Now they're taking down statues of Thomas Jefferson

Danthemailman said:

These people are anti-American radicals who want to over throw America and they are exploiting every means necessary in order to justify their UN-patriotic mission!

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To contaminate our precious bodily fluids!

98cwitr said:

Yes, there are calls for that too

The Old Colossus: A case for the removal of the Statue of Liberty - The McGill Tribune

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I do remember someone putting forward a case for changing the reasons for it's actually being there and altering the poem at it's base: 'Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...'

'Ken Cuccinelli, acting director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (Trump's top immigration official), was asked if Lazarus’s poem, “The New Colossus,” remains “part of the American ethos.” To which Cuccinelli offered some suggested edits inspired by the executive branch’s take on who should or shouldn’t be allowed to live in the United States. “They certainly are,” Cuccinelli said. “Give me your tired and your poor—who can stand on their own two feet and who will not become a public charge.” ' Trump Official Wants Statue of Liberty to Reflect Trump’s “No Poors” Policy

98cwitr said:

Yes, there are calls for that too

The Old Colossus: A case for the removal of the Statue of Liberty - The McGill Tribune

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Hang on...you were being serious? You didn't know that article was satirical? It's kinda frustrating that a student can make fun of the right and they don't get the joke.

How is it that so many people link to articles thinking it supports the point they are trying to make and it's obvious that they haven't read it?

Bradskii said:

Hang on...you were being serious? You didn't know that article was satirical? It's kinda frustrating that a student can make fun of the right and they don't get the joke.

How is it that so many people link to articles thinking it supports the point they are trying to make and it's obvious that they haven't read it?

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If the past 3 years taught me anything, it's that satire can become reality VERY quickly

I predicted this when the confederate statues started being pulled down. George Washington will be next. The state I live in will be renamed. They got smart with King County where Seattle is located, by attributing it to Martin Luther King.



I suppose they can do that with Washington state too, by saying it's named after Booker T. Washington. They'll have to charge the state flag though.

Bradskii said:

I do remember someone putting forward a case for changing the reasons for it's actually being there and altering the poem at it's base: 'Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...'

'Ken Cuccinelli, acting director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (Trump's top immigration official), was asked if Lazarus’s poem, “The New Colossus,” remains “part of the American ethos.” To which Cuccinelli offered some suggested edits inspired by the executive branch’s take on who should or shouldn’t be allowed to live in the United States. “They certainly are,” Cuccinelli said. “Give me your tired and your poor—who can stand on their own two feet and who will not become a public charge.” ' Trump Official Wants Statue of Liberty to Reflect Trump’s “No Poors” Policy

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Right...finishing the statement for full context: "yearning to breath free"

To be free, you must also respect the freedom of others.

bekkilyn said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tue-removed-after-commission-vote/8529649002/

You know that guy who drafted the American Declaration of Independence as part of the Continental Congress, our first Secretary of State as a new nation, and third President of the U.S. I wonder what or who is next in this huge push to tear apart the very foundations of this country and Democracy itself.

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I know this removing statues frustrates a lot of folks. For myself, I'm not sure. In general, I think making statues of people is an odd thing to do unless it is art, which is pretty much how I view all statues, i.e. as art.

What do these statues represent: the person, ideas, or both? I can't tell. I question the intuition that removing a statue of a founder of this country is a threat to the foundations of this country. There seems to be two primary reasons people want to remove a statue. 1.The life of the person represented by the statue does not sufficiently represent the ideas associated with that person (e.g. Jefferson). 2.The ideas the person represents are not worthy of a statue representing that person (e.g. Confederate generals). Assuming these are the motives for removing statues, then the intention is to support good ideas by removing insufficient representations or removing representations that are contrary to good ideas associated with this Democracy. In other words, it's bad art.

It is true that all people are fallible and therefore subject to critique when compared with the ideas they are associated. Perhaps we should not create statues of specific individuals in hopes of representing democratic ideas. Individuals will always fall short of the idea. Groups of people, by contrast, are precisely what make democracies work, i.e. groups of individuals working together for the common will and good. Well done statues, i.e. works of art, don't have to be specific to a historical individual. The need only represent the idea. That is art.

I say we should remove all bad art, or at least put it in museums with other pieces of bad art.

98cwitr said:

If the past 3 years taught me anything, it's that satire can become reality VERY quickly

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So you hadn't read it. Can I ask why not? It seems to me that if one is going to offer an argument based on what someone else has written, then it is blazingly obvious that one should read it first.

It happens quite a lot. And invariably by those arguing from a position on the right. It does nothing for their credibility I must say.

Mark Quayle said:

I'm not going to be very surprised if Mount Rushmore gets refaced.

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We can only hope. The deification of presidents is silly.

I cant really blame people for not wanting to see, in the public square everyday, a guy who thought you are fit to be my slave.

bekkilyn said:

You know that guy who drafted the American Declaration of Independence as part of the Continental Congress, our first Secretary of State as a new nation, and third President of the U.S. I wonder what or who is next in this huge push to tear apart the very foundations of this country and Democracy itself.

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This is a tough one. Sure Jefferson was amazingly intelligent and a man beyond his time and he wrote some great stuff about equality and independence. But he did still own slaves and even had relations with one of his owned humans.

It's a tough call. Maybe if we stopped created these golden gods and noted that sometimes we have a lot of clay feet. We could honor people for what they did but we can also be mindful of the evil they promulgated as well.

Mark Quayle said:

I'm not going to be very surprised if Mount Rushmore gets refaced.

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I like to imagine someone from another civilization coming into a famous Cathedral like Notre Dame or Rouen and carving a giant statue of their "god" out of the stone of the Cathedral. I am guessing that a lot of Christians would be pretty upset. Now imagine if Native Americans were really human and could have human feelings just like us and they had to watch some white dude come into their holy land and blast giant images of other white dudes on the stolen land.

Tanj said:

and slave owner.

More broadly, what is this obsession with founding fathers. It feels quite unwholesome to me

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You think THAT's bad...you should see what our Founding Fathers are doing in heaven!

When it comes to this sort of thing the question is always "what's next?" And really I think if they're going to take down a statue, they should replace it with something similar. Maybe replace General Lee on a horse with Wonder Woman on a horse.

Bradskii said:

So you hadn't read it. Can I ask why not? It seems to me that if one is going to offer an argument based on what someone else has written, then it is blazingly obvious that one should read it first.

It happens quite a lot. And invariably by those arguing from a position on the right. It does nothing for their credibility I must say.

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I read it...and didn't read the satire you saw. My comment however, assumed that I missed the mark, and that you were indeed correct.

bekkilyn said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tue-removed-after-commission-vote/8529649002/

You know that guy who drafted the American Declaration of Independence as part of the Continental Congress, our first Secretary of State as a new nation, and third President of the U.S. I wonder what or who is next in this huge push to tear apart the very foundations of this country and Democracy itself.

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I fail to see how moving a statue will “tear apart the very foundations of this country and Democracy itself.”

comana said:

I fail to see how moving a statue will “tear apart the very foundations of this country and Democracy itself.”

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Makes as much sense as taking down a monument being equated with the person it depicted being erased from history.

MMXX said:

When it comes to this sort of thing the question is always "what's next?" And really I think if they're going to take down a statue, they should replace it with something similar. Maybe replace General Lee on a horse with Wonder Woman on a horse.

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Given that more Americans understand the MCU better than they understand their own country that's actually not a bad idea at all!

Desk trauma said:

Makes as much sense as taking down a monument being equated with the person it depicted being erased from history.

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Seeing statues in public places makes people inquisitive, aids in inspiring research and education. We have to ask: "What purpose does a statue serve?" And the root word of "memorialized" is "memory." Removing a statue aids in the removal of memory. That which is not seen cannot be questioned.

98cwitr said:

We said this would happen. Knew it would as soon as Antifa started defacing statues of Grant and Lincoln. It was never about the CSA or Civil War...it was always about dismantling America and her core.

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By moving this statue back to it’s original place?