Catholicism justification depends on a person's sanctification; whereas in Biblical Christianity, it depends on Christ's finished work on the cross.
Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Hope this helps.
I'm not a Roman Catholic. If this is not allowed here, please inform me and I'll take it off.
John 19:30