Roman Catholic teachings denounced by Orthodox groups?

bbbbbbb · Oct 19, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I already gave you examples and there are thousands who came to be an Adventist that never knew about Ellen White before coming up with the same conclusions.

You could pretend to know what 20 million people think, but only God is all knowing so its best to leave it there.

Okay. We know that you did not reach the understanding of SDA doctrine simply by reading and studying the Bible. That answers my question. I am quite unconcerned about the other members of your denomination. However, out of general curiosity how many individuals do you personally know who independently read and studied the Bible and developed a clear grasp of SDA doctrines prior to joining the SDA?

BobRyan · Oct 20, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
This is incorrect, Ellen White helped form the SDA church and the teachings come directly from scripture. Ellen White also tells us all teachings must be tested by scripture.

yes - 100% correct.

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

Do you gather with other Christians to break bread on Sunday as Paul did in Acts?

SabbathBlessings said:
This is your opinion, not theirs. Again, the quotes speak for themselves. Furthermore, it can be confirmed in scriptures.

It’s not what the Roman Catholic Church thinks of SDA’s

The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.
—The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

I disagree with the statement that Jesus Christ gave them the authority when we have these really clear scriptures. Isaiah 8:20, John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32 Proverbs 30:5,6, Psalm 89:34, Matthew 5:17-19, Matthew 15:3-9

BobRyan · Oct 20, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Martin Luther:

I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also.
—MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist, pages 71, 72.

and

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
—D.L. MOODY, Weighed and Wanting, page 47.

and

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

Amen! And there is waayyy more than that available, affirming all TEN of the TEN commandments as we find with C.H. Spurgeon, the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19, the Catholic Catechism, Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II - the list is very long for that.

In fact Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations affirm it.

as for this:

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
—D.L. MOODY, Weighed and Wanting, page 47.

You can also find it in the text of his online sermon on "The Ten Commandments", The "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 also affirms that same point as we see D.L. Moody affirming.

BobRyan · Oct 20, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
Do you gather with other Christians to break bread on Sunday as Paul did in Acts?

Paul did it once. I too have done that once.

But he was in worship service "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 preaching the Gospel to both gentiles and Jews according to the Bible. I too attend worship service "every Sabbath" to hear gospel preaching to gentiles.

As for the OP - I am not aware that the Orthodox church condemns the Sabbath commandment as part of their liturgy for accepting someone into the Orthodox church.

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

BobRyan said:
Paul did it once. I too have done that once.

You ought to do it every Sunday since that is the day the Jewish believers gathered to celebrate the Lord's Supper (they didn't do it in the Synagogue).

SabbathBlessings · Oct 20, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
Do you gather with other Christians to break bread on Sunday as Paul did in Acts?

The disciples broke break everyday so what's your point? Acts 2:46

Not sure the point you are trying to make but if you are looking to see what traditions the disciples kept, well they obeyed the commandments of God 1 Cor. 7:19, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 2:3-6,Mark 7:6-9, Romans 7:22.

The apostles went to the Temples preaching the Word of God on the seventh day Sabbath as did Jesus for our example. Luke 4:16, Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44, Acts 15:21, Acts 17:2, Acts 18:4

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

My point is: You commune on Saturday or do you commune at all?

SabbathBlessings said:
The disciples broke break everyday so what's your point? Acts 2:46

Not sure the point you are trying to make but if you are looking to see what traditions the disciples kept, well they obeyed the commandments of God 1 Cor. 7:19, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 2:3-6,Mark 7:6-9, Romans 7:22.

The apostles went to the Temples preaching the Word of God on the seventh day Sabbath as did Jesus for our example. Luke 4:16, Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44, Acts 15:21, Acts 17:2, Acts 18:4

SabbathBlessings · Oct 20, 2021

BobRyan said:
Creative writing? I never said Luther did not attend Sunday services.

He was coming around. His story is pretty interesting.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 20, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
You're the one who quote mined Luther, not me

As I stated he was coming around and Luthers quote speaks for itself.

That said do we worship and follow man-made traditions or commandments of God? Jesus answers this question for us so we don’t need to guess. Matthew 15:3-9.

I am off for now but will be back later

God bless!

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

Because we were kicked out of the synagogue.

BobRyan said:
Creative writing? I never said Luther did not attend Sunday services.

Even so - he did also say this

================

“God blessed the Sabbath and sanctified it to Himself. It is moreover to be remarked that God did this to no other creature. God did not sanctify to Himself the heaven nor the earth nor any other creature. But God did sanctify to Himself the seventh day. This was especially designed of God, to cause us to understand that the ‘seventh day’ is to be especially devoted to divine worship….

It follows therefore from this passage, that if Adam had stood in his innocence and had not fallen he would yet have observed the ‘seventh day’ as sanctified, holy and sacred…. Nay, even after the fall he held the ‘seventh day’ sacred; that is, he taught on that day his own family. This is testified by the offerings made by his two sons, Cain and Abel. The Sabbath therefore has, from the beginning of the world, been set apart for the worship of God…. For all these things are implied and signified in the expression ‘sanctified.’

Although therefore man lost the knowledge of God by sin, yet God willed that this command concerning the sanctifying of the Sabbath should remain. He willed that on the seventh day both the word should be preached, and also those other parts of His worship performed which He Himself instituted.”

Martin Luther, The Creation, A Commentary on Genesis,” Vol. I, pp. 138-140,

================

We could "suppose" that Luther believed that at some point Sabbath was changed from the 7th day to week-day-1

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

What is your point?

BobRyan said:
Creative writing? I never said Luther did not attend Sunday services.

Even so - he did also say this

================

“God blessed the Sabbath and sanctified it to Himself. It is moreover to be remarked that God did this to no other creature. God did not sanctify to Himself the heaven nor the earth nor any other creature. But God did sanctify to Himself the seventh day. This was especially designed of God, to cause us to understand that the ‘seventh day’ is to be especially devoted to divine worship….

It follows therefore from this passage, that if Adam had stood in his innocence and had not fallen he would yet have observed the ‘seventh day’ as sanctified, holy and sacred…. Nay, even after the fall he held the ‘seventh day’ sacred; that is, he taught on that day his own family. This is testified by the offerings made by his two sons, Cain and Abel. The Sabbath therefore has, from the beginning of the world, been set apart for the worship of God…. For all these things are implied and signified in the expression ‘sanctified.’

Although therefore man lost the knowledge of God by sin, yet God willed that this command concerning the sanctifying of the Sabbath should remain. He willed that on the seventh day both the word should be preached, and also those other parts of His worship performed which He Himself instituted.”

Martin Luther, The Creation, A Commentary on Genesis,” Vol. I, pp. 138-140,

================

We could "suppose" that Luther believed that at some point Sabbath was changed from the 7th day to week-day-1

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
The disciples broke break everyday so what's your point? Acts 2:46

Do you break bread everyday?
Btw, Mass is a regular everyday occurrence.
Do you break bread on Saturday as opposed to Sunday?

tampasteve · Oct 20, 2021

Luther, Moody, Spurgeon, et al, are or were Sunday worshipers. You cannot just take a quote from them about the "Sabbath" and use it to mean Saturday Sabbath - it does not mean that and it is deceptive to try and take it out of context to mean that.

Many Protestants currently observe a Sabbath rest on Sunday and believe in a Sabbath Rest, but they do not believe it is restricted to a Saturday observance.

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

Speaking as a former Catholic, I could attend Mass on Saturday and it would still fulfill my Sunday Obligation.

tampasteve said:
Luther, Moody, Spurgeon, et al, are or were Sunday worshipers. You cannot just take a quote from them about the "Sabbath" and use it to mean Saturday Sabbath - it does not mean that and it is deceptive to try and take it out of context to mean that.

Many Protestants currently observe a Sabbath rest on Sunday and believe in a Sabbath Rest, but they do not believe it is restricted to a Saturday observance.

tampasteve · Oct 20, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
Speaking as a former Catholic, I could attend Mass on Saturday and it would still fulfill my Sunday Obligation.

As a former Catholic myself as well, kind of....it would have to be the Saturday Vigil mass to fulfil the Sunday obligation. That actually dove tails nicely into the Jewish custom of the day beginning the evening the day before (sunset to sunset).

Thatgirloncfforums · Oct 20, 2021

Ah yes, thank you for the correction.

tampasteve said:
As a former Catholic myself as well, kind of....it would have to be the Saturday Vigil mass to fulfil the Sunday obligation. That actually dove tails nicely into the Jewish custom of the day beginning the evening the day before (sunset to sunset).

SabbathBlessings · Oct 20, 2021

tampasteve said:
Luther, Moody, Spurgeon, et al, are or were Sunday worshipers. You cannot just take a quote from them about the "Sabbath" and use it to mean Saturday Sabbath - it does not mean that and it is deceptive to try and take it out of context to mean that.

Many Protestants currently observe a Sabbath rest on Sunday and believe in a Sabbath Rest, but they do not believe it is restricted to a Saturday observance.

Are you implying they were not smart enough to understand the difference between the seventh day Sabbath that is a commandment of God and the Holy day of the Lord thy God Genesis 2:1-3 Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 and the first day that Jesus rose? I prefer to give them much more credit.

I’ll say it again The statements speak for themselves.

At the end of the day God is our authority though and not man

SabbathBlessings · Oct 20, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
Do you break bread everyday?
Btw, Mass is a regular everyday occurrence.
Do you break bread on Saturday as opposed to Sunday?

None of those are commandments of God, you are reading into scripture to say something you want it to say.

Paul tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 but more importantly it is what Jesus tells us. John 14:15, John 15:10.

I really must get going will finish later this evening. God bless all.

tampasteve · Oct 20, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Are you implying they were not smart enough to understand the difference between the seventh day Sabbath that is a commandment of God and the Holy day of the Lord thy God Genesis 2:1-3 Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 and the first day that Jesus rose? I prefer to give them much more credit.

I’ll say it again The statements speak for themselves.

At the end of the day God is our authority though and not man

I am certainly not implying that.

Are you implying that statements and quotes from these titans of Theology and the Reformation meant to keep a 7th day Sabbath, statements from men that did not keep the 7th day Sabbath?

It would be odd that they meant that when they did not do so themselves; that is why the statements are being taken out of context if they are being used to imply they supported a 7th day Sabbath. I think their statements mean that we should keep the Sabbath, which is what they are saying, but they also understood we were not obligated to keep the 7th day as defined by Jewish belief and Sabbatarians. They knew of Sabbatarianism yet chose to not observe a 7th day Sabbath.

Roman Catholic teachings denounced by Orthodox groups?

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