When was Satan bound?

Spiritual Jew

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Oh. So it is now arrogance to believe in absolute truth. Many of us felt by Premil because it is a doctrine that enjoys zero corroboration. You know that. Amil is the consistent teaching of Scripture. Why would we doubt the Scriptures?

Please outline what the "Amil ... share of problems" is in your opinion.
For some reason he thinks that we should doubt our beliefs and see problems with what we believe the way he does. Can it get any more ridiculous than that? He's basically criticizing us for being confident about our beliefs (and confusing our confidence with arrogance). What?! I guess he wants us to be less confident and to have doubts about what we believe like him. No, thanks.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Here is my reasoning for my answer of "no".

In Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself is speaking in the text, having returned to this earth.

In those verses, He goes over why the Jews were forced into the nations for rejecting Him. But had since (during the great tribulation) had turned to Him. Which Jesus indicates...

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Which I think it will be during the great tribulation, that God pours out His spirit onto the world, to counter the lies of the Satan and his group, especially to the Jews who will need that assurance to endure to the end.
Why are you not accepting Peter's interpretation of Joel 2:28-32? Some people who were seeing what was happening on the day of Pentecost accused people who were having the Holy Spirit poured out on them of being drunk. And Peter, in Acts 2:16-21, said "No, this is what the prophet Joel prophesied about" and then he proceeded to quote Joel 2:28-32.

At the very least, the day of Pentecost partially fulfilled or began the fulfillment of Acts 2:28-32 since the Holy Spirit clearly was poured out on that day and people did prophesy back then and people did perform signs and wonders at that time. How can you not even acknowledge that? To me, you're denying that Peter knew what he was talking about.
 
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Douggg

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Those who will have "sudden destruction" come upon them from which "they will not escape" are those who are not saved and are in spiritual darkness. They think they are at peace spiritually and safe from God's wrath, but they are not.
If they are unbelievers, then they will think there is no such thing as God. And even if they thought that there is a God, they would not be believing what the bible says about God's wrath - that it would be something to be concerned about - i.e. it doesn't exist to them. So why would they be thinking that they are safe from something that doesn't exist to them?

The world saying peace and safety will be after God destroys Gog and allies' attack on Israel. And in the aftermath, the little horn prince who shall come into the middle east will be perceived by the Jews as the messiah. And a false perceived messianic age begun. That is why the world will be saying peace and safety at the time.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Why would we admit that the truth has its share of problems? Are you kidding? How could it be the truth in that case? It seems to me that it's "sheer arrogance" for you to assume that everyone has to agree with you that both views have their share of problems. The only thing I will "admit" is that I think you are often not able to discern the difference between figurative and literal text in scripture and that is why you see problems with both views.

It's amazing to me that you think Premil has its share of problems and, yet, you are staunchly Premil and you try to refute Amil every chance you get. How does that make any sense? If you think both views have their share of problems than I would think you wouldn't be committed to supporting either view and you would be more objective than you are.

Exactly! Ironically, he is the most rigid Premil on these boards and recognizes it enjoys no corroboration elsewhere in Scripture and there is multiple holes in the theory, yet refuses to abandon it. A ship full of holes normally sinks.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Yes, He will do that. How does that refute what I said, though? It doesn't. He will take vengeance on all people who don't know God when He returns. 2 Peter 3:10-12 is quite clear that He will be taking vengeance on all unbelievers on the earth. It will be "sudden destruction" by fire from which "they will not escape" (1 Thess 5:2-3).
 
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Douggg

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Why are you not accepting Peter's interpretation of Joel 2:28-32? Some people who were seeing what was happening on the day of Pentecost accused people who were having the Holy Spirit poured out on them of being drunk. And Peter, in Acts 2:16-21, said "No, this is what the prophet Joel prophesied about" and then he proceeded to quote Joel 2:28-32.
Peter was likening the miracle of people there being understood by each other, even though their native language was different, to what Joel said would happen in the last days when God would pour out His Spirit on all flesh.

Do read anything in Act 2 of anyone prophesying? How about signs in heaven? How about the sun turned to darkness? And the moon into blood?

All of those things are found in the passage of Joel that Peter quoted to them.

The point Peter was making it was the Holy Spirit being active among them, to make it possible for the miracle of understanding each other to happen, like it will be in the last days, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven.
 
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DavidPT

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I thought you acknowledged in another post that "the last days" pertain to the time period between the first coming and second coming of Christ, as evidenced by passages like Acts 2:16-21, 2 Peter 3:3-4, Hebrews 1:1-2 and others? Now, you are trying to insist that they refer to a time period AFTER His second coming? How convenient for you to interpret "the last days" in that passage as referring to a different time period than "the last days" of the other passages that refer to the last days.

You might interpret this to mean that I'm trying to shift the focus on you, except that is not what I'm doing. I'm simply illustrating a point, is all. Do you then agree that the last days mentioned in Ezekiel 38 apply to the same time period as the passages you brought up, or am I instead supposed to believe, based on what you are arguing, that there can be no more last days after the last days when your interpretation of Ezekiel 38 alone would be indicating there can be if the last days mentioned in Ezekiel 38 are meaning thousands of years prior to the last days meant in Isaiah 2? Last days have to have a last day otherwise they are not last days. How can last days not have a last day? Amils argue, and maybe even rightfully so, that after the last day of the last days there can then no longer be anymore last days, and then some of these same Amils contradict that argument via their interpretation of Ezekiel 38 and those last days.

Explain exactly how then, assuming you interpret Ezekiel 38 to involve last days not involving the last days recorded in the NT nor Isaiah 2, that what you said about me that it doesn't equally apply to you as well, meaning this---"How convenient for you to interpret "the last days" in that passage as referring to a different time period than "the last days" of the other passages that refer to the last days".


Micah 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.


This right here appears to be meaning during the time when nation shall not lift up sword against nation. What in the here and now, in any sense, could possibly fit with what is described here? It says none shall make them afraid. One is to believe, for example, that if one was in the vicinity of a raging bear lunging towards them, that this wouldn't strike fear in anyone described in verse 4 since none shall make them afraid? What period of time verse 4 seems to be describing is the same period of time Isaiah 65 involving the NHNE is describing. IOW, a raging bear lunging towards you is not a possibility at that time, yet in this age we are currently in, it is. Anyone in their right mind would be afraid if a raging bear was lunging toward them, and not unafraid instead. Are you going to apply verse 4 spiritually then? Even if you do, a raging bear lunging towards you is still going to make anyone in their right mind afraid. To insist otherwise is total nonsense.
 
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Douggg

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DavidPT

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Why would we admit that the truth has its share of problems? Are you kidding? How could it be the truth in that case? It seems to me that it's "sheer arrogance" for you to assume that everyone has to agree with you that both views have their share of problems. The only thing I will "admit" is that I think you are often not able to discern the difference between figurative and literal text in scripture and that is why you see problems with both views.

It's amazing to me that you think Premil has its share of problems and, yet, you are staunchly Premil and you try to refute Amil every chance you get. How does that make any sense? If you think both views have their share of problems than I would think you wouldn't be committed to supporting either view and you would be more objective than you are.


Until I am fully convinced that Amil is the correct position instead, in the meantime I'm still Premil.

It looks like I proved my point, though. None of you can get yourselves to admit that Amil has any issues. I can think of numerous Scriptures that can't fit Amil. As a matter of fact, I have already done that in the past. And so have others. Take the GWTJ, for instance. There is no way, since it would be totally unfair of God, to rush that judgment and have it begin and conclude within 24 hours or less. Billions and billions of ppl are going to stand before Him one at a time and give an account of themselves, and that this is only going to take 24 hours or less? That is plain silly. Assuming the GWTJ did happen in the last day of this age, until that judgment is over it is still the last day of this age in the meantime. And if it involves more than 24 hours, so much for the last day of this age only involving 24 hours or less. But if this judgment is outside of time, how then can it happen in the last day, a day that is not outside of time yet?
 
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sovereigngrace

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For some reason he thinks that we should doubt our beliefs and see problems with what we believe the way he does. Can it get any more ridiculous than that? He's basically criticizing us for being confident about our beliefs (and confusing our confidence with arrogance). What?! I guess he wants us to be less confident and to have doubts about what we believe like him. No, thanks.

That is what happens when you base your beliefs built upon one symbolic passage, with no other clear biblical support..

That is secular humanism - no absolute rights and no absolute wrongs. Everything is grey. One is not allowed to have a fixed position on God's truth.
 
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DavidPT

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The last 1991 years has been a 95% failure. Slightly better than the 98% failure of nation of Israel prior to the Cross. So much of a failure that certain protestants declared total depravity of mankind. I would not go that far. We have the ability to destroy ourselves, not a mandate and certainly not the only ability. The ability to change one's mind seems lost on the very people who have claimed to have been able to change their minds. There are some points that many still have to work out, before one can set their thoughts in concrete. Those who have declared victory in the cemented state, do they accept if they are wrong they will want to remain cemented in wrong theology? Is there really a point any human can have it all figured out?


Speaking of having everything all figured out, I ran across an article just the other day where it appears that maybe this person thinks that they have it all figured out.

The following is an excerpt from that article. If you care to read any more of it, just go to the link I provided.

-----------



The "Day of the Lord" Can Also Be Exactly 1,000 Years;
Reconciling Millennial and Amillennial Bible Prophecy Viewpoints

"The Day of the Lord" is mentioned in various ways more than 80 times in the Old and New Testaments in the
Bible‐‐so we should pay close attention to what it means. In Revelation chapter 20 we are also told that
resurrected believers will reign exactly 1,000 years with Christ during this time of the Day of the Lord.
(Revelation does not say where they will reign.) Also Satan will be bound and sealed in a spiritual abyss prison
for exactly 1,000 years. Why are both of these events in Revelation exactly the same amount of time? How
are they related? What is God telling us? Is it just symbolic or literal? It is literal!!!!


In Christianity today there is a great debate between those that interpret the 1,000 years as literal and those
that do not. Those that see the 1,000 years as literal are generally called "millennialists", while those that do
not are called "amillennialists." Understanding the 1,000 years as literal at first seems simple, but a 1,000 year
kingdom (on earth) after Christ returns on the Day of the Lord conflicts with many dozens of other equally
important Bible prophetic passages. This will be discussed in more detail later, but a simple rebuttal about an
earthly reign is from Jesus himself:

John 18:36 (NIV)

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants
would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is
not from the world.”

Where does Jesus reign? Since his ascension to heaven after His resurrection, Jesus reigns in heaven. The
Apostle Paul tells us this: "For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to
be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15: 25‐26) In Psalms King David makes this clear as well: "The Lord says
to my lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.'” (Psalm 110:1)


A clue to understanding more about this comes from both King David and the Apostle Peter. Peter writes:
"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Peter 3:8) Peter was
writing about the apparent slowness for Christ to return. He tells the believers not to worry about the Day of
the Lord. The primary context of Peter's writing is that believers should be patient.

A secondary context is that Peter uses the phrase "a thousand years". This is the only place in the New
Testament this is mentioned other than in Revelation 20. So Peter is helping us interpret Revelation 20 as
well! Likewise in Psalms, David writes a similar line: "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just
gone by, or like a watch in the night." (Psalm 90:4)

https://revelation-now.org/wp-conte...the-Lord-Will-Be-a-Unique-Day-v-2018-1.00.pdf

-----------------------------------------------
 
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Spiritual Jew

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If they are unbelievers, then they will think there is no such thing as God. And even if they thought that there is a God, they would not be believing what the bible says about God's wrath - that it would be something to be concerned about - i.e. it doesn't exist to them. So why would they be thinking that they are safe from something that doesn't exist to them?
Because they are deceived, obviously. The ones who don't believe in God think they are at peace and safe spiritually. They don't have any thoughts related to thinking that they will be punished for their behavior, so that's why the destruction will come upon them suddenly and unexpectedly.

The world saying peace and safety will be after God destroys Gog and allies' attack on Israel. And in the aftermath, the little horn prince who shall come into the middle east will be perceived by the Jews as the messiah. And a false perceived messianic age begun. That is why the world will be saying peace and safety at the time.
Wrong. What you're saying does not fit the context of what Paul wrote in 1 Thess 5 at all. You're just making things up that have nothing to do with what he actually wrote there. What he wrote had to do with contrasting people who are in spiritual light because of having a personal relationship with God with those who are in spiritual darkness because of being spiritually separated from God. The "peace and safety" has nothing to do with peace and safety in the world, but has to do with the spiritual status of these people who don't think they will have to suffer consequences for their behavior and feel safe from having to face any punishment for their sins (since they don't even acknowledge their sins).

I would equate the time of the end with "the last days" and the end itself with the last day of the last days which will occur on the day Christ returns.
 
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keras

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The Last Day is what is described in Revelation 20:11-15. Then comes Eternity. Rev 21 to 22.
But there is and has been Judgments before that final one:

1 Peter 4:7-11 The end of all things is upon us, therefore to help you pray, you must lead self controlled and sober lives. Above all, love each other, because love cancels out a host of sins. Be hospitable to one another, without grumbling and each one should use whatever gifts that they have received from God to serve others. Use your gifts and strength to glorify God through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and power for ever.

1 Peter 4:12-16 Dear friends, do not be surprised by the fiery trial which is to try you, as though something strange were happening to you, but rejoice, that you participate in the suffering of Christ, then when His glory is revealed, your joy will be great. If you are reviled for being a Christian, count yourself happy, for the Spirit of God rests upon you and if you do suffer, it must not be for any criminal deed. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

1 Peter 4:17-19 For it is time for judgement to begin; it is beginning with God’s own household, as Scripture says; If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the impious and sinful? So let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to Him, while continuing to do good; their Maker will not fail them.

1 Peter 5:10 After your brief suffering, the God of all grace who called you to His eternal glory in Christ will Himself make you perfect, establish, strengthen and settle you.
Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.


The end of all things is upon us’. Peter does not mean the end of the world, but the end of this present age, our time; right now!

do not be surprised by the fiery trial’. This can refer to the persecution of the early church, but is mainly to us in the last days, as we face the forthcoming judgement by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis: the Sixth Seal event. 2 Peter 3:7

His glory revealed’. Firstly that revealing will be to Jesus’ born again people: 2 Thessalonians 1:10, Revelation 14:1 Later; at the Return of Jesus, He will be seen by all the world. Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11

The Judgement begins in God’s household’. The terrible fire judgement prophesied so many times throughout the Bible, will initially strike the Middle East, which includes the present State of Israel. Many prophecies say how all the holy Land will be ‘burnt and devastated’, Jeremiah 9:10-12, Jeremiah 10:18, Isaiah 10:23

make you perfect, establish, strengthen and settle you’. This will be the fulfilment of all the great promises of how the Lord will gather His faithful Christian people, Ezekiel 34:11 and how He will pour out His Spirit upon them, Ezekiel 37:14, Isaiah 35:1-10 Then they will be established and settled into all of the area promised to Abraham. Genesis 17:8, Isaiah 62:1-5
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Until I am fully convinced that Amil is the correct position instead, in the meantime I'm still Premil.
Why are you Premil when you acknowledge that Premil has its share of problems? Are you in the habit of embracing things as truth that have their share of problems? That makes no sense to me at all.

It looks like I proved my point, though. None of you can get yourselves to admit that Amil has any issues.
Again, why would we admit that something we believe is true has issues? Are you even thinking about what you're saying here? Does the truth have issues? It can't. That's why it's the truth.

I can think of numerous Scriptures that can't fit Amil.
IN YOUR OWN MIND. I can't think of any that can't fit Amil. That's why I believe in Amil. If I thought there was even one verse that contradicted Amil I would not believe in Amil.

As a matter of fact, I have already done that in the past. And so have others. Take the GWTJ, for instance. There is no way, since it would be totally unfair of God, to rush that judgment and have it begin and conclude within 24 hours or less.
See, this is what you do. You misrepresent what we believe and then think that what we believe can't be true just because of you not understanding what we actually believe. Who said that the judgment itself will take 24 hours or less? What we claim is that the judgment commences on the day Christ returns, but who knows how long it will last? It doesn't say. Amils believe that eternity will be ushered in at that point, so time won't even be a factor at that time, anyway. So, it doesn't even matter how long it takes from our current perspective.

Billions and billions of ppl are going to stand before Him one at a time and give an account of themselves, and that this is only going to take 24 hours or less?
No one has said that. You waste so much time making straw man arguments. Honestly, I feel sorry for you because of that. If only you could have all the time back that you've wasted making these kinds of pointless straw man arguments, you might be able to add years back to your life.

That is plain silly.
You thinking that is what we believe is plain silly.

Assuming the GWTJ did happen in the last day of this age, until that judgment is over it is still the last day of this age in the meantime. And if it involves more than 24 hours, so much for the last day of this age only involving 24 hours or less. But if this judgment is outside of time, how then can it happen in the last day, a day that is not outside of time yet?
So sad. How much time did you spend creating this post? It was a complete waste of your time.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Peter was likening the miracle of people there being understood by each other, even though their native language was different, to what Joel said would happen in the last days when God would pour out His Spirit on all flesh.
What?! You're acting as if what Peter said in relation to what was happening on the day of Pentecost was "This is LIKE what was spoken by the prophet Joel, but is not what Joel was actually talking about.". But, instead, Peter said "This IS what was spoken by the prophet Joel". It's shameful how you try to twist scripture to fit your doctrine.

Do read anything in Act 2 of anyone prophesying? How about signs in heaven? How about the sun turned to darkness? And the moon into blood?
Why did you not mention anything about the Holy Spirit being poured out on people which obviously did happen on the day of Pentecost and continued to happen after that, as evidenced by what happened to Cornelius and other Gentiles after that when they had the Holy Spirit poured out on them (see Acts 10).

Why did you ask about Acts 2 saying something about signs in heaven when it mentions "signs on the earth below"?

Acts 2:19 I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke.

Have you never read all of Acts 2, Doug? If you have, you seem to have forgotten about this passage:

Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles.

There's the wonders and signs that Peter talked about.

What about this verse:

Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

There were 3,000 people saved that day. Clearly, this verse applies to the people who were saved that day and to everyone who has been saved ever since. The last days clearly refer to the days during which everyone who calls on the name of the Lord is saved, so the last days refers to the time period between the first and second coming of Christ.

Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Clearly, the last days had already begun before the book of Hebrews was written.

All of those things are found in the passage of Joel that Peter quoted to them.

The point Peter was making it was the Holy Spirit being active among them, to make it possible for the miracle of understanding each other to happen, like it will be in the last days, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven.
That is nonsense. You are trying to make the passage say what you want it to say instead of accepting what it actually says. Again, Peter said "This IS what was spoken by the prophet Joel", not "This is LIKE what was spoken by the prophet Joel". You can't get around that no matter how hard you try to twist that passage to mean what you want it to mean.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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You might interpret this to mean that I'm trying to shift the focus on you, except that is not what I'm doing.
I'm trying to talk about what time period "the last days" represents, so it sure seems like you're trying to divert attention away from that because of how you interpret Isaiah 2. So, do you agree that "the last days" refers to the time period between the first and second coming of Christ or not?

I'm simply illustrating a point, is all. Do you then agree that the last days mentioned in Ezekiel 38 apply to the same time period as the passages you brought up, or am I instead supposed to believe, based on what you are arguing, that there can be no more last days after the last days when your interpretation of Ezekiel 38 alone would be indicating there can be if the last days mentioned in Ezekiel 38 are meaning thousands of years prior to the last days meant in Isaiah 2? Last days have to have a last day otherwise they are not last days. How can last days not have a last day? Amils argue, and maybe even rightfully so, that after the last day of the last days there can then no longer be anymore last days, and then some of these same Amils contradict that argument via their interpretation of Ezekiel 38 and those last days.

Explain exactly how then, assuming you interpret Ezekiel 38 to involve last days not involving the last days recorded in the NT nor Isaiah 2, that what you said about me that it doesn't equally apply to you as well, meaning this---"How convenient for you to interpret "the last days" in that passage as referring to a different time period than "the last days" of the other passages that refer to the last days".
Let me make myself clear. I believe all the references to "the last days" refer to the same time period. Let me know if you think I'm not being clear. As to Ezekiel 38, I've already told you before that I'm not sure how to interpret that passage. But, I know that it doesn't contradict other more clear passages no matter what. The bottom line to me is that my doctrine is established on clear and straightforward passages of scripture and yours is not. Anyone who thinks that Revelation 20, Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 38 are clear and straightforward passages is fooling himself or herself.

Micah 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

This right here appears to be meaning during the time when nation shall not lift up sword against nation. What in the here and now, in any sense, could possibly fit with what is described here? It says none shall make them afraid. One is to believe, for example, that if one was in the vicinity of a raging bear lunging towards them, that this wouldn't strike fear in anyone described in verse 4 since none shall make them afraid? What period of time verse 4 seems to be describing is the same period of time Isaiah 65 involving the NHNE is describing.
As you know, that verse applies to "the last days". Why are you contradicting yourself? I thought you said there can't be more than one "last days" and I thought you agreed that the last days lead up to the second coming of Christ? But, now you're extending the last days past the second coming of Christ. Even though in 2 Peter 3:3-4 it says the last days are the days when scoffers scoff at the idea of Christ's second coming. Obviously, there won't be scoffers scoffing at His second coming after His second coming occurs, so the last days can't apply to a time period after His second coming.

IOW, a raging bear lunging towards you is not a possibility at that time, yet in this age we are currently in, it is. Anyone in their right mind would be afraid if a raging bear was lunging toward them, and not unafraid instead. Are you going to apply verse 4 spiritually then? Even if you do, a raging bear lunging towards you is still going to make anyone in their right mind afraid. To insist otherwise is total nonsense.
This is your problem. You are once again taking a verse literally that isn't meant to be taken literally. That is your whole problem. You are unable to discern what is figurative and what is literal.

Do you take the following passage to be referring to literally all people?

Acts 2:16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 “‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

Obviously, God never has and will never pour out His Spirit in literally all people, right? So, we know that we can't take this to be saying that God will pour out His Spirit in literally all people and we know it actually is referring only to believers receiving His Spirit. I'm going to assume you agree with me on this. So, assuming that is the case, why would you want to interpret those other passages so literally when you know that is not the way to interpret this passage?

Like Acts 2:17 (Joel 2:28) the context of Micah 4:4 relates only to believers. Notice the very next verse.

Micah 4:4 Everyone will sit under their own vine and under their own fig tree, and no one will make them afraid, for the Lord Almighty has spoken. 5 All the nations may walk in the name of their gods,
but we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever.

See how verse 5 contrasts those who follow after false gods with those who follow after "the Lord our God"? Verse 4 is not speaking of literally everyone, as you might think if you didn't have any spiritual discernment and didn't look at the context, but instead is speaking of all believers. We Christians have nothing to fear, including a raging bear coming at us, because we have the hope of eternal life. Even if a bear killed us, our souls would go to a better place (heaven, obviously), so that isn't anything to fear.

Now, if a bear actually attacked us we would be fearful at that time just because that would be the natural reaction for anyone. But, we would not be fearing for our eternal destinies. And that is what Micah 4:4 is about. It's not talking about literally never being afraid of anything. It's talking about having no fear of God's wrath and no fear of what will happen to us when we die.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You might interpret this to mean that I'm trying to shift the focus on you, except that is not what I'm doing. I'm simply illustrating a point, is all. Do you then agree that the last days mentioned in Ezekiel 38 apply to the same time period as the passages you brought up, or am I instead supposed to believe, based on what you are arguing, that there can be no more last days after the last days when your interpretation of Ezekiel 38 alone would be indicating there can be if the last days mentioned in Ezekiel 38 are meaning thousands of years prior to the last days meant in Isaiah 2? Last days have to have a last day otherwise they are not last days. How can last days not have a last day? Amils argue, and maybe even rightfully so, that after the last day of the last days there can then no longer be anymore last days, and then some of these same Amils contradict that argument via their interpretation of Ezekiel 38 and those last days.

Explain exactly how then, assuming you interpret Ezekiel 38 to involve last days not involving the last days recorded in the NT nor Isaiah 2, that what you said about me that it doesn't equally apply to you as well, meaning this---"How convenient for you to interpret "the last days" in that passage as referring to a different time period than "the last days" of the other passages that refer to the last days".


Micah 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.


This right here appears to be meaning during the time when nation shall not lift up sword against nation. What in the here and now, in any sense, could possibly fit with what is described here? It says none shall make them afraid. One is to believe, for example, that if one was in the vicinity of a raging bear lunging towards them, that this wouldn't strike fear in anyone described in verse 4 since none shall make them afraid? What period of time verse 4 seems to be describing is the same period of time Isaiah 65 involving the NHNE is describing. IOW, a raging bear lunging towards you is not a possibility at that time, yet in this age we are currently in, it is. Anyone in their right mind would be afraid if a raging bear was lunging toward them, and not unafraid instead. Are you going to apply verse 4 spiritually then? Even if you do, a raging bear lunging towards you is still going to make anyone in their right mind afraid. To insist otherwise is total nonsense.

Do you even step back to think how absurd this all sounds? You deem your so-called future millennium as "the last days" and also (at the same time) "the NHNE." In doing this you totally negate the current last days and the future NHNE. You render names and descriptions meaningless. You are all over the place. There is no sense of timing or distinct meaning with your location of the millennium. You wing it and force it somewhere it doesn't belong. No wonder you admit you have no assurance as to the veracity of your beliefs.

Amils place the last days where Scripture locates them (in between the 2 Advents) and the NHNE where Scripture locates them (in eternity when corruption is finally completely lifted), yet you castigate them for it.
 
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TribulationSigns

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The world saying peace and safety will be after God destroys Gog and allies' attack on Israel. And in the aftermath, the little horn prince who shall come into the middle east will be perceived by the Jews as the messiah. And a false perceived messianic age begun. That is why the world will be saying peace and safety at the time.

another example of private interpretation with speculations.
 
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DavidPT

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Hello! It is talking about within the kingdom of God (the mountain of the Lord). Please note the context before posting.


Of course that is what the context is involving. Are you then suggesting that post the 2nd coming nothing any longer involves the kingdom of God? Per your view of things, are there any nations outside of new Jerusalem during the NHNE? If Christ is physically present on earth during the NHNE, where do you envision Him to be physically present at? Every single place on earth at the same time, or in a specific region in the earth? Christ is never depicted as being physically everywhere at the same time. Even after He had resurrected, He was still being depicted as being physically present in one place at a time. Christ is physically present in heaven now. He is not also physically present on earth as well. Keep in mind, I'm meaning physically, not spiritually. One point being, the text in Isaiah 2 says this--And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Since He has to have a place to dwell once He returns, why can't this passage apply after He has returned? Which is a more likely scenario? Once He returns He will physically dwell in Jerusalem in the Middle East. Once He returns He will physically dwell somewhere in the USA instead, or maybe somewhere in Mexico? So on and so on.
 
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