Now they're taking down statues of Thomas Jefferson

Estrid said:

Hard to say.

Click to expand...

Are you joking? You make a snotty comment about the Sioux stealing the land but you don't know anything about it????

pacomascarot said:

OK, tell us which tribe that is. I'm genuinely curious. I'm sure there may have been a tribe before the Sioux there but I don't know who it was. Perhaps you in your great knowledge can let me know!

Click to expand...

Check wiki.

And the snark if you want a future response.

Estrid said:

Check wiki.

Click to expand...

I'm glad you don't actually have a point...just empty accusations.

It's refreshing that you don't even believe your own point enough to care about making it a real point.

And the snark if you want a future response.

Click to expand...

Why would I care about a reply from YOU?? Seriously...you just blathered on for multiple posts about the Sioux stealing land yet you don't even know anything about it per your own comments!

You are literally the last person I care to get any response from! LOL

DaisyDay said:

Hahaha - that's funny because Rep. Pelosi is a woman who is no longer young thus ripe for ridicule.

Click to expand...

Fwiw, my personal opinion of her looks is that she is still an amazingly good looking woman.

pacomascarot said:

I'm glad you don't actually have a point...just empty accusations.

It's refreshing that you don't even believe your own point enough to care about making it a real point.



Why would I care about a reply from YOU?? Seriously...you just blathered on for multiple posts about the Sioux stealing land yet you don't even know anything about it per your own comments!

You are literally the last person I care to get any response from! LOL

Click to expand...

Whatever you said-
Bye.

Mark Quayle said:

Fwiw, my personal opinion of her looks is that she is still an amazingly good looking woman.

Click to expand...

And yet you ridiculed those looks. You admire faces that appear about ready to crack and that are held together by a mask? Well, okay...

Estrid said:

MLK had his faults too.
Only the 100% perfect can represent what lesser people
might aspire to emulate.

Click to expand...

Then you can tear them all down and do away with human history in the process. Ummm, I think that is exactly what the statue destroyers have in mind.

MMXX said:

I was being facetious for the most part. But still I think the sentiment exists somewhere. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see a petition for something like having the UW statue of Washington removed and the name of the university changed.

Click to expand...

UW could keep the same initials by becoming the University of Woke. And it might fit them better.

chevyontheriver said:

Then you can tear them all down and do away with human history in the process. Ummm, I think that is exactly what the statue destroyers have in mind.

Click to expand...

That does not quite make sense.
Its more about historical revisionism.

The heroes must first be cast down, before they can be
recast as villains.

Aldebaran said:

No need to become defensive. I just figure that if statues of presidents shouldn't be there, then neither should a statue of MLK? Doesn't that seem fair to you?

Click to expand...

Who said "statues of presidents shouldn't be there" in Washington, DC? Nobody in this thread.

Sparagmos said:

The squad, of course!

Click to expand...

What about those ninja turtles?

Tom 1 said:

What about those ninja turtles?

Click to expand...

They couldn't find any fraud.

Aldebaran said:

And yet, they're all being removed. Ironic, eh?

Click to expand...

Except that's a false statement.

Aldebaran said:

Well, let's take Teddy Roosevelt as an example:
"The American Museum of Natural History has asked to remove the Theodore Roosevelt statue because it explicitly depicts Black and Indigenous people as subjugated and racially inferior," his office said at the time.
The Theodore Roosevelt statue in front of New York's Museum of Natural History will finally be removed - CNN.

Click to expand...

Roosevelt's views on a number of matters such as racial equality and even eugenics are tough to read (you can read a few of them here: How Teddy Roosevelt's Belief in a Racial Hierarchy Shaped His Policies). Doing my best not to invoke Godwins Law, let's just say that if I translated them into German, you'd almost certainly pick the wrong author of the comments.

And based just on those comments, no reasonable person would want a statue of such a man erected anywhere.

The question is: Does the good he did excuse the views he held? Or do his views override the good? It's a tough call.

Aldebaran said:

Well, let's take Teddy Roosevelt as an example:
"The American Museum of Natural History has asked to remove the Theodore Roosevelt statue because it explicitly depicts Black and Indigenous people as subjugated and racially inferior," his office said at the time.
The Theodore Roosevelt statue in front of New York's Museum of Natural History will finally be removed - CNN

And then George Washington and Abe Lincoln:
Last summer and fall, protesters toppled Portland statues depicting three U.S. presidents: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt.

Last month, local authorities quietly adopted a policy that could ensure the statues stay down.
https://www.wweek.com/news/city/202...residents-new-rules-may-keep-them-mothballed/

And another one of Abe Lincoln:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/midw...0200630-hhfadge53fethiobylwvklz24q-story.html

Yeah, so much for it being a "false statement".

Click to expand...

Those are not DC

Bradskii said:

Roosevelt's views on a number of matters such as racial equality and even eugenics are tough to read (you can read a few of them here: How Teddy Roosevelt's Belief in a Racial Hierarchy Shaped His Policies). Doing my best not to invoke Godwins Law, let's just say that if I translated them into German, you'd almost certainly pick the wrong author of the comments.

And based just on those comments, no reasonable person would want a statue of such a man erected anywhere.

The question is: Does the good he did excuse the views he held? Or do his views override the good? It's a tough call.

Click to expand...

I consider myself to be reasonable.
Actual deeds for good or will of course outweigh
mere views.

Ive read a lot about TR.
Amazing man interestingly similar to Churchill.
Neither man was in all ways adnirable.
Who is?

That the Asian exclusion act would have kept me from
entering the USA. I dont think much of his enjoyment
of killing animals or his enthusiasm for war.

Ive seen the statue in NYC, I lived at about 80th and Broadway.

To my mind, only the profoundly unreasonable would want it
taken down.

The reasonable person for one would see more value in giving
the thousands it cost to move it to needy third world children
than in indulging their little trumped up feelings.

Aldebaran said:

Land shouldn't be deified.

Click to expand...

And all the Jews laughed and laughed.

Aldebaran said: ↑
Then maybe all paintings are other likenesses of George Floyd should be removed,

RDKirk said: ↑
I'm fine with that. He should never have been lionized in the first place.

Aldebaran said: ↑
The MLK statue in DC should be taken down as well.

RDKirk said: ↑
No. But I'll make note that Martin Luther King and George Floyd look the same to you.

Aldebaran said: ↑
No need to become defensive. I just figure that if statues of presidents shouldn't be there, then neither should a statue of MLK? Doesn't that seem fair to you?

RDKirk said: ↑
Who said "statues of presidents shouldn't be there" in Washington, DC? Nobody in this thread.

Aldebaran said: ↑
And yet, they're all being removed. Ironic, eh?

RDKirk said: ↑
Except that's a false statement.

Aldebaran said:

Well, let's take Teddy Roosevelt as an example:
"The American Museum of Natural History has asked to remove the Theodore Roosevelt statue because it explicitly depicts Black and Indigenous people as subjugated and racially inferior," his office said at the time.
The Theodore Roosevelt statue in front of New York's Museum of Natural History will finally be removed - CNN

And then George Washington and Abe Lincoln:
Last summer and fall, protesters toppled Portland statues depicting three U.S. presidents: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt.

Last month, local authorities quietly adopted a policy that could ensure the statues stay down.
https://www.wweek.com/news/city/202...residents-new-rules-may-keep-them-mothballed/

And another one of Abe Lincoln:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/midw...0200630-hhfadge53fethiobylwvklz24q-story.html

Yeah, so much for it being a "false statement".

Click to expand...

Estrid said:

Those are not DC

Click to expand...

Estrid has been studiously following the discussion and correctly points out that Aldebaran is attempting obfuscation.