Two Atlanta area election workers fired for shredding voter registration forms

Albion said:

There are hundreds of claims that have been supported. The onus is on the people who reject them out of hand and so talk as though vote fraud should not be a concern.

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Name one such claim of voter fraud, with evidence, that would have thrown an election?

wing2000 said:

Name one such claim of voter fraud, with evidence, that would have thrown an election?

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See how you've already qualified your challenge by adding "that would have thrown an election" as though we can decide on that before even looking at the evidence? That sort of runaround or inclusion of a fail-safe proviso in your charge to me is precisely what I have referred to and repeatedly explained.

When vote fraud has been found, some of it very substantial, the apologists immediately dismiss it with one excuse or another. But as noted in this thread, it's getting harder and harder to do, as is shown by the way the backpedaling has progressed.

Albion said:

When vote fraud has been found, some of it very substantial, the apologists immediately dismiss it with one excuse or another. But as noted in this thread, it's getting harder and harder to do, as is shown by the way the backpedaling has progressed.

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You could simply provide the evidence. I'll even settle for "very substantial" voter fraud.

Albion said:

... the original claim to the effect that there was no, none, nada voter fraud ...

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I do not believe anybody made this claim here. Or anywhere. Voter fraud is an issue; that is why the electoral process is rigorously supervised.

The claim has always been that there was no widespread or systematic fraud. Of course there have been votes cast illegitimately, but the evidence shows that such votes were isolated. There is nothing to suggest they were part of a conspiracy, not least because many known examples were cast in favour of Republican candidates.

Whyayeman said:

I do not believe anybody made this claim here. Or anywhere.

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Oh, good grief.

Albion said:

Oh, good grief.

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A reference or two would prove me wrong.

Albion said:

See how you've already qualified your challenge by adding "that would have thrown an election" as though we can decide on that before even looking at the evidence? That sort of runaround or inclusion of a fail-safe proviso in your charge to me is precisely what I have referred to and repeatedly explained.

When vote fraud has been found, some of it very substantial, the apologists immediately dismiss it with one excuse or another. But as noted in this thread, it's getting harder and harder to do, as is shown by the way the backpedaling has progressed.

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He lost. You really need to get over it.

Albion said:

If the Republicans and others don't like it, they will be described as only being interested in "voter suppression," which is a lie.

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Republicans have been caught admitting for decades that they are extremely interested in voter suppression and have absolutely no qualms about using it.

1980 said:

“I don’t want everybody to vote,” Paul Weyrich, an influential conservative activist, said in 1980. “As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

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2012 said:

Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai told a gathering of Republicans that their voter identification law would “allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.”

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2016 said:

A senior vice president of the Metropolitan Milwaukee Chamber of Commerce, Steve Baas, had a thought. “Do we need to start messaging ‘widespread reports of election fraud’ so we are positively set up for the recount regardless of the final number?” he wrote in an email on April 6 to conservative strategists. “I obviously think we should.”
Scott Jensen, a Republican political tactician and former speaker of the State Assembly, responded within minutes. “Yes. Anything fishy should be highlighted,” he wrote. “Stories should be solicited by talk radio hosts.”

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2012 said:

After the election, former Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer told The Palm Beach Post that the explicit goal of the state’s voter-ID law was Democratic suppression. “The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told the Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only ... ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’

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2019 said:

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — One of President Donald Trump’s top reelection advisers told influential Republicans in swing state Wisconsin that the party has “traditionally” relied on voter suppression to compete in battleground states, according to an audio recording of a private event obtained by The Associated Press.

“Traditionally it’s always been Republicans suppressing votes in places,” Clark said at the event. “Let’s start protecting our voters. We know where they are. ... Let’s start playing offense a little bit. That’s what you’re going to see in 2020. It’s going to be a much bigger program, a much more aggressive program, a much better-funded program.”

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2020 Donald Trump said:

“The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again”

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Albion said:

Some of the key people who insisted that there is NO VOTE FRAUD and then adjusted their claim to make it NO WIDESPREAD VOTE FRAUD have now entered into the third phase of their denial.

I am referring to the decision of election officials in several different states to find some MINOR EXAMPLES OF VOTE FRAUD as a way of saying that they, the officials, do admit that there is vote fraud after all...but it's not serious.

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What fraud? Does anything that happens immediately become 'FRAUD'?

Albion said:

There are hundreds of claims that have been supported

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Like what? Please give one example of a supported claim of fraud in the 2020 election, one that clearly supports your narrative.

Albion said:

The onus is on the people who reject them out of hand

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They've been investigated into oblivion. How is that rejecting them out of hand?

Albion said:

the original claim to the effect that there was no, none, nada voter fraud

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That's just your strawman, as should be obvious. Who ever claimed that there is no fraud? Or that there was ever a large scale election without some fraud? It can be taken as read that when any large group of people do something complicated someone or other will make mistakes or deliberately try to throw a spanner in the works. Everybody knows that, pointing it out every time fraud is mentioned (as should be obvious) is redundant. The actual fraud that took place in the election in question however was 1) negligible and 2) was not directed at either party in particular, other than that postie who threw out some votes for Biden.

Albion said:

I am referring to the decision of election officials in several different states to find some MINOR EXAMPLES OF VOTE FRAUD as a way of saying that they, the officials, do admit that there is vote fraud after all

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Please provide just one source that indicates anyone anywhere anytime claiming that fraud does not exist. Your statement is a nonsense, how can someone 'admit' to common knowledge? If someone says in occasionally rains in Saudi Arabia are they 'admitting' something? You really aren't making any sense, which is unsurprising as you are attempting to bend reality to fit what you want to believe.

Albion said:

What he wrote was this: "This isn't voter fraud. No votes were involved."

Well, that isn't the issue at all, and it's becoming distressingly routine for the people with their heads in the proverbial sand to talk as though if a voter had his registration eradicated by an election worker or his ballot sent to the wrong address or the lawful poll watchers weren't allowed to do their work or someone was allowed to vote while impersonating someone else...it doesn't mean much.

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A bunch of random allegations based on not much at all doth not a case make. Please provide an actual example of something that actually happened supported by something that could be considered to be evidence.

Albion said:

What I get from your rant is that you don't understand the issue.

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The relevant issue as far as your fraud claims go is that this case is what actually happens when there is an actual case of something going wrong, intentionally or otherwise. When things actually happen, we know about them because they happened. There is evidence, there are real things that really exist. That is how people know that something has happened, which makes those events different to imaginary happenings, for which no evidence exists, because they didn't actually happen.

wing2000 said:

You could simply provide the evidence. I'll even settle for "very substantial" voter fraud.

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There's this :
McCrae Dowless, central figure in 9th District election probe, indicted

From the article cited in #38 above:

Republican Mark Harris, who hired Dowless for get-out-the-vote operations in Bladen and Robeson counties, led Democratic opponent Dan McCready by 905 votes in that race, according to unofficial results. But the elections board refused to certify those results pending an investigation into allegations of absentee ballot fraud.


Dowless refused to testify at the the board's hearing last week. But some of his employees did, admitting under oath that he paid them to collect ballots.


Lisa Britt, who signed dozens of absentee ballots as a witness in 2018, also told elections officials that Dowless' workers sometimes completed unfinished absentee ballots and that he was aware that she forged her mother's signature as a witness on some ballots. Britt also said that Dowless had given her a note telling her what to say at the hearing.

This changes a lot for me. I have been asking for months for evidence of systematic fraud in relation to the 2020 Presidential Election and have never had any even marginally relevant responses. So it comes as a bit of a surprise today that there have been allegations of just that with enough evidence to go before a court, albeit in previous elections - organised and paid for by Republican Party money.

This is a good example of how fraud attempts can be perpetrated - allegedly by a Republican Party agent in this case. Perhaps there are similar allegations strong enough to warrant a trial against Democratic Party agents in the same period.

Kentonio said:

Republicans have been caught admitting for decades that they are extremely interested in voter suppression and have absolutely no qualms about using it.

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You know that's not true, so it's better left unsaid.