Why are highly educated and trained professionals refusing to vaccinate?

pitabread said:

Except for the tens of thousands of dead people. They're not living in anything. :/

Click to expand...

Did you know that 869.7 per 100,000 people die in the US every single day according to the CDC?

Did you know that the vast majority of those under the age of 65 have a much higher risk of dying from a myriad of other causes than COVID?

Why this myopic focus on COVID? It's like all of a sudden everyone became aware of their mortality and they're now afraid to live because they might die.

stevil said:

For people that are interested in "natural medicines" I certainly would advise them to investigate what evidence based studies

Click to expand...

Unless they happen to have been done by the same company that sells the drug...

pitabread said:

Dead people don't have to worry.

Click to expand...

Last year at Christmas, the Washington Post reported that 5 people die from COVID in the time you hear White Christmas on the radio. Was that your idea?

I don't know if you're aware, but the vast majority (like >99%) of people who contract COVID will recover. It's not the death sentence you're presenting it to be.

probinson said:

Why this myopic focus on COVID? It's like all of a sudden everyone became aware of their mortality and they're now afraid to live because they might die.

Click to expand...

a) It's making people more ill and dead than would otherwise occur.

b) A sudden surge in ill and dying people puts strain on health services that impacts others.

probinson said:

Did you know that 869.7 per 100,000 people die in the US every single day according to the CDC?

Click to expand...

Did you know that at the peak, 3,500 people were dying every single day from COVID?

It was not only the #1 cause of death, but was killing roughly 4 times as many people as all other causes combined.

rambot said:

If they didn't help health professionals wouldn't wear them, hands down.

Click to expand...

That's not quite as settled as you seem to imply;



I do realize that study is 6+ years old though, so it's probably not relevant. For some reason.

probinson said:

I don't know if you're aware, but the vast majority (like >99%) of people who contract COVID will recover. It's not the death sentence you're presenting it to be.

Click to expand...

Chance of recovery largely depends on one's age, relative health, etc. If one is older, immunocompromised, or other health issues, they're the ones to die.

Tough luck for Granny, I guess.

Plus, there's also COVID long-haulers. Survival doesn't mean one survives unscathed. It can have potentially devastating effects on one's quality of life including lasting brain damage: COVID-19 long-haulers report long-lasting cognitive impairment

rjs330 said:

Yet the Bible says that those who do that are not Christians. Now you are misrepresenting God's word. Shame on you.

Click to expand...

The problem is, I’m not. They say they are Christians and this board says you can’t say they aren’t. You can’t see into their heart. The thief on the cross accepts Jesus and nothing he did matters. If Hitler accepted Jesus as Lord in his head before the bullet went through it, he’s in heaven right now. There is literally nothing you could do that isn’t taken care of by asking Jesus to forgive you. Nothing stops you from going back to the same actions. Your religion gives you cover to have a complete and total disregard for your fellow man by taking actions that continue the pandemic and you get say only your deity can judge you and then your deity won’t do it because you aren’t held accountable.

essentialsaltes said:

Did you know that at the peak, 3,500 people were dying every single day from COVID?

It was not only the #1 cause of death, but was killing roughly 4 times as many people as all other causes combined.

Click to expand...

Did you know that some counties overcomunted their COVID deaths by as much as 25%? I suspect other locations would have similar results in an audit;
https://oaklandside.org/2021/06/04/alameda-countys-new-covid-death-toll-is-25-lower-than-thought/

probinson said:

Did you know that some counties overcomunted their COVID deaths by as much as 25%? I suspect other locations would have similar results in an audit;
https://oaklandside.org/2021/06/04/alameda-countys-new-covid-death-toll-is-25-lower-than-thought/

Click to expand...

Studies that have looked at the numbers in aggregate generally report that the U.S. appears to have undercounted COVID-19 deaths, at least based on excess mortality rates.

pitabread said:

Chance of recovery largely depends on one's age, relative health, etc. If one is older, immunocompromised, or other health issues, they're the ones to die.

Click to expand...

Yes, their mortality is higher, somewhere closer to 95% of that population will recover.

pitabread said:

Tough luck for Granny, I guess.

Click to expand...

Well, my 84-year old, diabetic father had COVID right before Christmas last year. He was hospitalized for 2 days due to dehydration. Felt sick for about 2 weeks. Recovered fully. Again, contracting COVID is NOT a death sentence for most people, even those at elevated risk.

pitabread said:

Plus, there's also COVID long-haulers. Survival doesn't mean one survives unscathed. It can have potentially devastating effects on one's quality of life including lasting brain damage: COVID-19 long-haulers report long-lasting cognitive impairment

Click to expand...

I wondered how long it would be before someone introduced "Long COVID". What you really mean to say in most cases is "post-viral syndrome", which is nothing new. For some reason, people sometimes have lingering effects after they fight off a virus.

But the origins of "Long COVID" are quite dubious;

Opinion | The Dubious Origins of Long Covid

We need to start thinking more critically about long Covid - STAT

pitabread said:

Studies that have looked at the numbers in aggregate generally report that the U.S. appears to have undercounted COVID-19 deaths, at least based on excess mortality rates.

Click to expand...

The failure to make a clear distinction between deaths FROM COVID and deaths WITH COVID resulted in an over counting of deaths in at least two counties that publicly announced their audit results. I suspect that if we were to audit other places, we'd find similar results.

"Cause of death" isn't as straightforward as one might think. But the pandemic muddied the waters considerably. Stage 4 cancer patient in hospice tests positive for COVID one day before they die? COVID! Yeah, not really. But many such deaths were included in the COVID count. This is why numbers were revised down;

probinson said:

The failure to make a clear distinction between deaths FROM COVID and deaths WITH COVID resulted in an over counting of deaths in at least two counties that publicly announced their audit results. I suspect that if we were to audit other places, we'd find similar results.

"Cause of death" isn't as straightforward as one might think. But the pandemic muddied the waters considerably. Stage 4 cancer patient in hospice tests positive for COVID one day before they die? COVID! Yeah, not really. But many such deaths were included in the COVID count. This is why numbers were revised down;

“There are definitely people who died from reasons that were clearly not caused by COVID,”​

Click to expand...

Which is again why excess mortality is used as a measure of the true impact of the pandemic. And the excess mortality is significant.

probinson said:

Did you know that 869.7 per 100,000 people die in the US every single day according to the CDC?

Did you know that the vast majority of those under the age of 65 have a much higher risk of dying from a myriad of other causes than COVID?

Why this myopic focus on COVID? It's like all of a sudden everyone became aware of their mortality and they're now afraid to live because they might die.

Click to expand...

I know! A highly contagious virus kills off 4,550,000,000 human beings and people just freak out and focus their efforts to eradicate it instead of just ignoring it. What a bizarre thing.

essentialsaltes said:

Did you know that at the peak, 3,500 people were dying every single day from COVID?

It was not only the #1 cause of death, but was killing roughly 4 times as many people as all other causes combined.

Click to expand...

Um, no.

According to the CDC, heart disease accounts for 659,041 deaths. Distributed evenly across the year, that's 1,805 deaths/day.

Cancer accounts for 599,601 deaths. That's 1,642 deaths/day.

We can stop right there, because that alone totals 3,447 deaths/day.

And that was pretty short-lived. Daily death numbers from COVID were only at that level for about a month. I suppose if you cherry-pick when the daily death count was that high and ignore all other data surrounding it both before and after, your "#1 cause of death" statement would be correct. But it's still pretty misleading.

Belk said:

I know! A highly contagious virus kills off 4,550,000,000 human beings and people just freak out and focus their efforts to eradicate it instead of just ignoring it. What a bizarre thing.

Click to expand...

Generally speaking, it's a good idea to do cost/benefit analysis when it comes to mitigation measures. This site offers up a somber picture not of what COVID has done to humanity, but the collateral damage of the public health measures and policies have done that will be felt for years to come long after the pandemic is a bad memory.

Weirdly enough, we're finding out that locking down the world for a year has significant repercussions. Whodathunkit?

https://collateralglobal.org

hislegacy said:

We got that the first six times.

Click to expand...

I don't believe you have.

There just is not an agreement on its accuracy. I don’t think repeating again will make it more accepted.

Click to expand...

Maybe, if I repeat it sufficiently you'll have time to read it and comprehend it.

rjs330 said:

Therefore you are a better Christian?

Click to expand...

Did I say that? No. But if one is a Christian then helping people by doing a modest bit of work like wearing a mask is a no-brainer.

By attacking believers

Click to expand...

You mean by attacking people I honestly believe are possibly causing harm during a pandemic?

who don't believe that masks are effective while holding up your own standard as being the rational and conservative you are saying you are better than them.

Click to expand...

Usually rational responses ARE superior to irrational responses.

Especially when the bible doesn't address mask wearing.

Click to expand...

The Bible addresses making sacrifices for other people. In fact it is kind of all about that in the New Testament. Jesus sacrificed himself for our sins. Was horrifically scourged and crucified. How much harder it is for some people to wear a piece of cloth is unimaginable for me.

Especially when it is very possible that it is necessary in order to HELP OTHERS.

I am astounded so many Christians have a problem with this. But then, as you know, not all who say "Lord, Lord"....well, you know the rest of it.

rjs330 said:

If I believe I am right, why would I be judged. After all I am basing my belief on the science that tells me mask mandates don't really help.

Click to expand...

You are wrong. There is a lot of science that tell me YOU ARE WRONG. A lot.

But if you are right what is the worst thing that will happen if you wear a mask? Nothing.

But if you are wrong you might help other people get sick and die.

It seems like a really easy solution to this conundrum to me, but then I actually feel guilt when I think I've hurt someone.

pacomascarot said:

The Bible addresses making sacrifices for other people.

Click to expand...

That you think wearing a mask is "making a sacrifice for other people" is absolutely fascinating to me.