Vaccine Mandates - A Fusion of Government Power and Corporate Interests

JustSomeBloke · Oct 19, 2021

I briefly raised this topic in a previous thread, but I thought that it was worth creating a new thread, so that the nature of vaccine mandates can be properly explored.

Benito Mussolini reportedly wrote:

"If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government. But not a government of, by, and for We The People; instead, it would be a government of, by, and for the most powerful corporate interests in the nation."

Isn't that exactly what we are seeing right now, with governments forcing vaccine mandates on entire populations?

Let's consider the United States, where the pharmaceuticals industry is said to be the most powerful lobby group. What we are seeing right now is a fusion of state power and corporate interests, in the use of vaccine mandates to trample on classical liberalism. Instead of individualism, we now have the power of the state being used to force a form of collectivism, where nobody has any individual rights, not even the right to bodily autonomy.

How is this not Fascism? It certainly appears to perfectly fit Benito Mussolini's description of what a Fascist government looks like.

pdudgeon · Oct 19, 2021

I agree with what you have said here.
What also scares me is where in all of this confusion are the Labor unions? They should be supporting an employee's right to work, but I haven't heard a peep from them!

A_Thinker · Oct 19, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I briefly raised this topic in a previous thread, but I thought that it was worth creating a new thread, so that the nature of vaccine mandates can be properly explored.

Benito Mussolini reportedly wrote:

"If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government. But not a government of, by, and for We The People; instead, it would be a government of, by, and for the most powerful corporate interests in the nation."

Isn't that exactly what we are seeing right now, with governments forcing vaccine mandates on entire populations?

Let's consider the United States, where the pharmaceuticals industry is said to be the most powerful lobby group. What we are seeing right now is a fusion of state power and corporate interests, in the use of vaccine mandates to trample on classical liberalism. Instead of individualism, we now have the power of the state being used to force a form of collectivism, where nobody has any individual rights, not even the right to bodily autonomy.

How is this not Fascism? It certainly appears to perfectly fit Benito Mussolini's description of what a Fascist government looks like.

Is it possible for you to understand that we are fighting a pandemic ? That people are dying ... to-date, almost 750,000 Americans ?

Does that make any difference to you at all ?

In all of human history, no government has used the advent of a disease to impose totalitarianism. Totalitarianism needs no vehicle ... those who would impose it will do so at their whim ...

The Transcendentian · Oct 19, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I briefly raised this topic in a previous thread, but I thought that it was worth creating a new thread, so that the nature of vaccine mandates can be properly explored.

Benito Mussolini reportedly wrote:

"If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government. But not a government of, by, and for We The People; instead, it would be a government of, by, and for the most powerful corporate interests in the nation."

Isn't that exactly what we are seeing right now, with governments forcing vaccine mandates on entire populations?

Let's consider the United States, where the pharmaceuticals industry is said to be the most powerful lobby group. What we are seeing right now is a fusion of state power and corporate interests, in the use of vaccine mandates to trample on classical liberalism. Instead of individualism, we now have the power of the state being used to force a form of collectivism, where nobody has any individual rights, not even the right to bodily autonomy.

How is this not Fascism? It certainly appears to perfectly fit Benito Mussolini's description of what a Fascist government looks like.

IF that's the true definition of fascism then America is VERY fascist, and has been for quite some time now.

The Transcendentian · Oct 19, 2021

A_Thinker said:
Is it possible for you to understand that we are fighting a pandemic ?

Does that make any difference to you at all ?

In all of human history, no government has used the advent of a disease to impose totalitarianism. Totalitarianism needs no vehicle ... those who would impose it will do so at their whim ...

Totalitarianism might not NEED a vehicle but that doesn't mean it won't get one.

No government has used disease as an excuse for power grab....
Let's wait this one out and see how well that statement ages....

Occams Barber · Oct 19, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I briefly raised this topic in a previous thread, but I thought that it was worth creating a new thread, so that the nature of vaccine mandates can be properly explored.

Benito Mussolini reportedly wrote:

"If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government. But not a government of, by, and for We The People; instead, it would be a government of, by, and for the most powerful corporate interests in the nation."

Isn't that exactly what we are seeing right now, with governments forcing vaccine mandates on entire populations?

Let's consider the United States, where the pharmaceuticals industry is said to be the most powerful lobby group. What we are seeing right now is a fusion of state power and corporate interests, in the use of vaccine mandates to trample on classical liberalism. Instead of individualism, we now have the power of the state being used to force a form of collectivism, where nobody has any individual rights, not even the right to bodily autonomy.

How is this not Fascism? It certainly appears to perfectly fit Benito Mussolini's description of what a Fascist government looks like.

There are a few hurdles you need to jump before we could accept your declaration of a Fascist plot.

Vaccine mandates are not new. This article from Pew explains a little of the history and extent of past(and present) US vaccine mandates.

Long before COVID-19, states have been mandating vaccinations | Pew Research Cente
Here's another: The U.S. Has A Long Precedent For Vaccine Mandates : NPR

You need to explain how the state gains 'power' from imposing a mandate

Since vaccine mandates attract strong opposition, imposing a mandate is politically detrimental move. Why would a political party do this?

Mandates are being applied all over the world. Are you suggesting a global conspiracy?

OB

JustSomeBloke · Oct 19, 2021

A_Thinker said:
Is it possible for you to understand that we are fighting a pandemic ?

Does that make any difference to you at all ?

It looks like it's time for this quote again.

quote-of-all-tyrannies-a-tyranny-sincerely-exercised-for-the-good-of-its-victims-may-be-the-most-c-s-lewis-284427.jpg

A_Thinker said:
In all of human history, no government has used the advent of a disease to impose totalitarianism. Totalitarianism needs no vehicle ... those who would impose it will do so at their whim ...

I never used the word Totalitarianism in my OP. I said Fascism. And I quoted Benito Mussolini's description of Fascist governance.

And if you look at the history of 1930s Fascist Germany, public health was used to oppress Jewish communities, same as the unvaccinated are being oppressed right now.

The Transcendentian said:
IF that's the true definition of fascism then America is VERY fascist, and has been for quite some time now.

What examples can you offer of a fusion of government power and corporate interests resulting in the destruction of individual bodily autonomy?

Occams Barber said:
You need to explain how the state gains 'power' from imposing a mandate

You need to explain how stopping people from working is not a massive power grab? How can people house, feed and clothe themselves and their families without a job? Are you suggesting that homelessness and starvation is a realistic option?

Occams Barber said:
Since vaccine mandates attract strong opposition, imposing a mandate is politically detrimental move. Why would a political party do this?

Because they are corrupt, corporate puppets.

Occams Barber said:
Mandates are being applied all over the world. Are you suggesting a global conspiracy?

It certainly looks like a global conspiracy.

If you want to understand this, the usual rules apply. Just follow the money. Look at who has been making massive donations, and buying influence and policy decisions.

dogs4thewin · Oct 19, 2021

pdudgeon said:
I agree with what you have said here.
What also scares me is where in all of this confusion are the Labor unions? They should be supporting an employee's right to work, but I haven't heard a peep from them!

An employee has the right to work the employer in some cases the government such as state or federal employees has the right to set certain conditions on that employment. Unions in some places have tried, but really if the union walks out to protest the mandate what is the difference if they will be fired any now. Remember like I said in the other thread most of those employees will not qualify for unemployment either way whether they quit or .are fired.

Sparagmos · Oct 19, 2021

pdudgeon said:
I agree with what you have said here.
What also scares me is where in all of this confusion are the Labor unions? They should be supporting an employee's right to work, but I haven't heard a peep from them!

The members of my union overwhelmingly support vaccine mandates. It’s a workplace safety issue.

Sparagmos · Oct 19, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
What examples can you offer of a fusion of government power and corporate interests resulting in the destruction of individual bodily autonomy?

‘the destruction of individual bodily autonomy" is not part of the definition of fascism or a requirement of fascism. You just added that.

JustSomeBloke said:
You need to explain how stopping people from working is not a massive power grab? How can people house, feed and clothe themselves and their families without a job? Are you suggesting that homelessness and starvation is a realistic option?

. First, there are plenty of other jobs right now and the few people who have lost their jobs are unlikely to become homeless.

Second, are you claiming that anything which causes homelessness belies a grab for power? Like the two are automatically linked?

Third, what power is gained by creating more homelessness and, more importantly, who gains it? Be specific.

JustSomeBloke said:
Because they are corrupt, corporate puppets.

. That doesn’t answer the question. What do they have to gain by doing politically unpopular things?

JustSomeBloke said:
It certainly looks like a global conspiracy.

. Of whom? Name names. And a conspiracy to do what specifically? All of this vague talk of power grabs isn’t compelling at all. What’s the end game of these conspiracists?

Tanj · Oct 19, 2021

Sparagmos said:
‘the destruction of individual bodily autonomy" is not part of the definition of fascism or a requirement of fascism. You just added that.

Although it is for communism, at least when it comes to precious bodily fluids.

Sparagmos · Oct 19, 2021

Tanj said:
Although it is for communism, at least when it comes to precious bodily fluids.

Wow, really? Huh.

Tanj · Oct 19, 2021

Sparagmos said:
Wow, really? Huh.

Not sure if serious, so...

Bradskii · Oct 19, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
It certainly looks like a global conspiracy.

I hope everyone took my advice a year ago and bought shares in Alcoa. They've gone up 500% in 12 months. Coincidence? I think not!

Occams Barber · Oct 19, 2021

Occams Barber said:
Vaccine mandates are not new. This article from Pew explains a little of the history and extent of past(and present) US vaccine mandates.

Long before COVID-19, states have been mandating vaccinations | Pew Research Cente
Here's another: The U.S. Has A Long Precedent For Vaccine Mandates : NPR

You seem to have missed this point. Vaccine mandates are not new.

JustSomeBloke said:
You need to explain how stopping people from working is not a massive power grab? How can people house, feed and clothe themselves and their families without a job? Are you suggesting that homelessness and starvation is a realistic option?

How is "homelessness and starvation a "power grab". If (a big 'if') you had homelessness and starvation the results would be reduced Govt services (less tax to fund govt services), social unrest and huge corporate losses due to reduced consumerism. If vaccine mandates resulted in massive "homelessness and starvation" nobody would win. But, since they don't result in massive homelessness and starvation, we don't need to worry.

JustSomeBloke said:
Because they are corrupt, corporate puppets.

This is just another wild, and unsubstantiated, opinion.

JustSomeBloke said:
It certainly looks like a global conspiracy.

If you want to understand this, the usual rules apply. Just follow the money. Look at who has been making massive donations, and buying influence and policy decisions.

It reminds me of The Great International Seatbelt Conspiracy

Seriously Bloke you need to put a bit more thought into this.

OB

keith99 · Oct 19, 2021

Tanj said:
Although it is for communism, at least when it comes to precious bodily fluids.

Yes the covid vaccine is the biggest threat to our precious bodily fluids and our purity of essence since floridated water!

A_Thinker · Oct 20, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
You need to explain how stopping people from working is not a massive power grab? How can people house, feed and clothe themselves and their families without a job? Are you suggesting that homelessness and starvation is a realistic option?

The lockdowns were temporary ... and all but ended now.

There are plenty of employment possibility out there right now.

If it was the government's aim to make their citizens homeless and starving, they sure did a poor job of it ...

A_Thinker · Oct 20, 2021

Sparagmos said:
The members of my union overwhelmingly support vaccine mandates. It’s a workplace safety issue.

Right ... because unions don't want their memberships dying off ... and they want America to be able to safely get back to work ...

2PhiloVoid · Oct 20, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I briefly raised this topic in a previous thread, but I thought that it was worth creating a new thread, so that the nature of vaccine mandates can be properly explored.

Benito Mussolini reportedly wrote:

"If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government. But not a government of, by, and for We The People; instead, it would be a government of, by, and for the most powerful corporate interests in the nation."

Isn't that exactly what we are seeing right now, with governments forcing vaccine mandates on entire populations?

Let's consider the United States, where the pharmaceuticals industry is said to be the most powerful lobby group. What we are seeing right now is a fusion of state power and corporate interests, in the use of vaccine mandates to trample on classical liberalism. Instead of individualism, we now have the power of the state being used to force a form of collectivism, where nobody has any individual rights, not even the right to bodily autonomy.

How is this not Fascism? It certainly appears to perfectly fit Benito Mussolini's description of what a Fascist government looks like.

... I empathize with some of your grievance, but let's not forget that the U.S. never was, never has been, and wasn't intended to be a full-fledged democracy. Those who aver for pure-bred democracy usually do so because they really think it is a "thing," but the truth is, what we have here is a Republic (~more or less), and as with any government, there is a locus not just of governmental power, but of "supreme power."

So, it shouldn't be any surprise to us that when push comes to shove in the U.S., there isn't always a vote involved. Vaccinations in a time deemed as an 'emergency' aren't exempted from this state of the State.

JustSomeBloke · Oct 20, 2021

Sparagmos said:
The members of my union overwhelmingly support vaccine mandates. It’s a workplace safety issue.

And the ones that don't have quite likely been oppressed into silence, due to all the unwarranted blaming of unvaccinated people. It's no different from the Nazis in 1930s Germany blaming Jewish communities for disease.

Sparagmos said:
‘the destruction of individual bodily autonomy" is not part of the definition of fascism or a requirement of fascism. You just added that.

You are splitting hairs. Benito Mussolini wrote:

If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government.

Individualism includes the right to bodily autonomy. If you can't choose what goes into your body, what can you choose?

Sparagmos said:
First, there are plenty of other jobs right now and the few people who have lost their jobs are unlikely to become homeless.

Easy for you to say. Wait until you've invested 20 or more years in a career, and are then kicked out.

Sparagmos said:
Second, are you claiming that anything which causes homelessness belies a grab for power? Like the two are automatically linked?

OK. How many months are you willing to go without any work or pay to try and prove your point?

Sparagmos said:
Third, what power is gained by creating more homelessness and, more importantly, who gains it? Be specific.

They are counting on people capitulating, and accepting the loss of bodily autonomy instead of enduring extreme hardship. Wait until they come for something you think is essential.

First they came for the unvaccinated .....

Sparagmos said:
That doesn’t answer the question. What do they have to gain by doing politically unpopular things?

Total control over every man, woman, and child. When you've submitted once, you're invested and in the system, and will most likely continue to submit to new demands so as not to lose your privileges.

Sparagmos said:
Of whom? Name names. And a conspiracy to do what specifically? All of this vague talk of power grabs isn’t compelling at all. What’s the end game of these conspiracists?

They've already publicly stated their aims, 'You will own nothing and you will be happy'.

How can you be so unaware of this?

Occams Barber said:
You seem to have missed this point. Vaccine mandates are not new.

Try reading Benito Mussolini's description of fascism again. It's not just the vaccine mandates, it's the fusion of state power and corporate interests. Do I need to remind you that a secretly recorded Pfizer employee admitted that 'basically our organisation is run on COVID money now'.

Occams Barber said:
How is "homelessness and starvation a "power grab". If (a big 'if') you had homelessness and starvation the results would be reduced Govt services (less tax to fund govt services), social unrest and huge corporate losses due to reduced consumerism. If vaccine mandates resulted in massive "homelessness and starvation" nobody would win. But, since they don't result in massive homelessness and starvation, we don't need to worry.

As I said above in a reply to another forum member, most will capitulate to avoid extreme hardship.

Occams Barber said:
This is just another wild, and unsubstantiated, opinion. It reminds me of The Great International Seatbelt Conspiracy

Photo taken yesterday:

Occams Barber said:
Seriously Bloke you need to put a bit more thought into this.

It's you that needs to think more. Didn't you ever wonder why 1930s Germany turned out the way it did? Since COVID began, wise, observant people no longer ask why Germany turned out that way. They've realised that most people are incapable of seeing what is right in front of their eyes, or are too spineless and will just turn a blind eye for an easier life. Unfortunately Hitler realised that too.

What luck for rulers that men do not think - Adolf Hitler

I'm tired of warning people that history is repeating itself. Don't say you weren't warned.

Vaccine Mandates - A Fusion of Government Power and Corporate Interests

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