Can Salvation be lost?

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
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Verses 19-25 is exhortation that begins with the writer calling out to brethren and then continues the exhortation in verse 20, and 22 in the first person plural with the word US in connection to the way being consecrated and their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. Then again the writer in verse 23 councils in the 1st person plural that they including himself should hold fast their profession of faith without wavering because of God's faithfulness. Then continuing in the first person plural He says in verses 24 and 25 that they, including himself should provoke unto love and good works as they see the day approaching
Then Continuing In Verse 26 with the word FOR. Which means what is about to be said is the reason for what was previously stated. The writer continues in the 1st person plural continues to include himself in the admonition. How do we know? He uses the word we. Couple that with Verse 29 when he says that the sinning willfully individual was sanctified.

And it would fail us not to mention after the admonition in verse 26-30 the writer starts in verse 32 with the word but and then begins to exhort those to whom he is speaking. Calling them illuminated.

You can't be sanctified, made holy and not be saved. Because you are not sanctified, made holy unless you have been saved.

Incidentally these sanctified illuminated individuals are counseled to not cast away their confidence in verse 35 and within the same thought they are told that they are in need of patience, cheerful endurance. That after they done the will of God they MIGHT receive the promise. Which implies they MIGHT not receive the promise if they do not cheerfully endure.



Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
How does this relate to chapters 8 and 9?
 
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prophecy_uk

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In Romans 7 Paul admits to committing sin in his conflicting natures.

“For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


‬‬




Carnal is what men are, Apostle Paul compares men to how he now walks with Christ ( with God in us) and Spiritual is not sold under sin..


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.




Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?




Again man, does not do what he would, but does what he hates ( of sin)


Galatians 5 shows how to overcome this, by walking in the Spirit is to not dulfil the lusts of the flesh ( to not do the things you would)..


Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.



Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.




Then when man is carnal ( yet in the flesh) no good thing dwells in them ) Christ is not in them) as they cant find how to perform good. They do not do the good, but they do the evil.

But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God ( if the good) dwells in us, then we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. Strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man, strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, unto all patience, and long suffering ( enabled to do the good)


Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.


Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Colossians 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;





Carnal man, man that is in the flesh and not in the Spirit, delight in the law o God in their inward man.

Israel delight to know His ways, as a nation that did not and is not forsaking the ordinance of God, they take delight in approaching to God..




Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.




Carnal ( flesh) then see themselves brought into captivity to the law of sin in their members.

If anyone is in the Spirit ( to be Christ's) they bring every thought to the obedience of Christ, by casting down all that exalts itself against the knowledge of God into captivity.

The law of sin is yet in the non Spiritual person, otherwise why do they quote all of Romans 7 as example of their own captivity to the law of sin ?

But the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin....




Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
 
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prophecy_uk

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When they become a believer in Christ ( sincerely) they know before they were empty of any righteous fruit.

Christ makes them free from sin, to have holy fruit, and the unrighteousness ( sin) they did before they are now ASHAMED OF...



Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.



Then anyone who yet does unfruitful works of darkness, are reproved, it is a shame to speak of what they yet do.....


Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.




If these workers of darkness wont be reproved, that is understood why, they foam out their own shame, they are without fear, without fruit, and they feast with you, and are spots in your charity, but the beloved look for better, and are diligent to be found of Him in peace, without spot and blameless..


Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
 
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Danthemailman

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The writer continues in the 1st person plural continues to include himself in the admonition. How do we know? He uses the word we. Couple that with Verse 29 when he says that the sinning willfully individual was sanctified.

And it would fail us not to mention after the admonition in verse 26-30 the writer starts in verse 32 with the word but and then begins to exhort those to whom he is speaking. Calling them illuminated.

You can't be sanctified, made holy and not be saved. Because you are not sanctified, made holy unless you have been saved.

Incidentally these sanctified illuminated individuals are counseled to not cast away their confidence in verse 35 and within the same thought they are told that they are in need of patience, cheerful endurance. That after they done the will of God they MIGHT receive the promise. Which implies they MIGHT not receive the promise if they do not cheerfully endure.
Although the writer of Hebrews includes himself in this warning (if we sin willfully) note that he switches pronouns in Hebrews 10:29 to "he" and at the end of the chapter (Hebrews 10:39) the writer makes it clear that he considers himself a true believer by including himself in the "we" who do not "draw back to perdition." But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

Sanctified "set apart" in Hebrews 10:29 is not the same as "sanctified once for all" in Hebrews 10:14. The one proves eternal (Hebrews 10:14) and the other proves guilty of apostasy. (Hebrews 10:29) The writer of Hebrews said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So even though the reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a genuine Christian, this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses the word to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved. A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant "saved" in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

Again, in verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but then later renounces his identification with these other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with these Hebrew Christians was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

Throughout the book of Hebrews, we see "nominal" Christians mixed in with genuine Christians, like in Hebrews 4:1-2. For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which they heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

So it's not hard to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with genuine Christians in scripture and in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Although the writer of Hebrews includes himself in this warning (if we sin willfully) note that he switches pronouns in Hebrews 10:29 to "he" and at the end of the chapter (Hebrews 10:39) the writer makes it clear that he considers himself a true believer by including himself in the "we" who do not "draw back to perdition." But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

Sanctified "set apart" in Hebrews 10:29 is not the same as "sanctified once for all" in Hebrews 10:14. The one proves eternal (Hebrews 10:14) and the other proves guilty of apostasy. (Hebrews 10:29) The writer of Hebrews said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So even though the reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a genuine Christian, this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses the word to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved. A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant "saved" in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

Again, in verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but then later renounces his identification with these other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with these Hebrew Christians was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

Throughout the book of Hebrews, we see "nominal" Christians mixed in with genuine Christians, like in Hebrews 4:1-2. For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which they heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

So it's not hard to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with genuine Christians in scripture and in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.




All scripture is for instruction in righteousness that the man of God thoroughly furbished to all good works to be perfect, so they are all relevant to the ones who seek that way. Debate and talk, is against the faith, sadly I wont be saying it for much longer against all on this forum, till I will gladly ( for my own sake) be gone away soon.



2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
 
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HIM

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Debate and talk, is against the faith,
Whatever gave you that idea? We are not to quarrel or cause one another to sin. But sharing, contending and defending the faith through the Spirit of Christ in Christ is and will forever be until the culmination.
 
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HIM

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Verses 19-25 is exhortation that begins with the writer calling out to brethren and then continues the exhortation in verse 20, and 22 in the first person plural with the word US in connection to the way being consecrated and their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. Then again the writer in verse 23 councils in the 1st person plural that they including himself should hold fast their profession of faith without wavering because of God's faithfulness. Then continuing in the first person plural He says in verses 24 and 25 that they, including himself should provoke unto love and good works as they see the day approaching
Then Continuing In Verse 26 with the word FOR. Which means what is about to be said is the reason for what was previously stated. The writer continues in the 1st person plural continuing to include himself in the admonition. How do we know? He uses the word we. Couple that with Verse 29 when he says that the sinning willfully individual was sanctified.

And it would fail us not to mention after the admonition in verse 26-30 the writer starts in verse 32 with the word but and then begins to exhort those to whom he is speaking. Calling them illuminated.

You can't be sanctified, made holy and not be saved. Because you are not sanctified, made holy unless you have been saved.

Incidentally these sanctified illuminated individuals are counseled to not cast away their confidence in verse 35 and within the same thought they are told that they are in need of patience, cheerful endurance. That after they done the will of God they MIGHT receive the promise. Which implies they MIGHT not receive the promise if they do not cheerfully endure.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Although the writer of Hebrews includes himself in this warning (if we sin willfully) note that he switches pronouns in Hebrews 10:29 to "he" and at the end of the chapter (Hebrews 10:39) the writer makes it clear that he considers himself a true believer....
The writer of Hebrews in verses 19-26 speaks in the 1st person plural to saved individuals. Ones who have boldness to enter in the holiest of all through Christ, having the way consecrated before them, having Christ as their High Priest. These having a true heart, Their bodies washed with the pure , water and their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. With all that they are then consoled to HOLD FAST WITHOUT WAVERING, considering one another, provoking one another unto love and good works. To not forsake the assembling of ourselves together because we need one another as we see the Day approaching. With all that being said in the 1st person plural the writer continues in verse 26 with the first person plural beginning with the WORD FOR. THIS WORD WHEN USED MEANS WHAT IS ABOUT TO BE SAID IS THE REASON FOR WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY STATED.
These are all objective facts. As is the fact that if we are sinning willfully, we whom are sanctified, having the way consecrated before us. Our bodies washed with pure water and our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. We the brethren if we are sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only a certain fearful looking forward to to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversary, those whom are sinning willfully.




Sanctified "set apart" in Hebrews 10:29 is not the same as "sanctified once for all" in Hebrews 10:14. The one proves eternal (Hebrews 10:14) and the other proves guilty of apostasy.


(Hebrews 10:29) The writer of Hebrews said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So even though the reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a genuine Christian, this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation.
It appears to be because Sanctified is sanctified. What you are inferring dose not fit within the context, sentence structure and grammar. it has to be interjected.

Because they whom are being consoled to HOLD FAST WITHOUT WAVERING, to consider one another, to provoke one another unto love and good works. To not forsake the assembling of themselves together because they need one another as they see the Day approaching. Are then admonished in the 1st person plural. And as the writer continues in verse 26 with the first person plural he begins with the WORD FOR. THIS WORD WHEN USED MEANS WHAT IS ABOUT TO BE SAID IS THE REASON FOR WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY STATED. In other words he begins to admonish those whom are sanctified, washed, having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and the way consecrated before them not to be sinning willfully because they whom are sanctified would trampling under foot the Son of God and would be counting the blood of the covenant wherein they were sanctified an unholy thing because they have done despite unto the Spirit of grace.

As was said these are all objective facts. As is the fact that if we are sinning willfully, we whom are sanctified, having the way consecrated before us. Our bodies washed with pure water and our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. We the brethren, if we are sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversary, those whom are sinning willfully.
 
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Trivalee

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Salvation can be lost. The writer of Hebrews includes himself in the following Passage. How do we know? Because of the use of the word "we" in verse 26. In other words the writer thought that if He was sinning willingly he would have no more sacrifice for sins accredited to him. Only a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which would destroy the adversary, they that are sinning willingly.

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning willingly after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

The author of Hebrews has been debated since the 1st century. For me, the writing skill and prose suggests that the writer is Apostle Paul. My conviction is based on a couple of clues I found. See below:

Heb 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Now, it is arguable that Paul was not the only apostle that was often imprisoned, but if you consider the fact that this writer was (a) in prison when he wrote the epistle (b) was acquainted with Timothy; then it's not too much of a stretch to conclude that Paul wrote the epistle.

Timothy was Paul's protege and we have no record of him corroborating with any other senior apostle than Paul. The 64-million dollar question is, if Paul, why did he keep his identity secret in contrast to his other epistles? I don't claim to have all the answers but I speculate the reason is that his divine mandate was to the Gentiles.

However, having seen the challenges and persecution that Jewish converts faced in Rome and the potential danger of falling away from the faith, the writer (presumably Paul) was compelled to write and encourage them by revealing the superiority of the New Covenant established through the cross against the law-based practice of the Old Testament.

This is my personal view, others may have a different interpretation, of course.
 
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The present tense indicates this is their lifestyle. Such people practice sin. It describes a continual state of willful, deliberate sinning. Hebrews 10:26 (AMPC) - For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]. Such people are rejecting Christ deliberately.

*In contrast, in 1 John 3:9, we read - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It is too easy to misunderstand 1 John 3:9. We understand that to live a life devoid of sin (as the passage indicates) is what God expects of us. In reality, however, it is impracticable. To claim otherwise will be a promotion of "sinless perfection". And we all know that only ONE man, Jesus Christ, lived a sinless life.

If any believer claims that they have no sin since becoming born-again, (being a new creature old things/sin have passed away and all things have become new), I will clap for him. For me, despite being born-again I still struggle with sin due to the unremitting conflict between my spirit-man and my flesh (Gal 5:17; Rom 7:15-18). And the wretched man that I am, despite my better judgment my flesh sometimes prevail. Hence, I daily ask God for forgiveness.
 
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Danthemailman

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It is too easy to misunderstand 1 John 3:9. We understand that to live a life devoid of sin (as the passage indicates) is what God expects of us. In reality, however, it is impracticable. To claim otherwise will be a promotion of "sinless perfection". And we all know that only ONE man, Jesus Christ, lived a sinless life.

If any believer claims that they have no sin since becoming born-again, (being a new creature old things/sin have passed away and all things have become new), I will clap for him. For me, despite being born-again I still struggle with sin due to the unremitting conflict between my spirit-man and my flesh (Gal 5:17; Rom 7:15-18). And the wretched man that I am, despite my better judgment my flesh sometimes prevail. Hence, I daily ask God for forgiveness.
Indeed. Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
 
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prophecy_uk

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Whatever gave you that idea? We are not to quarrel or cause one another to sin. BUT sharing, CONTENDING and defending the faith through the Spirit of Christ in Christ IS AND WILL FOREVER BE until the culmination.





Defending the faith is done by as told, otherwise it is fulfilling the predictions of God how they only do for debate and CONTENTIONS..




Titus 3:9 But AVOID foolish questions, and genealogies, and CONTENTIONS, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, TO DO THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE NOT CONVENIENT;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; FULL OF ENVY, MURDER, DEBATE, DECEIT, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Trivalee: "If any believer claims that they have no sin since becoming born-again, (being a new creature old things/sin have passed away and all things have become new), I will clap for him. For me, despite being born-again I still struggle with sin due to the unremitting conflict between my spirit-man and my flesh (Gal 5:17; Rom 7:15-18)"





Where is the struggle in being strengthened to do all things by Christs power ( of you can believe)..




Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Ecclesiastes 7:19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men which are in the city.

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Colossians 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.







Indeed. Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)





The light is what we approach first ( if Jesus calls us to His light) and then the blood of Chriust cleans us of all sin, we confess our sins and we believe in Christ being just to forgive our sins, and to clean us of all unrighteousness ( do you see these words as confirming that Christ is the minister of sin?)...



1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.




We receive propitiation through faith in the blood of Christ, declaring His righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST ( this is to confess your sins, your past sins) that Christ is just and the justifier of those who believe in Jesus ( remember we receive strength and might if we can believe to now do ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST) and this is the law of FAITH...



Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


Now the blood of Christ is to purge your evil consciences, knowing the blood of Christ is without spot, from the dead works ( works of sin) o serve the living God in righteousness ( not serving in sin) but be washed in PURE water in a TRUE HEART, as Christ is not the minister of sin doctrines and beliefs, we are dead to the law ( of sin and death) so we can live unto God fulfilling the righteousness of Christ ( no longer the sin and lies of the devil any longer thanks)..




Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.







Trivalee: "And we all know that only ONE man, Jesus Christ, lived a sinless life."








You people can stick to your 2 verse doctrine, but it is all explained for everybody on the forum in entirety, or hear your own selves over God, but God has answered not to be mocked, or taken from or added to by anyone, we either see we be as Jesus or we just refuse to see it..




1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.


1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
 
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BNR32FAN

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Carnal is what men are, Apostle Paul compares men to how he now walks with Christ ( with God in us) and Spiritual is not sold under sin..


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.




Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?




Again man, does not do what he would, but does what he hates ( of sin)


Galatians 5 shows how to overcome this, by walking in the Spirit is to not dulfil the lusts of the flesh ( to not do the things you would)..


Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.



Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.




Then when man is carnal ( yet in the flesh) no good thing dwells in them ) Christ is not in them) as they cant find how to perform good. They do not do the good, but they do the evil.

But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God ( if the good) dwells in us, then we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. Strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man, strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, unto all patience, and long suffering ( enabled to do the good)


Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.


Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Colossians 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;





Carnal man, man that is in the flesh and not in the Spirit, delight in the law o God in their inward man.

Israel delight to know His ways, as a nation that did not and is not forsaking the ordinance of God, they take delight in approaching to God..




Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.




Carnal ( flesh) then see themselves brought into captivity to the law of sin in their members.

If anyone is in the Spirit ( to be Christ's) they bring every thought to the obedience of Christ, by casting down all that exalts itself against the knowledge of God into captivity.

The law of sin is yet in the non Spiritual person, otherwise why do they quote all of Romans 7 as example of their own captivity to the law of sin ?

But the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin....




Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You didn’t address the issue here. You explained what it means but didn’t address the fact that Paul says that he does evil even tho he doesn’t want to.

Your explanation also contradicts your claim that the apostles couldn’t be in Christ in the upper room since they were already doing good before that took place. They repented, they believed, and they followed Christ’s words.
 
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renniks

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There are differing views on salvation.

Some Christians believe that once saved, one cannot lose salvation. IOW, they believe that eternal life is guaranteed. On the flip side, there are those that believe that even though we are saved, we still have the risk of losing our and eternal life if we fail to abide in Christ until the end of our mortal life.

What is your position on this topic? Kindly support your case with relevant scriptures.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.


Obviously we can choose not to remain in Christ.
 
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HIM

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Verses 19-25 is exhortation that begins with the writer calling out to brethren and then continues the exhortation in verse 20, and 22 in the first person plural with the word US in connection to the way being consecrated and their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. Then again the writer in verse 23 councils in the 1st person plural that they including himself should hold fast their profession of faith without wavering because of God's faithfulness. Then continuing in the first person plural He says in verses 24 and 25 that they, including himself should provoke unto love and good works as they see the day approaching
Then Continuing In Verse 26 with the word FOR. Which means what is about to be said is the reason for what was previously stated. The writer continues in the 1st person plural continuing to include himself in the admonition. How do we know? He uses the word we. Couple that with Verse 29 when he says that the sinning willfully individual was sanctified.

And it would fail us not to mention after the admonition in verse 26-30 the writer starts in verse 32 with the word but and then begins to exhort those to whom he is speaking. Calling them illuminated.

You can't be sanctified, made holy and not be saved. Because you are not sanctified, made holy unless you have been saved.

Incidentally these sanctified illuminated individuals are counseled to not cast away their confidence in verse 35 and within the same thought they are told that they are in need of patience, cheerful endurance. That after they done the will of God they MIGHT receive the promise. Which implies they MIGHT not receive the promise if they do not cheerfully endure.



Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
How does this relate to chapters 8 and 9?
If you see an error in the post you responded to prove it.

The short answer to your question goes like this.
Chapter 8 speaks how God found fault in Israel in the first Covenant so Gave the second.
Chapter 9 speaks of the Sanctuary service and ministry being done away with in and through Christ and then begins to speak on How we are Sanctified by his blood.
Chapter 10 continues to speak on us being sanctified and then on how the New Covenant, the Law in our hearts and minds perfects us. Then in verse 26 it tells us if we are sinning willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth all we have to look forward to is God's indignation and wrath which shall devour the adversaries, the willfully sinning individual.
 
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HIM

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You didn’t address the issue here. You explained what it means but didn’t address the fact that Paul says that he does evil even tho he doesn’t want to.

Your explanation also contradicts your claim that the apostles couldn’t be in Christ in the upper room since they were already doing good before that took place. They repented, they believed, and they followed Christ’s words.
No you just missed it. Here is the verse again which states Paul has been delivered from not being able to help himself.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 
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Hammster

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If you see an error in the post you responded to prove it.

The short answer to your question goes like this.
Chapter 8 speaks how God found fault in Israel in the first Covenant so Gave the second.
Chapter 9 speaks of the Sanctuary service and ministry being done away with in and through Christ and then begins to speak on How we are Sanctified by his blood.
Chapter 10 continues to speak on us being sanctified and then on how the New Covenant, the Law in our hearts and minds perfects us. Then in verse 26 it tells us if we are sinning willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth all we have to look forward to is God's indignation and wrath which shall devour the adversaries, the willfully sinning individual.
If that’s how you view chapters 8 and 9, then there’s no amount of explanation I can give that you’ll agree with. Regardless of any argument to the contrary, your view is a works salvation in that there’s something you must do to stay saved.
 
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HIM

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One can not be saved by works.

We are Sanctified through the blood of Jesus. A purged conscience, our inner man from dead works; sin, acts that cause death. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for he had said before of this perfectness. For God has said He will put His laws in our hearts and in our minds, His Word in our hearts and mouths. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. That we may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know Jesus whom God sent. Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For He is Love and as he is, so are we in this world.

But if we are sinning willfully after we receive the knowledge of this truth all we have to look forward to is God's indignation and wrath which shall devour the adversaries, the willfully sinning individual.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
 
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Hammster

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Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

What it doesn’t say is that if you sin willfully after being saved. In the context of Hebrews, talking to folks who were still looking at the old covenant, he’s saying that their old sacrificial system is no longer valid. They can’t pick one or the other.
 
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