Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

Leaf473 · Oct 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
But you apply it to one of the Ten - the 4th commandment, so again your statement does not make sense to me. I already answered Lev 19:13 Post #167

So several times I've asked the same question about
whether Leviticus 19:13 is a moral law, one of God's eternal laws or not.

Is the issue that you don't understand what I'm asking?

Another user here said to me recently that they didn't want to talk about any commandments other than the 10 until I agreed with them about the 10.

Is there some obstacle to you simply saying
Yes, it is one of God's eternal laws
Or
No, it is not one of God's eternal laws?

I don't want to badger you. If there's some reason why you don't want to answer, I would like to know.

And if you don't want to give a reason, that's okay too, we can just end the discussion.

Peace be with you, my Sister in Christ!

Aussie Pete · Oct 16, 2021

HIM said:
A couple things not mention yet. First in verse 12 it says that ALL manner of creatures were unfolded before Peter. Clean and unclean were laid out before him to eat and he refused to eat any.

Second thing not mention is in Peter's refusal to rise up, kill and eat he mentions two classifications of what he saw. Common and unclean. So even though there were ALL MANNER of creatures laid out before him in Peter's mind the creatures that God had made clean were not animal. He seen them as common and refused to eat them due it.

Thirdly in verse 15 God never mentions the unclean animals. He only states that he has cleansed the common.

Couple that with the interpretation Peter was given and we can see without a doubt the vision had nothing to do with eating animals.

Acts 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

One last thing. The Greek word in Acts 10 translated unclean is not the same Greek word translated unclean in Romans 14. It is the same Greek word translated common in Acts 10. So with that in mind Romans 14 should be translated as follows.

I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing by itself is common; except to the one deeming anything to be common, it is common.
(Rom 14:14 LITV)

According to Strongs, either word is correct. Translators have chosen unclean or impure, the Amplified expands this to "ritually" unclean. I take it to mean that food laws are now a matter of conscience.
Colossians 2:16 is my response to anyone who has anything to say about my diet. I eat very little that was prohibited in the OT. Pork products and some fish, occasionally oysters. Vegetarians are not morally superior people. Adolf Hitler was vegetarian.

Aussie Pete · Oct 16, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Here is a short video regarding eating pork and other unclean meats from a bible and health perspective. It’s about 10 minutes long.

God bless

This is the kind of rubbish that SDA's taught regarding food, courtesy of Dr John Kellog.
"Unlike today’s food trends, he also believed that man’s modern diets led them to carnal sins. "Highly seasoned [meats], stimulating sauces... and dainty tidbits in endless variety,” Kellogg wrote, “irritate [the] nerves and… react upon the sexual organs.” Dr. Kellogg wrote as much about the dangers of sex and masturbation as he did about healthy living. Cereal was the bridge; the dietetic remedy to keep Americans’ diets from leading them to sin." Being vegetarian did nothing for Adolf Hitler, avoiding pork did nothing for Osama Bin Laden.

The quote is from "Plain facts for old and young". Plain, maybe, facts, no way.

prophecy_uk · Oct 17, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Hi again,

None of these verses you quoted tell us God deemed all foods clean. You seem to be taking these scriptures out of context.

I personally would not want to eat anything God calls an abomination.

“Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:17

All is clean, that is the purpose of God revealing this at the same time He cleaned the Gentiles, God is now revealing all is cleansed.

Previously it was unlawful for a Jew to even eat with the Gentile, now they are cleansed so can eat together ( as we saw Jesus eat with sinners as He came to call them to repentance)

Matthew 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

That is why Apostle Paul taught us, that nothing is unclean, all is sanctified by the word of God, and it is only unclean to the ones who think that way.

On top of that, nobody can call unclean what God has cleansed, all is cleansed is revealed, it cannot be undone, or that is trying to undo the cross..

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Acts 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

prophecy_uk · Oct 17, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
1. God did separate this one commandment in that He used the word REMEMBER so if one is trying to make a case against one of the commandments of God personally written by God it would not be the one that God told us to Remember.

2. Isaiah 58:13 This is the only day God claims as being His holy day in the entire bible starting from the very beginning Genesis 2:1-3 and continues for eternity Isaiah 66:23. God changes not. You cannot separate God from His holy Sabbath day and it really makes me sad so many people try to do this. God has always made Himself an example for us.

3. We were created in His image, we are told to follow in the footsteps of Jesus who kept the Sabbath.Luke 4:16, Matthew 15:10 God does not want us to keep holy a day God did His work Genesis 1 and the day God tells us to do all our work Exodus 20:9. God wants us to keep holy the same day that He keeps holy- its a holy union and I like to say holy communion with our Creator and Savior on His very special day for eternity.

God bless

1. The first answer against law, is faith, and when it was a commandment to remember the sabbath, it is now replaced by faith ( of the Holy Ghost) who brings all things to remembrance for us ( of the faith Christ taught us in the Gospel)

We also do that one thing, we do not look back ( to the law) we press forward to the mark of the high prize and calling of Jesus Christ..

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

2. The sabbath was the only holy day, and another day came, that is more holy, we heard of these who were great in wisdom, but a greater than them came, so did a more holy day through Christ..

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Isaiah 49:8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Zechariah 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

3. Jesus kept the sabbath by doing his custom of entering the synagogue on sabbath, then revealed the truth to Israel, how many widows in Israel were not helped in time of great famine, and many lepers in Israel and none of them were cleansed, only a Syrian was cleansed.

The way for Jesus to keep sabbath was to fill Israel full of wrath on the sabbath, to disturb them from their pretenses, and to reveal what they really are inside, how they thrust God away from them on the sabbath..

Luke 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
This is the kind of rubbish that SDA's taught regarding food, courtesy of Dr John Kellog.
"Unlike today’s food trends, he also believed that man’s modern diets led them to carnal sins. "Highly seasoned [meats], stimulating sauces... and dainty tidbits in endless variety,” Kellogg wrote, “irritate [the] nerves and… react upon the sexual organs.” Dr. Kellogg wrote as much about the dangers of sex and masturbation as he did about healthy living. Cereal was the bridge; the dietetic remedy to keep Americans’ diets from leading them to sin." Being vegetarian did nothing for Adolf Hitler, avoiding pork did nothing for Osama Bin Laden.

The quote is from "Plain facts for old and young". Plain, maybe, facts, no way.

I’m sorry you feel that way but it is not the SDA who deemed which foods are clean or unclean that was God and God calls pork an abomination, not something the SDA’s made up.

prophecy_uk · Oct 17, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I’m sorry you feel that way but it is not the SDA who deemed which foods are clean or unclean that was God and God calls pork an abomination, not something the SDA’s made up.

Peter was confused also that God had cleansed the Gentiles, and all things of course then are cleansed, it is the wisdom of God why some were unclean, to point towards the Gentiles being unclean to Jews, then God intending to cleanse all.

prophecy_uk · Oct 17, 2021

Remember also in the garden, all was very good, and all ate herbs, animals and man did the same.

No animal is abomination, all are Gods good creations.

Neither is an animal meat, they are to be enjoyed living, as God made in the beginning when all was very good.

Of course I can know this and say this, because I am vegetarian, not for laws, but out of love ( faith works by love, not by law at all, it is shown)

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2021

Leaf473 said:
So several times I've asked the same question about
whether Leviticus 19:13 is a moral law, one of God's eternal laws or not.

Is the issue that you don't understand what I'm asking?

Another user here said to me recently that they didn't want to talk about any commandments other than the 10 until I agreed with them about the 10.

Is there some obstacle to you simply saying
Yes, it is one of God's eternal laws
Or
No, it is not one of God's eternal laws?

I don't want to badger you. If there's some reason why you don't want to answer, I would like to know.

And if you don't want to give a reason, that's okay too, we can just end the discussion.

Peace be with you, my Sister in Christ!

Leaf,

It seems like you are getting upset and I am not sure why. I did answer your question. I’ll answer it again, but it hasn’t changed. The text in question Lev 19:13 which falls under the 8th commandment - thous shalt not steal which is an eternal moral commandment.

Regarding the other poster wanting to only talk about the Ten Commandments I followed that conversation loosely and from what I got out of it after discussions about many laws, that poster wanted to narrow it down to the Ten and even suggested to narrow it down to just one commandment to make it easier and that offer was declined. If you do not understand the role of the Ten Commandments in the Bible it will be harder understand the role of any of the law.

God bless and peace to you as well

prophecy_uk · Oct 17, 2021

SabbathBlessings, I will explain it more for you.

Joseph thought his brothers would understand the wisdom of God, how God would deliver and preserve the Hebrews through Joseph being betrayed into the hands of Egypt bu his brothers including Judah, ( the same as Jesus was betrayed but this is for the light and cleansing of the Gentiles ( this proves and shows the way of the faith of God)..

Genesis 45:5 Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.

Acts 7:25 For he supposed his brethren would have understood how that God by his hand would deliver them: but they understood not.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

The disciples even did not understand the wisdom of God, ( no Spirit of wisdom and understanding given until Christ risen and glorified) and what Paul says is hard to be understood according to the wisdom given to him...

John 12:16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter, is chosen then by God to be for correction, and did not understand the things Christ was doing, including to lay His life down so we live ( Jesus had to rebuke Peter to be of satan)

Here in Acts we see Peter is confused how God shows that nothing is unclean when God reveals it is cleansed..

Acts 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This is why Peter here again, has to ask Jesus what He means, of the parable of what goes into mans mouth not defiling him, and what comes out of him is instead what defiles him???????

It is confounding to the legalistic Jews.

But Jesus again asking and highlighting that Peter is yet without understanding, tells WHATSOEVER GOES INTO THE BELLY, GOES BACK OUT, it cant defile you.

But what is in that heart, is evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies, they defile you, as they remain in you...

Matthew 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Now we are revealed this and persuaded of this..

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Love is not narrowing down the law, love is magnifying it to make it honourable, for the sake of the righteousness of the Lord....

Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2021

prophecy_uk said:
SabbathBlessings, I will explain it more for you.

Joseph thought his brothers would understand the wisdom of God, how God would deliver and preserve the Hebrews through Joseph being betrayed into the hands of Egypt bu his brothers including Judah, ( the same as Jesus was betrayed but this is for the light and cleansing of the Gentiles ( this proves and shows the way of the faith of God)..

Genesis 45:5 Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life.

Acts 7:25 For he supposed his brethren would have understood how that God by his hand would deliver them: but they understood not.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

The disciples even did not understand the wisdom of God, ( no Spirit of wisdom and understanding given until Christ risen and glorified) and what Paul says is hard to be understood according to the wisdom given to him...

John 12:16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter, is chosen then by God to be for correction, and did not understand the things Christ was doing, including to lay His life down so we live ( Jesus had to rebuke Peter to be of satan)

Here in Acts we see Peter is confused how God shows that nothing is unclean when God reveals it is cleansed..

Acts 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This is why Peter here again, has to ask Jesus what He means, of the parable of what goes into mans mouth not defiling him, and what comes out of him is instead what defiles him???????

It is confounding to the legalistic Jews.

But Jesus again asking and highlighting that Peter is yet without understanding, tells WHATSOEVER GOES INTO THE BELLY, GOES BACK OUT, it cant defile you.

But what is in that heart, is evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies, they defile you, as they remain in you...

Matthew 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Now we are revealed this and persuaded of this..

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Love is not narrowing down the law, love is magnifying it to make it honourable, for the sake of the righteousness of the Lord....

Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Hi again

I see is a lot of scriptures taken out of context here. Due to time I will just address the last scripture Isaiah 42:21 which I do not think helps your case. Jesus never came to destroy the law of God, Jesus came to magnify (Magnify means to make greater not lesser). Jesus came to magnify the law from the inside out. He doesn’t just want us changed on the outside we should be transformed on the inside which start with our thoughts. Jesus used two examples of this taken from the Ten Commandments saying murder and adultery begins with the heart. Matthew 5:19-30. This verse is in no way saying that Jesus made all foods clean, The Bible explains itself just like it did in the vision and was not referring to food but people as it was clearly spelled out. God bless

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2021

prophecy_uk said:
1. The first answer against law, is faith, and when it was a commandment to remember the sabbath, it is now replaced by faith ( of the Holy Ghost) who brings all things to remembrance for us ( of the faith Christ taught us in the Gospel)

We also do that one thing, we do not look back ( to the law) we press forward to the mark of the high prize and calling of Jesus Christ..

Faith is what establishes the law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Obedience is a fruit of our faith. We demonstrate this great faith in the Word of our Savior by obeying what He asks, not disobeying. Jesus said IF (conditional) you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

Which is why we see God’s saints have both the faith in Jesus and keep the commandments of God. Revelations 14:12. God bless

Leaf473 · Oct 17, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Leaf,

It seems like you are getting upset and I am not sure why.

No, I'm not getting upset at all. That's one of the difficulties with just being able to write text and not being able to hear the tone of someone's voice, isn't it?

I did answer your question. I’ll answer it again, but it hasn’t changed. The text in question Lev 19:13 which falls under the 8th commandment - thous shalt not steal which is an eternal moral commandment.

Yes, that's what I was looking for! A specific answer that it is indeed a moral law, one of God's eternal laws.

And the next step: as an eternal law, are we to keep it the letter of it, following this train of thought?

*******************
Kind of a follow-up question, if you're interested, and if it's allowable under CF rules. Why wasn't Leviticus 19:13 on your list of God's eternal laws on that other thread?
*******************

Regarding the other poster wanting to only talk about the Ten Commandments I followed that conversation loosely and from what I got out of it after discussions about many laws, that poster wanted to narrow it down to the Ten and even suggested to narrow it down to just one commandment to make it easier and that offer was declined.

His offer was not declined. I said my explanation would require discussing the rest of God's eternal laws. He declined to expand the thread topic to include those laws.

If you do not understand the role of the Ten Commandments in the Bible it will be harder understand the role of any of the law.

God bless and peace to you as well

I believe I do understand the theology you present regarding the 10. I believe that theology breaks down when moving on to the rest of God's eternal laws. But perhaps I'm wrong. God willing, we will see.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2021

Leaf473 said:
No, I'm not getting upset at all. That's one of the difficulties with just being able to write text and not being able to hear the tone of someone's voice, isn't it?

Yes, that's what I was looking for! A specific answer that it is indeed a moral law, one of God's eternal laws.

And the next step: as an eternal law, are we to keep it the letter of it, following this train of thought?

*******************
Kind of a follow-up question, if you're interested, and if it's allowable under CF rules. Why wasn't Leviticus 19:13 on your list of God's eternal laws on that other thread?
*******************

His offer was not declined. I said my explanation would require discussing the rest of God's eternal laws. He declined to expand the thread topic to include those laws.

I believe I do understand the theology you present regarding the 10. I believe that theology breaks down when moving on to the rest of God's eternal laws. But perhaps I'm wrong. God willing, we will see.

I think you are missing the whole point- Lev 19:13 is covered under commandment #8. There are many laws and principles that fall under God’s moral Ten Commandments. That’s what is so magnificent about the Ten Commandments the law personally written by our Creator and now written in our hearts and minds.

God bless to you Leaf and hope you have a wonderful day.

Bob S · Oct 17, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Those are contradictory statements. The 4th commandment is part of God's Ten Commandments and not sure why you are isolating the 4th commandment when God gave such clear instructions on all of the Ten Commandments including the 4th commandment and Holy day of the Lord thy God and the day God commanded us to keep holy. Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13

Nowhere is there a command for "US" to keep the fourth commandment holy. That is a misnomer propagated by the SDA church and Messianic groups.

I am not sure why my answer would affect the way you apply the 4th commandment that God wrote and spoke for us but here is my answer regardless.

Not spoke for US, spoke for them.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2021

Bob S said:
Nowhere is there a command for "US" to keep the fourth commandment holy. That is a misnomer propagated by the SDA church and Messianic groups.

Not spoke for US, spoke for them.

Jesus is the one who said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and ALL FLESH will worship Him one Sabbath to another Isaiah 66:23.

No where in the Bible does it say the holy day of the Lord is only made for Jews. Maybe you can find that quote.

AdamjEdgar · Oct 17, 2021

Bob S said:
Nowhere is there a command for "US" to keep the fourth commandment holy. That is a misnomer propagated by the SDA church and Messianic groups.

Not spoke for US, spoke for them.

What? That is an unusual statement!

Firstly, many people claim that the old covenant was a covenant of works under the law. That is completely false. It is easily proven false by Deuteronomy 9

God is driving out these nations before you, to keep the promise He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.

God led his people into Canaan because he was fulfilling a promise made to their forefathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who by faith believed he would!

Second, ALL Christians (followers of Christ) are spiritual Israel. if you do not believe this then you are not a Christian! Therefore, spiritual Israel is under the exact same statutes and laws that the Nation of Israel was...that is why we are called "spiritual Israel"

How does one define a follower? Someone leads and one follows. Christ (for 30 odd years of his life) led by example and by preaching. I find it impossible to believe that a teacher (I am a former high school teacher) would lead anyone in one direction only to be completely ignored after said teacher is gone! That is not what teachers do...not now, not ever! We have to put some common sense to good use here surely!

prophecy_uk · Oct 18, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Faith is what establishes the law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Obedience is a fruit of our faith. We demonstrate this great faith in the Word of our Savior by obeying what He asks, not disobeying. Jesus said IF (conditional) you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

Which is why we see God’s saints have both the faith in Jesus and keep the commandments of God. Revelations 14:12. God bless

The law is of faith and of love, Paul warns against the faithless ones who seek God through works of the law, and not of faith.

The difference between the two is, by law they keep without Spirit ( the Spirit of faith in Christ) the law and then break it and ask forgiveness.

In faith, they are faithful believers and believe that the law of Christ is the law of love which is kept by being kept in the love of God by continuing to believe in the righteousness of Christ.

prophecy_uk · Oct 18, 2021

AdamjEdgar said:
What? That is an unusual statement!

Firstly, many people claim that the old covenant was a covenant of works under the law. That is completely false. It is easily proven false by Deuteronomy 9

God is driving out these nations before you, to keep the promise He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.

God led his people into Canaan because he was fulfilling a promise made to their forefathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who by faith believed he would!

Second, ALL Christians (followers of Christ) are spiritual Israel. if you do not believe this then you are not a Christian! Therefore, spiritual Israel is under the exact same statutes and laws that the Nation of Israel was...that is why we are called "spiritual Israel"

How does one define a follower? Someone leads and one follows. Christ (for 30 odd years of his life) led by example and by preaching. I find it impossible to believe that a teacher (I am a former high school teacher) would lead anyone in one direction only to be completely ignored after said teacher is gone! That is not what teachers do...not now, not ever! We have to put some common sense to good use here surely!

What the Jews were under was law, that is why all died in that law of sin and death.

Faith is what we are called to, as seen in Abraham, and that is by believing in the promises of God ( the Jews did not believe in those promises and still do not)

Law never got anyone near to God, but faith in Christ rising from the dead does, which changes the law ( we are no longer under the school master that is the law)

Then to teach law is to teach as if you are a school master, when you are not one of the law, so stop your school teaching here ( law).

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Seducing teachers are ended, we are taught by Christ, not by satan....

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Ceallaigh · Oct 18, 2021

AdamjEdgar said:
What? That is an unusual statement!

Firstly, many people claim that the old covenant was a covenant of works under the law. That is completely false. It is easily proven false by Deuteronomy 9

God is driving out these nations before you, to keep the promise He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the LORD your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.

God led his people into Canaan because he was fulfilling a promise made to their forefathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who by faith believed he would!

Second, ALL Christians (followers of Christ) are spiritual Israel. if you do not believe this then you are not a Christian! Therefore, spiritual Israel is under the exact same statutes and laws that the Nation of Israel was...that is why we are called "spiritual Israel"

How does one define a follower? Someone leads and one follows. Christ (for 30 odd years of his life) led by example and by preaching. I find it impossible to believe that a teacher (I am a former high school teacher) would lead anyone in one direction only to be completely ignored after said teacher is gone! That is not what teachers do...not now, not ever! We have to put some common sense to good use here surely!

The teachers of Christianity after the Resurrection, from the apostles to the disciples they taught and appointed as teachers, never taught SDA or Messianic theology. That's something people like Ellen White and Martin Rosen came up with many centuries later to create a distorted hybrid of Judaism and Christianity. The infamous cult leader Herbert W Armstrong did something similar. Most of it emerged out of 19th and 20th century America.

Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

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