Can An Evangelical Sunday Worshiper Actually Become a Seven Day Adventist: Its More Than Just The D

Mclachlan said:

Do you really agree that the imputed righteousness of Christ is your only hope?

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Of course for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *Romans 3:9-20. Without Christ we have no righteousness. We are all sinners in need of Gods' salvation standing guilty before God under condemnation and death. We are saved by Gods' grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not or works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. What do you think post 74 linked is talking about? Does receiving God's gift of grace and righteousness (forgiveness) through faith mean that we are now free to continue practicing known unrepentant sin *Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 2:3-4 Romans 6:1-23; Hebrews 10:26-31?

LoveGodsWord said:

Of course for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *Romans 3:9-20. We have no righteousness. What do you think post 74 linked is talking about? Does receiving God's gift of grace and righteousness (forgiveness) through faith mean that we continue practicing known unrepentant sin *Romans 3:31?

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The answer to your question is no. Romans 6:1-2. Have you actually read the book of Romans without viewing it through the lens of SDA doctrine? Serious question.

Mclachlan said:

The answer to your question is no. Romans 6:1. Have you actually read the book of Romans without viewing it through the lens of SDA doctrine? Serious question.

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May I also ask, what do you think post 74 linked is talking about?

Mclachlan said:

The answer to your question is no. Romans 6:1-2. Have you actually read the book of Romans without viewing it through the lens of SDA doctrine? Serious question.

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Thanks good answer for one of those questions. If we are not to continue living in a life of known unrepentant sin and according to the scriptures after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following Gods' Word *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and Romans 14:23. Why is it ok to break Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken?

It's not okay to break the 4th commandment. In the Old Testament, the Israelites were punished severely for disobeying the sabbath.

Mclachlan said:

Have you actually read the book of Romans without viewing it through the lens of SDA doctrine? Serious question.

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In answer to your question the answer is yes of course. I do not read the bible through the lens of SDA doctrine. Did you read my personal testimony here linked?

LoveGodsWord said:

Thanks good answer for one of those questions. If we are not to continue living in a life of known unrepentant sin and according to the scriptures sin is breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following Gods' Word *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 and Romans 14:23. Why is it ok to break Gods' 4th commandment which is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken?

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Please clarify.

What, in your view, ... constitutes the breaking of the 4th commandment ?

You've already agreed that it has nothing to do with assembly ...

A_Thinker said:

Please clarify. What, in your view, ... constitutes the breaking of the 4th commandment ? You've already agreed that it has nothing to do with assembly ...

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Sure you quoted Leviticus 23 which is in regards to the annual Feast days. This is not a quote from Gods' 4th commandment from the 10 commandments. Do you know what a holy convocation is in Leviticus 23? The answer to your question is in reading what the scriptures says in Gods' 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11.

Exodus 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

Genesis 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNNECESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

Exodus 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Mark 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

Matthew 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Mark 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exodus 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Exodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matthew 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts of the Apostles 16:13; Matthew 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Exodus 34:14; 1Kings 9:6; Revelation 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 16:22-23; Matthew 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in following any of God's Laws including the SABBATH if it is not done through faith that works by love because it is only as God writes His Law to love in our hearts that we can take up our beds to follow him. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who believe and follow God's Word (Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:3-4)

God bless

It's not wrong to isolate the sabbath as sin but Jesus talked about the deeper implications of the law.
For example we would all be lying if we said we've never looked with lust. We commit adultery.
Because it is impossible to keep the law, the standard God requires is his own perfect character. Matthew 5:48.

Mclachlan said:

It's not wrong to isolate the sabbath as sin but Jesus talked about the deeper implications of the law.
For example we would all be lying if we said we've never looked with lust. We commit adultery.
Because it is impossible to keep the law, the standard God requires is his own perfect character. Matthew 5:48.

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Jesus is talking about Gods new covenant promise to those who believe and follow what Gods' Word from Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and why Jesus says to Nicodemus in John 3:3-7 Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus came to magnify God’s 10 commandment from the inside out quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (applying adultery and murder to our thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our rightouesness exceeds the rightouesness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. Evil (moral wrong doing) begins in the heart. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart according to Jesus is what defiles a man in Matthew 15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28.

Jesus magnified the law to the inside out. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have God’s new covenant promise to of a new heart to love and why we need to be born again by faith in God's Word for salvation to be free from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10.

This is leading to the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; John 5:42; 1 John 5:17-19; 1 John 4:16; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:8. Without Jesus we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. We need to be born of God to love *1 John 4:7 and partake of the new covenant promise. This is why Jesus teaches in *John 3:3-7 that unless we are made clean from the inside out and born again to love we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's law from the inside out and applying God’s 10 commandments to our very thoughts.

Whosoever is born of God to love in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12 does not practice committing sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Matthew 22:36-40. This is the good news of the gospel in the new covenant. We have a Saviour to save us from sin (not in sin) *see John 8:31-36 making us free to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4.

1 John 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are born again to love and it is love that fulfills God's law in all those who believe and follow god's word in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God’s law (10 commandments) from the inside out. *Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 8:10-12. Unless we are born again to love we cannot enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7.

See also what John says in 1 John 5:2-4 when he says; By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

This is God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 of salvation from sin in all those who have been born again of the Spirit into God's new covenant promise to receive a new heart to love. Those who are born again according to Jesus and John do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9 because those who practice sin from the heart and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:6-10; John 3:3-7; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. God's salvation and good new gospel is salvation from sin. Not salvation to continue in sin. If we continue in sin we will die (Romans 8:13; Hebrews 10:26-31).

John 8:31-36
[31] If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord said:

Sure you quoted Leviticus 23 which is in regards to the annual Feast days. This is not a quote from Gods' 4th commandment from the 10 commandments. Do you know what a holy convocation is in Leviticus 23? The answer to your question is in reading what the scriptures says in Gods' 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11.

Exodus 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

Genesis 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNNECESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

Exodus 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Mark 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

Matthew 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Mark 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exodus 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Exodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matthew 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts of the Apostles 16:13; Matthew 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Exodus 34:14; 1Kings 9:6; Revelation 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 16:22-23; Matthew 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in following any of God's Laws including the SABBATH if it is not done through faith that works by love because it is only as God writes His Law to love in our hearts that we can take up our beds to follow him. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who believe and follow God's Word (Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:3-4)

God bless

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So ... a few points from your response ...

You agree ... that it is good to do good on the Sabbath (in agreement with Jesus' own teachings)

That it is good to reserve the day for rest and relaxation with one's family.

That it is good to use the day to reflect upon the things of God ... and one's relationship with Him.

Would the above be adequate in your understanding for honoring the Sabbath ?

Sounds like a typical American Saturday ...

A_Thinker said:

So ... a few points from your response ...

You agree ... that it is good to do good on the Sabbath (in agreement with Jesus' own teachings)

That it is good to reserve the day for rest and relaxation with one's family.

That it is good to use the day to reflect upon the things of God ... and one's relationship with Him.

Would the above be adequate in your understanding for honoring the Sabbath ?

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A detailed response was provided in post # 150 linked with supporting scripture.

Human effort to obey God's law in both a regenerate state and an unregenerate state is impossible.

This is the cry of Paul in Philippians 3.

...as to righteousness under the law, blameless. 7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

What Paul is essentially saying to the 'dogs' and 'evildoers' (Philippians 3:2) (Judaizer's boasting in the law of Moses who insist on obeying parts of it for salvation) is "you can keep your human efforts, you can boast in your circumcision or sabbath keeping. I have a greater boast.
I don't need to work for my salvation. My efforts to establish my own righteousness by obeying God's law are worthless. I have an eternally superior ambition to know God and trust only in his righteousness which I can never obtain by my own efforts."

The verses themselves speak louder than my paraphrase. Worth a close reading.

Mclachlan said:

Human effort to obey God's law in both a regenerate state and an unregenerate state is impossible.

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Actually no. Romans 7 is talking about the unregenerate man of sin, the law of sin and death working in His members, carnal mind. That is, all we can do without Christ is sin because we have a sinful human nature (carnal mind; the flesh). This is why Jesus says unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven in John 3:3-7 and again "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing." - John 15:4-5 and again "Whosoever abides in me sins not whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him." - 1 John 3:6 as those who are born again from the inside out into God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) do not practice sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:6-9.

Paul continues from the unregenerate man of Romans 7:1-24 to the regenerate (born again) man...

Romans 7:25 [25], I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1-10
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5], For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6], For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7], Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8], So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9], But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10], And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

..................

The above agreeing with John

1 John 3:6-9
[6], Whoever abides in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Take Care

@LoveGodsWord Like the other forum, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I gather you've read the following passage many times as you are well equipped with scripture verses. Within the given context, Paul is making a profound statement to those who insist on obedience to the law of Moses as a requirement for salvation.
Galatians 3:10-14

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
It is a warning for both of us to take care.

Mclachlan said:

@LoveGodsWord Like the other forum, we are going to have to agree to disagree. This conversation is not profitable. I think it is fair to say that.

I gather you've read the following passage many times as you are well equipped with scripture verses. Within the given context, Paul is making profound statement to those who insist on obedience to the law of Moses as a requirement for salvation.
Galatians 3:10-14

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

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Yet no one is telling you to rely on the works of the law. This seems to be where your misunderstanding is. I am not sure how you feel quoting the scriptures above are relevant to our conversation but so there is no misunderstandings here as to what I believe let me tell you again. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins. According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law therefore is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Therefore says Jesus you shall know them (who is from God and who is not) by their fruit. *Matthew 7:16-20; John 15:1-6; 1 John 2:3-4.

Now what is it from the scriptures provided here that you do not believe and why?

.

Mclachlan said:

It's not okay to break the 4th commandment. In the Old Testament, the Israelites were punished severely for disobeying the sabbath.

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True and yes, the Israelites. Now if the sabbath day law is still in effect today, then according to (Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Numbers 15:32-36), anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

So who is going to enforce that today? The Jewish synagogue, the Seventh day Adventist church or perhaps law enforcement? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant of law, no sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

Danthemailman said:

True and yes, the Israelites. Now if the sabbath day law is still in effect today, then according to (Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Numbers 15:32-36), anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

So who is going to enforce that today? The Jewish synagogue, the Seventh day Adventist church or perhaps law enforcement? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant of law, no sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

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Actually the claims being made in this post I believe are not true or relevant to us now and misleading, but let me explain why from the scriptures if it might be helpful to the discussion here. The reason why this is not relevant now is because we are in the new covenant now and not under the old covenant civil laws only given to the physical nation of Israel.

In the new covenant God's true Israel is no longer only those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham who have faith in Christ *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 2:28-29 but are now all those who through faith have been born of the Spirit *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9 into God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). Unbelieving Israel in the flesh of the seed of Abraham according to the scriptures have been cut out of Gods true Israel for rejecting Christ as the promised Messiah under the new covenant (see Romans 11:15-21). According to the scripture all believers are now one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-13; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13 and are a part of God's true Israel according to the new covenant scriptures. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. Therefore if we are not a part of God's true Israel grafted in by faith in the new covenant, we have no part in God's new covenant promise which was only ever given to God's Israel who are now all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. God never made a covenant with gentiles according to the scriptures (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). Gods' true Israel therefore under the new covenant promise are now all those who through faith through faith in Christ who have been born again and set free to walk in Gods Spirit to believe and follow what Gods' Word says (see Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16 and 1 John 3:6-10).

Also, according to the scriptures, these death penalties were not unique to the Sabbath but were applied to most of God’s 10 commandments and were a part of the civil laws of Moses given to the nation of Israel for anyone openly or publicly caught breaking Gods' 10 commandments to help teach God’s people that the wages of sin is death as also shown in the new covenant to all who have sinned (Romans 6:23).

The same death penalty was given to anyone who was caught breaking 1st Commandment (Exodus 20:3), Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Deuteronomy 17:1-5; 14:6-10; Exodus 22:20); 2nd Commandment, (Exodus 20:4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any idols (Exodus 20:4; Deuteronomy 27: 15); 3rd Commandment (Exodus 20:7), Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain (Leviticus 24:16); 4th Commandment Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11) see Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; 5th commandment (Exodus 20:12) honor your father and mother see Exodus 21:15-17; 6th commandment thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20:13) see Leviticus 24:17; Numbers 35:31-33; 7th commandment thou shalt not commit Adultery (Exodus 20:14) see Leviticus 20:10; John 8:3-5; 8th Commandment thou shall not steal (Exodus 20:15) but only applied to man stealing or kidnapping (Exodus 21:16); 9th commandment (Exodus 20:16) thou shall not bear false witness see Deuteronomy 19:15-21 and the 10th commandments thou shall not covet (Exodus 20:17) see Joshua 7:21-25.

This of course all ceased during the time of Christ when Israel was under Roman rule and law and at the death of Christ bringing an end to the old covenant and the bringing in of the new covenant. The death penalty is still in force today because it is written that the wages of sin is death for those that do not repent before the time of judgement is finished (Romans 6:23; James 2:8-12) but enforcement of the death penalty does not take place until the second coming (see Psalms 9:17; Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 3:6; Revelation 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8 etc etc)

The only difference today is that we are in the new covenant now so we no longer put people to open death because we are not in the physical nation of Israel in the flesh or under the old covenant civil laws of Israel. The death penalty for sin is still the same however for those who reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23 but Jesus says now that Vengeance is mine and his reward will be with him at the 2nd coming *Romans 12:19-21; Revelation 22:12. God's Word does not teach or support the false doctrine of lawlessness (without law) and Gods' 4th commandment in the new covenant is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Exodus 20:8-10; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

Hope this is helpful.

Danthemailman said:

True and yes, the Israelites. Now if the sabbath day law is still in effect today, then according to (Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Numbers 15:32-36), anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

So who is going to enforce that today? The Jewish synagogue, the Seventh day Adventist church or perhaps law enforcement? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant of law, no sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

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Absolutely correct. Hence, the pro-Law crowd end up doing some mighty fine theologizing their way around their problem. The typical solution is to ignore all but ten of the OT commandments and then adjust even them to fit reality (somewhat).