Did God gather Israel in 1948? I think not

power1

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God knew Israel would be there, but I have not yet seen Scriptural evidence that it was a result of GOD gathering them. God does gather them after they repent. He will then destroy their enemies and etc. Can anyone make a case that God already gathered them in 1948?
 

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God is Sovereign. If one wants to seek for literal things in the bible ie- a physical nation being born in a day, that is up to them. Many Nations were born in a day when a piece of paper was signed. I wouldn't fall out with anyone on the matter.

Personally, i'd rather worship God in spirit and in truth than in things seen by the natural eye. Matthew 10:28, Galatians 4:26-31, Romans 14:17
 
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It depends on how you interpret Ezekiel 36. If you apply it to the Zionist movement there is a case to be made for it's partial fulfillment in the 20th century. It doesn't seem to me that verse 27 is universally fulfilled, but I think there are still a lot of Jews still in other countries besides Israel as well, so perhaps it is an ongoing process that is not complete yet.

Then we have Amos 9 which concurs. It cannot be referring to the first return from Babylon, because verse 15 would be violated in that case, and in any case it seems to be specifically speaking about Israel, and doesn't mention Judah.

Some commentators point to Isaiah 66, but that is the weakest scriptural argument. In this case the text is more metaphorical and vague and could easily be interpreted as a spiritual and not physical regathering. Isaiah 11; however, mentions a second regathering, which didn't happen until the Zionist movement.

Likewise, Jeremiah 16 could be referring to the restoration after the Babylonian conquest; however, Jeremiah 31 seems to fit better with the modern restoration.

And the first mention of this possibility goes all the way back to Deuteronomy 30 which doesn't give a time limit, and is open-ended regarding its meaning in that it only requires for the descendants of Israel to return to God and they will be returned from wherever they are dispersed any time in the future.

And one weird coincidence. Hosea 3:5 says "Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king." I'm pretty sure this refers posthumously to righteous king David, but the first prime minister in Israel in 1948 was named David Ben-Gurion.
 
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God knew Israel would be there, but I have not yet seen Scriptural evidence that it was a result of GOD gathering them. God does gather them after they repent. He will then destroy their enemies and etc. Can anyone make a case that God already gathered them in 1948?

Hi @power1

There is, as @SuperCow has mentioned, a prophecy of the Scriptures that does seem to apply to the return of Israel in 1948 to the land. It's much similar to the prophecy of Daniel's 70 sevens. Of course, whether one believes that it does refer to current day Israel taking back the land in 1948 is going to depend on how much trust one has in God's word and whether or not they are willing to believe that when God spoke to Israel about the law and to Ezekiel about what was going to happen with Israel because of its rebellion, that it really pointed to some actual accounting of time. Again, similarly to Daniel's prophecy of the 70 sevens.

Here's how it works out:

In the law, God laid out several consequences that would befall the nation of Israel, the people, if they did not keep His commands and decrees. They didn't, and God's consequences became relevant. The first of those consequences was the overtaking of Israel by the Babylonians and the 70 year captivity that God prophesied through the prophet Jeremiah. Daniel makes reference to Jeremiah's prophecy when he speaks of how he gained wisdom and knowledge concerning the length of Israel's captivity in Babylon.

...in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. Dan. 9:2

At the end of the 70 years of captivity, that came about just as the prophet had foretold, the King (Cyrus who had overtaken Babylon) over the Israelite people at the time, allowed the captives to go free and they were encouraged to return to the land of Israel. However, after 70 years, many of them had become rather comfortable where they were and many, many didn't return. This was also rebellion against their God.

According to the books of Ezra–Nehemiah, a number of decades later in 538 BCE, the Jews in Babylon were allowed to return to the Land of Israel, due to Cyrus's decree. Initially, around 50,000 Jews made aliyah (return to Zion) to the land of Israel following the decree of Cyrus as described in Ezra, whereas most remained in Babylon.

Then we come to the consequences of Israel's continued rebellion foretold through the prophet Ezekiel. God spoke to Ezekiel and laid out for him a punishment that He was going to bring unto Israel by describing something for Ezekiel to do, to represent this punishment. However, there is one other claim made in the law that needs to be considered along with this punishment. In the law given in the wilderness through Moses, God tells the people this:

“ ‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of your land yield their fruit. “ ‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted. “ ‘If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. And I will bring the sword on you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied. “ ‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.

God seems to have tried His best to make it perfectly clear to the people that continued rebellion, after once being corrected, would harvest a greater duration of such punishment seven times over. So now, back to Ezekiel's prophecy.

God tells Ezekiel that He is going to:

“Now, son of man, take a block of clay, put it in front of you and draw the city of Jerusalem on it. Then lay siege to it: Erect siege works against it, build a ramp up to it, set up camps against it and put battering rams around it. Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the people of Israel. “Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the people of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the people of Israel.
“After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the people of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year. Turn your face toward the siege of Jerusalem and with bared arm prophesy against her. I will tie you up with ropes so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have finished the days of your siege. “Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a storage jar and use them to make bread for yourself. You are to eat it during the 390 days you lie on your side. Weigh out twenty shekels of food to eat each day and eat it at set times. Also measure out a sixth of a hin of water and drink it at set times.
Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel.” The LORD said, “In this way the people of Israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I will drive them.” Then I said, “Not so, Sovereign LORD! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth.” “Very well,” he said, “I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement.” He then said to me: “Son of man, I am about to cut off the food supply in Jerusalem. The people will eat rationed food in anxiety and drink rationed water in despair, for food and water will be scarce. They will be appalled at the sight of each other and will waste away because of their sin.

Now we have the building blocks of prophecy that will lead us to exactly 1948.

The duration of Israel's captivity in Babylon was 70 years. However, God had told Ezekiel that their rebellion would cost them 430 years (40+390). So there is still 360 biblical years of consequence due Israel, if they did not correct their rebellion. History and the Scriptures both confirm that Israel did not return to the Lord. The starting point for the rest of the consequence is 536 B.C. That's the year that Israel was released from their captivity in Babylon, now Persia. 360 biblical years (360 days) multiplied by the seven fold increase of Israel's consequence, becomes 2,520 years. 2520 years times the 360 day biblical year, becomes 907,200 days. So, Israel still has a total of 907,200 days to atone for their sin.

Our modern calendar actually contains 365.25 days/year and so if we divide the total number of days (907,200) by the modern calendar to allow for the 360 day biblical year, we get a total number of years of 2483. If we take the 2483 years and subtract the 536 years of the B.C. era, we are left with 1947 A.D. However, there is no year zero and so we must add one year to the 1947. Guess where that leaves us?

So, depending on one's faith in God's word and the ability to tie all of these prophecies of God concerning how He was going to deal with Israel's rebellion, there is a fairly solid argument that 1948 was, since at least the days of Ezekiel, always going to be the year that Israel would return to their land.

See here for a 'better' explanation: https://ltfmc.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ezekiels-prophecy-of-1948.pdf

God bless,
Ted
 
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Acts 1:6-11, Matthew 24:36-39, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 
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Maria Billingsley

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God knew Israel would be there, but I have not yet seen Scriptural evidence that it was a result of GOD gathering them. God does gather them after they repent. He will then destroy their enemies and etc. Can anyone make a case that God already gathered them in 1948?
Jesus Christ of Nazareth lamented ...
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Geo- political Israel remains in the same condition, unwilling. He only gathers those who follow Him. On the last day, judgment, they will know Him but it will be too late.
Blessings.
 
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power1

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God is Sovereign. If one wants to seek for literal things in the bible ie- a physical nation being born in a day, that is up to them. Many Nations were born in a day when a piece of paper was signed. I wouldn't fall out with anyone on the matter.

Personally, i'd rather worship God in spirit and in truth than in things seen by the natural eye. Matthew 10:28, Galatians 4:26-31, Romans 14:17
The problem is that the prophesy about a nation born in a day could not have been Israel in history.
Isaiah 66:6
A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

God did not destroy the enemies of Israel the day they called themselves a nation in 1948.

Then after the verse about a nation born in a day we have further clarity as to when this will be.

Isaiah 66:12
For thus saith the Lord , Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
Isaiah 66:13
As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 66:14
And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the Lord shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies
 
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power1

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Jesus Christ of Nazareth lamented ...
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Geo- political Israel remains in the same condition, unwilling. He only gathers those who follow Him. On the last day, judgment, they will know Him but it will be too late.
Blessings.
I agree, He will gather them one day and one day they will all be saved (the remnant left alive)
 
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power1

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It depends on how you interpret Ezekiel 36. If you apply it to the Zionist movement there is a case to be made for it's partial fulfillment in the 20th century. It doesn't seem to me that verse 27 is universally fulfilled, but I think there are still a lot of Jews still in other countries besides Israel as well, so perhaps it is an ongoing process that is not complete yet.
Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
That has certainly not happened yet to the secular nation.
 
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power1

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Some commentators point to Isaiah 66, but that is the weakest scriptural argument. In this case the text is more metaphorical and vague and could easily be interpreted as a spiritual and not physical regathering. Isaiah 11; however, mentions a second regathering, which didn't happen until the Zionist movement.
No way Isa 11 happened yet.

Isaiah 11:6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 11:7
And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isaiah 11:8
And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isaiah 11:9
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord , as the waters cover the sea.

Likewise, Jeremiah 16 could be referring to the restoration after the Babylonian conquest; however, Jeremiah 31 seems to fit better with the modern restoration.
Unless someone thinks there was no more sorrow in Israel since 1948 that could not fit.

Jeremiah 31:10
Hear the word of the Lord , O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
Jeremiah 31:11
For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
Jeremiah 31:12
Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the Lord , for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.
And the first mention of this possibility goes all the way back to Deuteronomy 30 which doesn't give a time limit, and is open-ended regarding its meaning in that it only requires for the descendants of Israel to return to God and they will be returned from wherever they are dispersed any time in the future.
God will return them after they repent. That was not history.

And one weird coincidence. Hosea 3:5 says "Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king." I'm pretty sure this refers posthumously to righteous king David, but the first prime minister in Israel in 1948 was named David Ben-Gurion.
Sorry, that could not fill the bill. There are many folks named David. The prophesy about David is talking about Jesus.
 
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power1

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There is, as @SuperCow has mentioned, a prophecy of the Scriptures that does seem to apply to the return of Israel in 1948 to the land. It's much similar to the prophecy of Daniel's 70 sevens. Of course, whether one believes that it does refer to current day Israel taking back the land in 1948 is going to depend on how much trust one has in God's word and whether or not they are willing to believe that when God spoke to Israel about the law and to Ezekiel about what was going to happen with Israel because of its rebellion, that it really pointed to some actual accounting of time. Again, similarly to Daniel's prophecy of the 70 sevens.

Here's how it works out:

In the law, God laid out several consequences that would befall the nation of Israel, the people, if they did not keep His commands and decrees. They didn't, and God's consequences became relevant. The first of those consequences was the overtaking of Israel by the Babylonians and the 70 year captivity that God prophesied through the prophet Jeremiah. Daniel makes reference to Jeremiah's prophecy when he speaks of how he gained wisdom and knowledge concerning the length of Israel's captivity in Babylon.

...in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. Dan. 9:2

At the end of the 70 years of captivity, that came about just as the prophet had foretold, the King (Cyrus who had overtaken Babylon) over the Israelite people at the time, allowed the captives to go free and they were encouraged to return to the land of Israel. However, after 70 years, many of them had become rather comfortable where they were and many, many didn't return. This was also rebellion against their God.

According to the books of Ezra–Nehemiah, a number of decades later in 538 BCE, the Jews in Babylon were allowed to return to the Land of Israel, due to Cyrus's decree. Initially, around 50,000 Jews made aliyah (return to Zion) to the land of Israel following the decree of Cyrus as described in Ezra, whereas most remained in Babylon.

Then we come to the consequences of Israel's continued rebellion foretold through the prophet Ezekiel. God spoke to Ezekiel and laid out for him a punishment that He was going to bring unto Israel by describing something for Ezekiel to do, to represent this punishment. However, there is one other claim made in the law that needs to be considered along with this punishment. In the law given in the wilderness through Moses, God tells the people this:

“ ‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of your land yield their fruit. “ ‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted. “ ‘If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. And I will bring the sword on you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied. “ ‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.

God seems to have tried His best to make it perfectly clear to the people that continued rebellion, after once being corrected, would harvest a greater duration of such punishment seven times over. So now, back to Ezekiel's prophecy.

God tells Ezekiel that He is going to:

“Now, son of man, take a block of clay, put it in front of you and draw the city of Jerusalem on it. Then lay siege to it: Erect siege works against it, build a ramp up to it, set up camps against it and put battering rams around it. Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the people of Israel. “Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the people of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the people of Israel.
“After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the people of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year. Turn your face toward the siege of Jerusalem and with bared arm prophesy against her. I will tie you up with ropes so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have finished the days of your siege. “Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a storage jar and use them to make bread for yourself. You are to eat it during the 390 days you lie on your side. Weigh out twenty shekels of food to eat each day and eat it at set times. Also measure out a sixth of a hin of water and drink it at set times.
Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel.” The LORD said, “In this way the people of Israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I will drive them.” Then I said, “Not so, Sovereign LORD! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead or torn by wild animals. No impure meat has ever entered my mouth.” “Very well,” he said, “I will let you bake your bread over cow dung instead of human excrement.” He then said to me: “Son of man, I am about to cut off the food supply in Jerusalem. The people will eat rationed food in anxiety and drink rationed water in despair, for food and water will be scarce. They will be appalled at the sight of each other and will waste away because of their sin.

Now we have the building blocks of prophecy that will lead us to exactly 1948.

The duration of Israel's captivity in Babylon was 70 years. However, God had told Ezekiel that their rebellion would cost them 430 years (40+390). So there is still 360 biblical years of consequence due Israel, if they did not correct their rebellion. History and the Scriptures both confirm that Israel did not return to the Lord. The starting point for the rest of the consequence is 536 B.C. That's the year that Israel was released from their captivity in Babylon, now Persia. 360 biblical years (360 days) multiplied by the seven fold increase of Israel's consequence, becomes 2,520 years. 2520 years times the 360 day biblical year, becomes 907,200 days. So, Israel still has a total of 907,200 days to atone for their sin.

Our modern calendar actually contains 365.25 days/year and so if we divide the total number of days (907,200) by the modern calendar to allow for the 360 day biblical year, we get a total number of years of 2483. If we take the 2483 years and subtract the 536 years of the B.C. era, we are left with 1947 A.D. However, there is no year zero and so we must add one year to the 1947. Guess where that leaves us?

So, depending on one's faith in God's word and the ability to tie all of these prophecies of God concerning how He was going to deal with Israel's rebellion, there is a fairly solid argument that 1948 was, since at least the days of Ezekiel, always going to be the year that Israel would return to their land.

See here for a 'better' explanation: https://ltfmc.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ezekiels-prophecy-of-1948.pdf

God bless,
Ted
Ezekiel 4:4
Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
Ezekiel 4:5
For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
Ezekiel 4:6
And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
Ezekiel 4:7
Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it.
Ezekiel 4:8
And, behold, I will lay bands upon thee, and thou shalt not turn thee from one side to another, till thou hast ended the days of thy siege.

Looking at a bible commentary, we see that these years have to do with history.

"The prophet’s next acted parable lasted more than a year. Each day he spent a period lying on his side facing his model of besieged Jerusalem. He was bound with cords so that he could not move, to symbolize that God’s people could not escape the judgment of their sins. However, his arm was left bare, to demonstrate God’s determination to fight against Jerusalem. The number of days he lay on his left side was for the number of years from the northern kingdom’s breakaway from Jerusalem to the end of the captivity. The number of days he lay on his right side was for the number of years from the fall of Jerusalem to the end of the captivity (4-8)."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bbc/ezekiel-4.html
There does not seem to be any need to connect this to modern times. The confusing and somewhat contorted effort to do so seems to be grasping at straws.
 
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Leavened yet Adopted

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The problem is that the prophesy about a nation born in a day could not have been Israel in history.
Isaiah 66:6
A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

God did not destroy the enemies of Israel the day they called themselves a nation in 1948.

Then after the verse about a nation born in a day we have further clarity as to when this will be.

Isaiah 66:12
For thus saith the Lord , Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
Isaiah 66:13
As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 66:14
And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the Lord shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies


Revelation 22:17

warning - revelation Revelation 22:19
 
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The problem is that the prophesy about a nation born in a day could not have been Israel in history.
Isaiah 66:6
A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

God did not destroy the enemies of Israel the day they called themselves a nation in 1948.

Then after the verse about a nation born in a day we have further clarity as to when this will be.

Isaiah 66:12
For thus saith the Lord , Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
Isaiah 66:13
As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 66:14
And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the Lord shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies

Isaiah 66 needs careful attention, but, if your saved by the blood of the Lamb (Christ) your sins are washed away
 
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power1

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Isaiah 66 needs careful attention, but, if your saved by the blood of the Lamb (Christ) your sins are washed away
Great. This is news? Israel in 1948 was not in the blood of the Lamb we should notice.
 
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SuperCow

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@miamited I'm not a huge proponent of tying the 1948 nation to the 2520 year calculation.

I've seen the seventh day adventists use it (as well as the 1260 year periods) to point to then end of papal supremacy in 1798 AD, as well as creating a variation of the Millerite movement that predicted Christ's return in 1844 AD.

Jehovah's witnesses originally predicted Christ's return in 1914, but for that to work, they push the destruction of Jerusalem back 20 years earlier to 607 BC. (Which cascades to all their other dates for every event prior to that, which would otherwise align with Ussher's work if not for that)

Then we have the British Israelites using the 2520 year calculation to point to the founding of their ideology of the lost tribes of Israel settling in the British Isles.

I know that the numbers can be made to work in the way you specify, but in no other places in the Bible can you point to the use of 360 day intervals to use in calculating the year against the normal calendar year. (For prophecies that specify time periods like Abraham or Jeremiah for instance)

You could just as easily use a calendar year from 587 AD + 2520 years and say that Hitler's increasing persecution of Jews was the beginning of the events leading to Israel being called back home. (And for them, you might even call it a great tribulation.) I would be careful not to rely on numeric algorithms that only look obvious in hindsight.

Math and history have a way of being flexible enough to coordinate things in this way.
 
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miamited

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Hi @SuperCow

I've seen the seventh day adventists use it (as well as the 1260 year periods) to point to then end of papal supremacy in 1798 AD, as well as creating a variation of the Millerite movement that predicted Christ's return in 1844 AD.

Yes, but none of those events came to pass. As far as the prophecy that I'm talking about Israel did become a nation in 1948. Had Christ returned in 1844, for which there is truly no way to make the numbers of the prophecy that I'm referring to point to 1844, then maybe today we could agree that the prophecy somehow pointed to that date. But...Jesus didn't return in 1844. Israel did become a nation in 1948 and the prophecy seems to be pretty darned accurate in pointing to that date. So, while I understand that you may have read other explanations of the prophecies, as far as I know, only the return of Israel actually happened about the time that the prophecy does seem to point to.

Jehovah's witnesses originally predicted Christ's return in 1914, but for that to work, they push the destruction of Jerusalem back 20 years earlier to 607 BC.

Right, and just as explained above, we know Christ did not return in 1914 and so the JW's are obviously wrong in their prophetic foretelling. But...Israel did return in 1948 which is where this prophecy that I'm discussing does point to.

Just as Daniel's prophecy of the 70 sevens was obviously not understood by Israel prior to Jesus' visiting us, we can now, after the fact mark out the exact date that Jesus was to visit us based on the prophecy because now Jesus has come. Now, on this side of the equation, we know when Jesus came and so we can go back and reread Daniel's prophecy, for which the angel specifically told Daniel that it foretold the coming Messiah, and see how the years of 69 sevens does work out to exactly when Jesus was with us.

So, sometimes, before events happen, prophecies can be made to explain a lot of things that are going to happen. We see that all the time now in those who propose to tell us all the things that are going to happen in the last days based on the Revelation of Jesus. But trust me, after the days of great tribulation have come, then we will, most of us, be able to sit back and say, "OHHh. That's what was being explained to us." Just as today we can say, "Ohhhh. I see how Daniel's 69 sevens worked out. And we can also now sit on this side of Israel's return, which we know that God has always promised us was going to happen through dozens of other prophetic passages. But now we can sit back and add up all the numbers of the prophecy and say, "Ohhhh. I see now how 1948 was exactly when Israel we supposed to regain its nationhood based on God's word.

I don't know if you've done any reading on the bible codes that seem to be contained in the writings of the law, and it is only in these few writings that the codes appear. But it lists a number of names and dates, that unfortunately we have no clue as to what they're about, until after a certain person or a certain date has come. It's really quite a fascinating study. And while I understand that there are naysayers among us who claim that the phenomenon is just not possible, it is worth considering that one of the main points that the ELS (equidistant letter spacing) claims is that you can't know what words or dates to look for until after some event has passed. Similarly, I claim here that even with biblical prophecy, much of it isn't understood until after an event takes place that was foretold.

As I wrote earlier, despite the angel telling Daniel that the prophecy he was about to receive was explaining 'when' Messiah would come, it seems that very few in Israel understood it, even as it was unfolding right before their eyes. Jesus, in his first teaching read from the scroll of Isaiah the prophecy of what God's servant would be doing. Jesus read it and then said to them, "This prophecy is fulfilled in your hearing." None of those people understood what Jesus was talking about. If they had, they would have immediately understood that Jesus was the Messiah, the servant of God that Isaiah was writing about.

We actually stand today and slap ourselves on the forehead. Questioning with a certain amount of incredulity, "How can they not have known?' An entire legion of angels appeared in the sky over the heads of a group of shepherds when then went into Bethlehem and told the people what they had seen, and yet most of the Jews had no idea 30 years later, that they were murdering God's Messiah. So, I understand that prophecy often can't be understood until after what ever is prophesied comes to pass. But now Israel has been reborn. It happened in 1948. There is a prophecy in the Scriptures which does point us to that date. It obviously wasn't a prophecy foretelling of Jesus' return in 1844 or pointing to the end of the papacy in 1798.

God bless,
Ted
 
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