Purity Culture

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
Why does the promotion of Purity Culture, often symbolized as a kind of daughter-father prom where the daughter pledges her virginity to her father until married, only focus on girls, even within Christian communities? While it may not be said outright, being sexually active for boys/men is looked the other way. There is no son-mother dance where he pledges his virginity to his mom. Fornication is considered a sin, but it isn't addressed.

I then wonder, why would a girl want to not be sexually active waiting for a guy who isn't waiting for her to have sex at all?

If the girls are taught purity culture and boys aren't, who are the boys having sex with?

And what message does that teach boys as they become men?
 

GOD Shines Forth!

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 6, 2019
2,615
2,061
United States
✟355,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I’m not seeing that much "purity" out there among the young people I know. But to your OP, there will always persist a double standard where men can dally but women cannot. They will be seen as tainted.

Or "passed around" as I heard recently from a young man whose girlfriend left him to explore college life. He will not be celibate during this break, mind you, but he "cannot" accept her back if she has been active, too. Her activity is deemed "passed around".

It’s not fair but it persists.
 
Upvote 0

VirOptimus

A nihilist who cares.
Aug 24, 2005
6,814
4,421
53
✟250,677.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
-snip- Purity Culture, often symbolized as a kind of daughter-father prom where the daughter pledges her virginity to her father until married, -snip.

I find the whole concept incredibly creepy. Its (fortunatley) unheard of here (Sweden).
 
Upvote 0

spiritfilledjm

Well-known Member
Supporter
Apr 15, 2007
1,844
1,642
37
Indianapolis, Indiana
✟225,404.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Why does the promotion of Purity Culture, often symbolized as a kind of daughter-father prom where the daughter pledges her virginity to her father until married, only focus on girls, even within Christian communities? While it may not be said outright, being sexually active for boys/men is looked the other way. There is no son-mother dance where he pledges his virginity to his mom. Fornication is considered a sin, but it isn't addressed.

I then wonder, why would a girl want to not be sexually active waiting for a guy who isn't waiting for her to have sex at all?

If the girls are taught purity culture and boys aren't, who are the boys having sex with?

And what message does that teach boys as they become men?

To answer the first question, because boys don't typically want to dance with their mothers...

To give an overall answer:

Sounds like you need to find a different church. When I was a youth, we would have small groups with other teen boys and probably 75% of our discussions and teachings had to do with sexual temptation and purity. Being a man now, it's pretty much the same ratio. We talk about it all the time because sexual sin is so pervasive in men, we just keep it to ourselves.

Ultimately, the reason it is looked at so much in women is that, visually, they are much more likely to show that they aren't being completely "pure" due to views on dressing modestly whereas men are much more likely to dress with their bodies covered in jeans or shorts and a t-shirt or something.
 
Upvote 0

Paulos23

Never tell me the odds!
Mar 23, 2005
8,168
4,434
Washington State
✟309,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Purity culture is something I do not like since it treats girls as their father's possession to be given away. Most of the women I know have had to fight to take that control from their parents.

I don't understand why, nor I don't understand why women don't get a say in their own sex life or their own life for that matter.

I would like to think we have grown past that.
 
Upvote 0

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
To answer the first question, because boys don't typically want to dance with their mothers...

And girls want to dance with their fathers?
Anyway you look at it, the purity dance looks incestuous.

It seems like a patriarchal thing. Women were once seen as property of men. She was the father's property, and he's passing her to the husband, who will take ownership. Today, the bride is still "given away", but not the groom, because, being male, he is no one else's property.

Purity culture came way after my time. While it was discussed, it was a Lutheran Church with people with Norwegian heritage, basically The Frozen Chosen who don't discuss things like sex, and when they do, everyone is uncomfortable.

Most of what I see on youtube channels is either Christians talking about why Purity culture is not a good thing, or promoted and mostly to women, with teachings like: Men are to be in control of decisions, the money, everything but are unable to control their sexual urges, and so men's lust or behavior is the woman's fault. Wow.
 
Upvote 0

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
I’m not seeing that much "purity" out there among the young people I know. But to your OP, there will always persist a double standard where men can dally but women cannot. They will be seen as tainted.

Or "passed around" as I heard recently from a young man whose girlfriend left him to explore college life. He will not be celibate during this break, mind you, but he "cannot" accept her back if she has been active, too. Her activity is deemed "passed around".

It’s not fair but it persists.

What I can't understand is any woman that would put up with that, or why she would wait for someone who is being a man harlot.

Just having the double standard would make me Beyonce the guy right there - to the left, to left, because if he has that belief now, when he's married, he will probably cheat with random hookups, strippers, and think his wife just waits at home.
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

Episcopalian
Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,235
4,910
Indiana
✟931,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I have always found it a bit strange as well as being one-sided. Perhaps my biggest problem is expecting youth to make a promise at such a young age, a promise that will go unmet by some - but one made to please their parents nonetheless.

A "thing" in my community when I was in the 4th or 5th grade was WCTU meetings - Women's Christian Temperance Union. They convened meetings with us extolling the evils of alcohol and tobacco. The culmination, of which, was the pledge we took, remembered to this day:

I promise, God helping me, never to buy, drink, sell, or give alcohol liquor while I live. From all tobacco I'll abstain and never take God's name in vain.
After that, I'm pretty suspect of pledges made by minors to please grown-ups. I didn't do so good at it.
 
Upvote 0

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
Purity culture is something I do not like since it treats girls as their father's possession to be given away. Most of the women I know have had to fight to take that control from their parents.

I don't understand why, nor I don't understand why women don't get a say in their own sex life or their own life for that matter.

I would like to think we have grown past that.

Right? But we romanticize the bride, the focus is on her, not the couple, and her father giving her away is something she does without understanding its origins.

The God is Grey youtube channel talk about it in response to other channels promoting it, there are the creepy Prom-like pictures from the dance Trump was at, and most recently, the Cleveland show, where he tries to get his daughter to pledge her virginity, and when his son does instead, Cleveland gets angry, and tells his son he is embarrassed that Cleveland Jr is still a virgin. He's probably 12.

So, I have seen it a lot recently. And if it tied to Christianity, seems that promoting for men and women would be much closer to scripture than just women.

I remember seeing a Diamond commercial, and the bride is dancing with her father, and the father says, "I thought I was the man of your life..." and I can't help but think of Nat'l Lampoon's Vacation:
"I french kiss."
"So. Everybody does."
"Yeah, but daddy says I do it the best."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
After that, I'm pretty suspect of pledges made by minors to please grown-ups. I didn't do so good at it.

I've often felt the same about Lutheran Confirmation. You take extra Sunday School-like classes, and then confirm at 14 that you will follow Jesus, followed by a reception at your house and cash gifts.

Once confirmed, a number of people that were in my Sunday School classes since I was 3 or 4 suddenly stop coming to church after the confirmation, or come at Christmas and Easter.

But what are you going to say to your parents if you don't believe in God anymore? For that matter, I have always had a relationship with God, but had to read my essay about why I have decided to follow Jesus It was full of fluff. I wrote things to sound serious, to sound deep, to impress my family listening, but none of it really came from the heart because I didn't know what following Jesus or confirming my faith meant. It was simply something that I always knew, like my gramma baking kringla.
 
Upvote 0

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
I find the whole concept incredibly creepy. Its (fortunatley) unheard of here (Sweden).

In the US, we say children are innocent because of their ignorance of sex. Losing one's innocence often means to gain carnal knowledge, and when you enter puberty.

On Modern Family, one of the daughters mishears her father, and laughs, then says, "oh, I thought you said Haley was a virgin." The father gets upset, realizing his little girl is now sexually active. She's also 20, but even admits he wants her to stay his little girl.

So, rather than celebrate your little girl becoming a woman, because of the stupid manmade double standard, where boys do, but good girls don't, the fathers put their daughters in a symbolic tower, where the can be thought of as nonsexual, and so, still a little girl. That has to mess up a girl's head.
 
Upvote 0

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
I have a strong memory of a play that was done at the Guthrie Theater when I worked there. Theatre de la Jeune Lune director directed a play where the princess disguises herself as a boy to try and discover the plan of man trying to usurp the throne. Her aid is telling her that she should marry the Prince for the sake of the kingdom. She discloses not having any sexual knowledge or experience, and adds that if that is what men expect of women, that is also what she expects of her husband:"I want a virgin for a husband." The audience laughs. That's why I remember it so well - because a reasonable request is met with laughter, a kind of "good luck with that" response, while some men still hold that double standard, and don't see its hypocrisy nor ridiculousness.
 
Upvote 0

spiritfilledjm

Well-known Member
Supporter
Apr 15, 2007
1,844
1,642
37
Indianapolis, Indiana
✟225,404.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
And girls want to dance with their fathers?
Anyway you look at it, the purity dance looks incestuous.

It seems like a patriarchal thing. Women were once seen as property of men. She was the father's property, and he's passing her to the husband, who will take ownership. Today, the bride is still "given away", but not the groom, because, being male, he is no one else's property.

Purity culture came way after my time. While it was discussed, it was a Lutheran Church with people with Norwegian heritage, basically The Frozen Chosen who don't discuss things like sex, and when they do, everyone is uncomfortable.

Most of what I see on youtube channels is either Christians talking about why Purity culture is not a good thing, or promoted and mostly to women, with teachings like: Men are to be in control of decisions, the money, everything but are unable to control their sexual urges, and so men's lust or behavior is the woman's fault. Wow.

A father giving a daughter away is nothing more than a symbol of transferring the responsibility of the daughter to her husband, because, Biblically, that's how it's supposed to be.

As with anything, delivery is key. Is encouraging our children and teaching them what the Bible says about chastity and purity wrong? No. Is telling them that they are worthless if they lose their virginity before marriage? Yes.

I mean, arranged or semi-arranged marriage was the norm up until the last 150 years or so. Parents would come together and discuss the proposition of marriage, especially if the families didn't know each other. If the families didn't support the union than the couple usually wouldn't get married but may have run off together and elope sometimes. Many cultures still do arrange marriages and the groom's family will still pay a dowery but that is usually supposed to go to the wife anyway. Typically the woman still has a say in whether to marry the man or not.

I've seen some videos on "purity culture" as well and while the concern about making the children feel worthless is valid, a lot of videos I've seen are basically against any and all talk about remaining pure until marriage. These are from Christian content creators, younger content creators. I view this as nothing more than the enemy slowly winning this battle.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: RDKirk
Upvote 0

Paulos23

Never tell me the odds!
Mar 23, 2005
8,168
4,434
Washington State
✟309,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
A father giving a daughter away is nothing more than a symbol of transferring the responsibility of the daughter to her husband, because, Biblically, that's how it's supposed to be.
It is still treating the woman as property, and most of the women I know are responsible for themselves and had to fight for that in some cases. They don't need a man to take responsibility for them.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
I've seen some videos on "purity culture" as well and while the concern about making the children feel worthless is valid, a lot of videos I've seen are basically against any and all talk about remaining pure until marriage. These are from Christian content creators, younger content creators. I view this as nothing more than the enemy slowly winning this battle.

I agree and don't. I can bet you that any single person in your congregation that is 25 and older is most definitely sexually active, and since a lot of people don't marry until the are 25 or 27 or 30, that's an impractically long time to wait. But then again, if women being being virgins until married is stressed and men being virgins is downplayed if addressed at all is an antiquated double standard that we as Christians should stop playing into, as well as society as a whole.

With God is Grey, for example, she talks about the harm and fear it caused, and as you said, claiming that women (but not men) are somehow devalued if the have had sex before they get married isn't right. And having a "well, boys will be boys" attitude that encourages boys and men to have as much sex as they want, with whomever they want, also teaches boys that there are bad girls (girls willing to have sex with them) and good girls, the ones they will marry who are waiting for them to settle down. The host of GIG even talked about how confusing it was after she was married, because part of her identity was her virginity, so she even felt guilt even after marriage.

If purity and chasteness is taught, it should be to both genders, the expectation of both genders. The idea that men can't control themselves also needs to stop, and men take responsibility for their own thoughts, words, and actions.
 
Upvote 0

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
It is still treating the woman as property, and most of the women I know are responsible for themselves and had to fight for that in some cases. They don't need a man to take responsibility for them.

My oldest sister and I had a conversation about this in regards to my other sister, who "submits to her husband" who makes the decisions, and has the last word. When that was written, women were literally thought to be the husband's property, but because we don't see wives that way, I believe a healthier relationship is where the two work together as a team.

I remember a visiting pastor at s pentecostal church who told a story about one man offering another a choice of one of his horses. He said he would decide by tomorrow, and discuss it with his wife that evening. The man with the horses then rescinded the offer, because he didn't make a decision, but consulted his wife. I kept thinking how awful it would be to be married to the pastor, who probably treats his wife the way he treats his children, making decisions for her.

I remember having a discussion at 5 with my mom, telling her that whomever I married I wanted to be my partner, to make decisions together so we are both happy. I didn't want to marry someone whom I viewed as my servant. My mom was a little troubled, being bery old skool where women care for the kids and house, the father makes money, and you only speak when spoken to. As a result, younger fathers make a point of talking to their children and being more involved in their lives, and couples share household chores since sometimes both work. I can't see that as bad but as progress, as honoring one's wife as an equal.

My oldest brother is a pastor, and at a seminar, the speaker was talking about our generations role models of mother and father. The speaker says, "How many of you can relate to this:You call your dad:
Hello?
Happy Father Day, Dad!
Well, Thanks. I appreciate it.
How have you been?
Can't complain. (awkward silence) Want to talk to your mother?
 
Upvote 0

TheWhat?

Ate all the treats
Jul 3, 2021
1,297
532
SoCal
✟31,435.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I suspect a bit of machismo at work. I get it though, it's culture. Best to let them be and be left alone yourself, as long as nobody is getting hurt.

Honestly I'm torn on the subject. I, like you, have a sincere disdain for the idea of treating a woman like a child or like property. I was raised in a modernistic household though, definitely not old school.

But, in retrospect, secular women have been kind of hateful toward men in my experience. Not much marriageable material there. To make matters worse, if you turn toward the old school kind of people, they will hate you for not being old school, unless you get lucky and find one who wants to "rescue" you. The reasons people find to hate people these days is actually kind of absurd, but, whatever, I'm done with it lol.
 
Upvote 0

Clizby WampusCat

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2019
3,657
892
54
Texas
✟109,913.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
A father giving a daughter away is nothing more than a symbol of transferring the responsibility of the daughter to her husband, because, Biblically, that's how it's supposed to be.
If a man comes to me and wants my "blessing" or permission for him to marry my daughter, I would tell him to go ask my daughter, it is not my decision to make. She is a person that can think for herself. If she wants to ask me my advice I would give it but until then I trust her to know what she wants out of her life. Although I would be worried about the marriage and my daughter if the man thinks my daughter is my property or under my direction as an adult.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums