When was Satan bound?

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

Jamdoc said:
I just heard a record scratch in my head when I got to this statement

are you posting from an alternate reality?

Isaiah 2 says

In what world are you living in that people aren't learning war anymore, that we're scrapping weapons into peaceful purpose tools?
We are building and buying weapons sir, and constantly preparing for war.

Your view does not line up with reality.

if you say "that's NHNE" they won't have ever had weapons to repurpose there since it will be a new creation.
It's Millennial Kingdom language, where it's the old earth we currently live on, in a state of peace, and not just peace between men, but peace in nature as well.

It is called: current kingdom reality. It occurs after entering the kingdom of God. It has already come. Those who are truly born again have entered into it. They have experienced the peace of God. When a Christian enters into the kingdom of God the antagonism toward former enemies is lifted. They have a love for the people of God. That is how the wicked know we are the Lord's.

What is more, this description relates to the last days, not some supposed age in the future.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 14, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Revelation was not intended to introduce a large deposit of new revelation that was previously unknown to the other sacred writers. Many (wrongly) formulate new elaborate innovative Bible doctrines out of the apocalyptic symbols that were simply designed to express general spiritual truths, in keeping with the rest of Scripture. End-time enthusiasts often arbitrarily use parables, visions, dreams, and symbols to conveniently design their own theology, theories and prophetic schemes. This distorts what was intended to be an unveiling of truth and confuses those who they speak to.

Well said. This is a very important point that I believe people need to give serious consideration.

There is nothing doctrinal introduced in the book of Revelation that is not taught elsewhere in scripture. Things like the reign of Christ, believers being priests in His kingdom, the second coming of Christ itself, the destruction of all the wicked on the day He comes, the day of judgment and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth are all written about elsewhere in scripture as well.

Satan's binding and his little season are no exceptions to this. It seems that premils do not believe any other scripture besides Revelation 20 describe Satan's binding or his little season. We have shared scripture that we believe relates to his binding many times (Heb 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8, Col 2:14-15, etc.).

But, I know you and I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2 describes the same time period as Satan's little season because of how it talks about the restraint of wickedness during the time period since Christ's first coming and then that restraint being removed at a later time which results in the increased wickedness and the mass falling away that Paul wrote about. And he obviously wrote about those things in terms of them happening just before the second coming of Christ and not a long time afterwards.

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

DavidPT said:
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This obviously involves more than one nation. Nations involve governments. It is their governments who decide who to go to war with and not to go to war with. I live in the USA, a nation. If I decide I don't like China, thus want to go to war with that nation, that is not something I can make happen on my own. Where would I get the man power and the weaponry to take on such a task? If Jesus then said in the Discourse that nation shall rise against nation, which nations currently existing on this planet do you think this might exclude? It would have to exclude more than one nation since nation shall not lift up sword against nation, obviously involves more than just one nation.

One of the biggest differences between Premil and Amil is that Premil attempts to interpret and apply passages according to reality while Amils at times do not. To insist that---nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---is already true, this does not fit with reality. Anyone not blind can easily see that nothing remotely matches with a time like this yet---nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

You are trying to examine Amil through Premil glasses. That will never work. That is why you do not understand this position. Start looking at it from an Amil perspective and you will see the spiritual fulfillment today.

When did or will the last days commence?
When did or will the last days terminate?
When is the "last day" of the "last days"?
What occurs on "last day" of the "last days"?

Just The Facts · Oct 14, 2021

HI Grafted

grafted branch said:
In verse 2 I do agree with SG on the term “in the last days” but let’s set that aside and look at “the nations”. In this verse the last phrase has “all the nations”, which could be interpreted as literally every single person. I don’t think this would be correct based on the other verses in this chapter.

I disagree Not everyone in a Nation agrees but All the Nations themselves could agree even if every single person in that Nation does not agree.

You are asking me to talk about something that Scripture talks very little about. IE the events of the 1,000 years whether you believe it to be literally a 1,000 years or a Figurative 1,000 years. I know many amills believe that all of Rv is about the 1,000 years or the long period of non specific time, I disagree with them.

I am basing what I have stated on what little Scripture has to say about this. If you are asking for my opinion that is a different matter.

Here are my thoughts Scripture is full of duality Two Advents Two Covenants I believe the early rain and the Latter rain ie Two Pentecosts. The Kingdom comes to Believers spiritually that is they are to live there life a with the Kingdom in their hearts but at the second advent it comes materially.

You have to understand what the world will be like after The Great Tribulation ....billions dead nuclear war, plague. disease. death on a scale that will almost wipe out all of mankind. Communications and tech as we know it will be gone. I believe we will not even have electricity for decades if not longer maybe never again. I believe the electric grid as we know it will be all but wiped out by solar storms at the fourth trumpet. I believe when it is all over the few survivors there are left will be looking for a new way to live life. The Kingdom of God Jerusalem will be a light on a hill with Jesus and the Saints Ruling from Jerusalem. What is left of the Nations of the world that is a big question. How ill it be during this time that is also a big question. Anything I was to say would be pure speculation.

I know Amills will say no you are wrong the Kingdom is in Heaven it is all spiritual fulfillment etc etc.

I know the Futurist will say no you are wrong Ezekiel and others tell us what it will be like.

I am sorry but I do not agree with either.

The Vast Majority of OT Prophecy was about events leading up to Jesus first Advent and a little pieces there after.

The Vast Majority of NT prophecy is about events leading up to the Second Advent and little pieces for after that.

I assume that when the next round of prophecy comes it will gives us details on the Kingdom the 1,000 years and the time after that. Just pray that as many as can be shown the truth are shown by this time so that as many as can be saved will be saved. Repentance and Faith unto works is the only way to salvation for Amill premiill post mill and futurists.

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

Just The Facts said:
Hi Sov'

See that was a great post I really understood what you are saying and believing. I would say you are very close to a historical Premill. I am a Historical Premill and Believe it or not we are very close on many things.

When did or will the last days commence? In Jesus Days

When did or will the last days terminate? They have not yet

When is the "last day" of the "last days"? Judgment day Great White Throne

What occurs on "last day" of the "last days"? Judgement Day of the Wicked.

It is an Error to see the term last days or coming soon in the light of human understanding of time.

[20] He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

Here we are almost 2000 years later Clearly Soon to God and Jesus is not the Same as Soon to us. Peter tells us this.

I agree to a point. Rev 13 First beast is Rome Rv: 12 Says Satan rose it, gave it his throne, to chase and hunt down Christians.

The Beast is Rv 17 is just a later version of Rome Because as you said Rv covers events from Jesu's first advent to his second. We know it must be Rome because Daniel is Clear the Fourth Beast rules the world from it inception until Jesus Second Advent. There can be no other world dominating System or Kingdom Government then the fourth Beast.

I however do believe that the Second Beast of Rv13: (out of the Earth) is a Fallen Angel released from the pit at the fifth Trumpet. I believe it is Azazel who taught Mankind Weapons and War. I believe he will claim to be Jesus returned Lucifer played both off of each other whispering lies into the ears of men (Adam and Eve) and The Fallen Angels. This is the Fall in the Garden. To the Fallen Angels he said You can win do this thing and you will be free and I will be your God ruler of the Universe......To Mankind through the women he said take what the Fallen Angels are offering... the Hidden Forbidden knowledge you will become like God.

I agree Revelation jumps back and forth it actually tells the same Story Three complete times just from different points of view. Seals on time beginning to end. Trumpets second Time Beginning to End. Bowls Third time Beginning to End.

Rev 20 is the Day of the Lord from Beginning to end. Starts with resurrection of the Good ends with Resurrection of the dead.

I believe the man of Sin refers to a religious leader who tells everyone the Beast from the Pit is Jesus returned he is also the false prophet.

I have a very different view of this than most, certainly not my own as I have picked it up from study with others. I believe what is to happen is a repeat of what did happen from Pentecost forward. I believe there is a second Pentecost ie the 144,000. I believe they will go out two by two just like Jesus sent out the first sealed Christians. I believe they will preach for 3.5 years Trumpet /bowls 1-4. People will hate them because they control the events. The Religious Powers that Be will say these are demon controlled agents of Satan and that Soon Jesus will return and they will suffer death at his hands. The Fifth Trumpet Sounds The King of the Pit Ascends Performs the Miracle of Fire from Heaven in the sight of Men Claims he is Jesus returned. I believe this will be destroying armies that have surrounded Jerusalem with fire from heaven a cheap copy of Ez:38 and Rv 20 but an event the vast majority of Christians Believe Jesus will do at his return. They believe this because they have fallen pray to false teachers disguised as servants of Jesus who have been teaching this lie for 1700 years.

Seals 1 - 4 Have already Happened and are still happening as you say ongoing.
144,000 and the Trumpets / bowls yet to sound.

The harlot is the False Religious System that mankind has followed and Honored since the fall in the Garden.

Now as to the Peace. I do understand what you are saying and I agree that the only peace an individual will ever know is Jesus in his heart and soul.

That is not what Isaiah 2 is about. You gave a sports analogy allow me to continue it. Isaiah 2 Is about the victory of The Prince of Peace one of the two main Adversaries here.

There is the Fallen Angels that taught Mankind Weapons and War. He is the god of war and forces.

There is the Prince of Peace that will teach mankind to destroy their weapons and learn war no more.

That is why the blood OF ALL WHO HAVE BEEN SLAIN is on the harlot's hands because this false teaching is responsible for every single war mankind has ever fought.

The Constantinian Christin Church does not teach against this, it honours it, it blesses it, it encourages it.

Early Christians saw this a a dual advent thing. They lived it now in their hearts and Souls until his return. They believed if you were in saved then you already held the Promise you did not need to worry you already had the Kingdom within you. Your Deeds Followed You. So why would you still live as a slave to the past Paul talks about this all the time he calls it the living in the Flesh not living in the spirit of the Kingdom to come. That did not preclude their belief that when Jesus returned it would happen on Earth.

Look and listen to Your Lord your Master.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Thy Kingdom come means let your kingdom come

Bible in Basic English
6:10 Let your kingdom come. Let your pleasure be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

Darby's English Translation
6:10 let thy kingdom come, let thy will be done as in heaven so upon the earth;

Weymouth New Testament
6:10 let Thy kingdom come; let Thy will be done, as in Heaven so on earth;

World English Bible
6:10 May your kingdom come. May your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

You are mistaken The Saints and early Christians believed that they must live their lives as if they were already in the Kingdom but yet they still believed the Kingdom was Yet to come

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

After speaking of the “days of Noe” and the “days of Lot,” the Lord then describes a singular “day” when the righteous were rescued and the wicked were destroyed. Whilst the Lord presents the rebellion and debauchery that preceded both of these judgments as a sign of how things will exist prior to the day of His all-consummating appearing, the main focus of His teaching relates to the focus and scale of the wrath which did fall on these two solemn days of destruction and how they accurately reflect what will happen at the second coming. Both individually and jointly, they supply us with a stunning insight into the nature of the actual day that Christ’s returns and to the days that precede His glorious Second Coming. In their substance and importance these two Old Testament days are distinct and unique. And whilst the nature of the judgment and geographical extent of both appreciably varies, brought-together, they graphically represent (1) the type of catastrophe coming, and (2) the scale of the destruction at the end. Scripture nowhere separates in time the gathering of the Lord's people to Himself with the destruction of the wicked.

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

Just The Facts said:
HI Grafted

I disagree Not everyone in a Nation agrees but All the Nations themselves could agree even if every single person in that Nation does not agree.

You are asking me to talk about something that Scripture talks very little about. IE the events of the 1,000 years whether you believe it to be literally a 1,000 years or a Figurative 1,000 years. I know many amills believe that all of Rv is about the 1,000 years or the long period of non specific time, I disagree with them.

I am basing what I have stated on what little Scripture has to say about this. If you are asking for my opinion that is a different matter.

Here are my thoughts Scripture is full of duality Two Advents Two Covenants I believe the early rain and the Latter rain ie Two Pentecosts. The Kingdom comes to Believers spiritually that is they are to live there life a with the Kingdom in their hearts but at the second advent it comes materially.

You have to understand what the world will be like after The Great Tribulation ....billions dead nuclear war, plague. disease. death on a scale that will almost wipe out all of mankind. Communications and tech as we know it will be gone. I believe we will not even have electricity for decades if not longer maybe never again. I believe the electric grid as we know it will be all but wiped out by solar storms at the fourth trumpet. I believe when it is all over the few survivors there are left will be looking for a new way to live life. The Kingdom of God Jerusalem will be a light on a hill with Jesus and the Saints Ruling from Jerusalem. What is left of the Nations of the world that is a big question. How ill it be during this time that is also a big question. Anything I was to say would be pure speculation.

I know Amills will say no you are wrong the Kingdom is in Heaven it is all spiritual fulfillment etc etc.

I know the Futurist will say no you are wrong Ezekiel and others tell us what it will be like.

I am sorry but I do not agree with either.

The Vast Majority of OT Prophecy was about events leading up to Jesus first Advent and a little pieces there after.

The Vast Majority of NT prophecy is about events leading up to the Second Advent and little pieces for after that.

I assume that when the next round of prophecy comes it will gives us details on the Kingdom the 1,000 years and the time after that. Just pray that as many as can be shown the truth are shown by this time so that as many as can be saved will be saved. Repentance and Faith unto works is the only way to salvation for Amill premiill post mill and futurists.

Scripture is not only full of the duality of two Advents and two covenants, Christ and the New Testament writers also only recognize two overriding ages in their teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” One is current, corrupt and temporal and the other is impending, perfect and eternal. One refers to mortal life on earth in the here-and-now, and the other refers to our eternal state. These terms are commonly used in the New Testament when contrasting the toil and trouble of our day with the glory and rest of the hereafter. These two common phrases are found in different places in the New Testament, along with several other similar expressions, referring to time and eternity. The pivotal event that divides these two diverse ages is the glorious climactic return of Jesus Christ.

You deny 'the 2-age model' and invent a 3rd age (in between “this age” and “the age to come”) which is unknown to the sacred text to fit your theology. This is wrong!

Scripture makes it abundantly clear that there is no intervening time-period or temporal age in between “this age” and “the age to come.” It is within the bounds of this juxtapose alone that we understand the whole eschatological arrangement, with its two unique diverse worlds. Johnathan Menn points out that the New Testament “gives us a clear, consistent and comprehensive eschatological interpretive structure. That structure is the ‘two ages’: … ‘this age’ and the ‘age to come’. The terminology of the two ages is the key concept for understanding biblical eschatology. A proper understanding of how this age and the age to come fit together renders biblical eschatology both understandable and coherent” (Biblical Eschatology).

Just The Facts · Oct 14, 2021

Hi Sov

sovereigngrace said:
... and what you are expressing is "your view." Nothing more and nothing less.

No you are wrong.

I am saying it says this so this is what I believe. Example it says Nations will learn war no more. I trust the plain words of God. Nations will learn war no more.

You are saying well it doesn't really mean that because it is not talking about nations it is talking about people and how they are at peace in Christ.

You are interpreting the words adding a meaning that is not stated in the text.

I am saying that is what it says that is what I believe.

There is a big difference.

Jamdoc · Oct 14, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
It is called: current kingdom reality. It occurs after entering the kingdom of God. It has already come. Those who are truly born again have entered into it. They have experienced the peace of God. When a Christian enters into the kingdom of God The antagonism toward former enemies is lifted. They have a love for the people of God. That is how the wicked know we are the Lord's.

What is more, this description relates to the last days, not some supposed age in the future.

Even Christians arm themselves to protect from being murdered and robbed themselves.

Not to mention, it says NATION shall not lift sword against NATION.
that's not some church theology peace.

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

Just The Facts said:
Hi Sov

No you are wrong.

I am saying it says this so this is what I believe. Example it says Nations will learn war no more. I trust the plain words of God. Nations will learn war no more.

You are saying well it doesn't really mean that because it is not talking about nations it is talking about people and how they are at peace in Christ.

You are interpreting the words adding a meaning that is not stated in the text.

I am saying that is what it says that is what I believe.

There is a big difference.

Not so! You invent an age that is unknown to Scripture, that is marked by justice and injustice, righteousness and unrighteousness, sin and perfection, glorification and corruption, in order to support your beliefs. You then stretch "the last days" (which refers to the intra-Advent period) out 1000 years after the last day. That is ridiculous and makes no sense. This teaching should be rejected by every Bible-believing Christian. This is your own private interpretation and it conflicts with the inspired pages.

DavidPT · Oct 14, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
You are trying to examine Amil through Premil glasses. That will never work. That is why you do not understand this position. Start looking at it from an Amil perspective and you will see the spiritual fulfillment today.

When did or will the last days commence?
When did or will the last days terminate?
When is the "last day" of the "last days"?
What occurs on "last day" of the "last days"?

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Let's assume none of this involves a time post the 2nd coming, and that it is to be understood spiritually. Let's then assume one first does this---go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths---which eventually results in this---neither shall they learn war any more---then some of these same ones enlist in the military. Or that some of these are already in the military at the time. How does that remotely add up to, neither shall they learn war any more? Why is it that some Amils would have us believe that contradictions are actually truths? Is that the way truth usually works? If it involves contradictions, it involves the truth, then?

Spiritual Jew · Oct 14, 2021

DavidPT said:
One of the biggest differences between Premil and Amil is that Premil attempts to interpret and apply passages according to reality while Amils at times do not.

That is absolutely a false accusation. The biggest difference between Premil and Amil is that Premil often takes scripture out of context by interpreting figurative text literally while Amil properly recognizes figurative text and interprets it as such.

Isaiah 2:1 This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem: 2 In the last days
the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.

What are "the last days" that Isaiah 2:2 references? When do you think they occur? Aren't reference to "the last days" in scripture normally in reference generally to the last days before Christ's return? Is that how you interpret Isaiah 2? Are the last days of Isaiah 2 different than the last days referenced in these passages:

Acts 2:16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.

Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

If you think the last days referenced in these passages are not the same last days referenced in Isaiah 2, then how do you explain that?

Do you see in Acts 2:17, which quotes Joel 2:28, how it says God would pour out His Spirit on all people in the last days? Do you take that to be speaking of literally all people the same way that you take Isaiah 2 to literally be talking about all people and all nations being at peace and not learning war anymore? I doubt that you do. Why not? Don't you want to be consistent in your literal approach to interpreting scripture?

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Even Christians arm themselves to protect from being murdered and robbed themselves.

You are totally not getting the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God today. You really need to read up on the New Testament and see what Jesus actually described instead of what you've been taught. Entering in to that spiritual kingdom in this life brings an immediate realization in the ‘here and now’ and on this earth of true “righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."

Jesus said in Luke 17:21: “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”

The kingdom of God exists wherever the king – the Lord Jesus Christ – exercises His spiritual jurisdiction. It is a spiritual kingdom and incorporates the whole domain over-which the Lord Jesus Christ exercises His divine kingship, dominion and intimate rule. It relates to all those who belong to His body. His kingdom embodies all those who possess the indwelling Holy Spirit – those who are real believers. Christ’s kingdom is therefore found wherever there are citizens of that kingdom.

The Lord revealed in this passage that the kingdom of God – His kingdom – was not a literal earthly domain neither could it be viewed like other kingdoms with their outward splendor, impressive power and magnitude. It is, rather, a spiritual kingdom, which can only be spiritually entered.

Jesus said in John 18:36, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

Christ couldn’t have made it clearer. This expectation – of a literal visible territorial political kingdom – was wrong. It exposed the ignorance which controlled the Jews. They had a defective perception of the nature of God’s kingdom and the manner in which it would appear.

The kingdom of God that Christ introduced was of a spiritual nature. This absolutely confounded the Pharisees and their misguided earthly carnal concept of the Messianic kingdom.

As it says in Ephesians 6:12, “we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places”

We fight an invisible enemy. He works in secret. He has to. If he was visible we would immediately recognize him. That is not that he does not work in and through humans, he does.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 says, “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.”

To enter into spiritual victory you must pull down everything that is not of God and that does not accord with His Word. Every doubt, every fear, every sin, every hurt, every judgmental thought and every bit of unforgiveness must be evicted. The strongholds must be identified and then pulled down. If they are allowed to remain they will make you a victim instead of a victor. Most of the arrows are imaginary and fanciful. If that is so: he makes the illusion look real. The words translated here “imaginations” is the Greek word logismos (log-is-mos') meaning calculation or reasoning.

Ephesians 6:11 instructs the Christian to “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.” Verse 13 continues on the same vein, “take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.” In Ephesians 6:17 you will find 6 bits of armour for the believer. But “the sword of the Spirit” (the Word of God) is the only offensive part of the Christian armoury.

2 Timothy 2:3-4 declares, “endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.”

Bro/sis, you are a soldier in an army. You are on active duty. If you are going to be impactful then you are going to have to endure hardness! You are to have to take a few punches. You are going to be rejected. You are going to experience warfare. You are going to fight a dark kingdom. You are going to be put in harm’s way. You will feel resistance.

But Paul gives us sound advice in 1 Timothy 6:12 “Fight the good fight of faith.”

He directs us in 1 Timothy 1:18 “war a good warfare.”

We are not fighting a physical battle with physical weapons but rather a spiritual battle with spiritual weapons.

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

DavidPT said:
Why is it that some Amils would have us believe that contradictions are actually truths? Is that the way truth usually works? If it involves contradictions, it involves the truth, then?

The only contradictions are in your head. You have refused to accept the fact that we are in the last days now and that they end on the last day - Jesus return. That is because it exposes your theology. Over this past few years you have argued for 2 bindings of Satan, 2 last days', 2 individual last days, 2 ends, 2 new heavens and new earth, 2 future glorifications and raptures. What is next? Is anything safe from this faulty mode of interpretation?

Spiritual Jew · Oct 14, 2021

Jamdoc said:
Even Christians arm themselves to protect from being murdered and robbed themselves.

Not to mention, it says NATION shall not lift sword against NATION.
that's not some church theology peace.

Okay, so when exactly are these "last days" going to occur when nations don't go to war anymore? Surely, they would have to be before the second coming of Christ since every other reference in scripture to "the last days" speaks of days that occur before His return.

Jamdoc · Oct 14, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Okay, so when exactly are these "last days" going to occur when people don't go to war anymore? Surely, they would have to be before the second coming of Christ since every other reference in scripture to "the last days" speaks of days that occur before His return.

the Millennium.
Obviously.
and if you compare the characteristics of the days Isaiah is talking about to our current world, it doesn't match, and it has not matched any previous time in human history.
making it still future.

convenient that sovereigngrace decided to ignore the "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." part.
Nations.
not the church or ekklesia.
But nations, which in the old testament, meant gentiles and referred to people NOT following the Lord.
sure the gospel spread to the Nations, but it was helped to spread more through the sword, by force.
at no time in history have the gentiles stopped fighting wars.
so, that's still future.

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Well said. This is a very important point that I believe people need to give serious consideration.

There is nothing doctrinal introduced in the book of Revelation that is not taught elsewhere in scripture. Things like the reign of Christ, believers being priests in His kingdom, the second coming of Christ itself, the destruction of all the wicked on the day He comes, the day of judgment and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth are all written about elsewhere in scripture as well.

Satan's binding and his little season are no exceptions to this. It seems that premils do not believe any other scripture besides Revelation 20 describe Satan's binding or his little season. We have shared scripture that we believe relates to his binding many times (Heb 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8, Col 2:14-15, etc.).

But, I know you and I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2 describes the same time period as Satan's little season because of how it talks about the restraint of wickedness during the time period since Christ's first coming and then that restraint being removed at a later time which results in the increased wickedness and the mass falling away that Paul wrote about. And he obviously wrote about those things in terms of them happening just before the second coming of Christ and not a long time afterwards.

Supporting Scripture with Scripture is something Premil cannot do for all its main tenets. What they attribute to Revelation 20 is found nowhere else in Scripture.

sovereigngrace · Oct 14, 2021

Jamdoc said:
the Millennium.
Obviously.
and if you compare the characteristics of the days Isaiah is talking about to our current world, it doesn't match, and it has not matched any previous time in human history.
making it still future.

convenient that sovereigngrace decided to ignore the "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." part.
Nations.
not the church or ekklesia.
But nations, which in the old testament, meant gentiles and referred to people NOT following the Lord.
sure the gospel spread to the Nations, but it was helped to spread more through the sword, by force.
at no time in history have the gentiles stopped fighting wars.
so, that's still future.

Ok then, address the following that forbids your private opinions: When was Satan bound?

Jamdoc · Oct 14, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Address the following that forbids your private opinions: When was Satan bound?

You didn't address my post, so why bother with your wall?
The "Nations" are not the Ekklesia, it's not talking about the Church, it's talking about the world.

and what's more private interpretation?
taking the text as written?
or the square peg through round hole abstraction that you twist it into?

DavidPT · Oct 14, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
What are "the last days" that Isaiah 2:2 references? When do you think they occur? Aren't reference to "the last days" in scripture normally in reference generally to the last days before Christ's return? Is that how you interpret Isaiah 2? Are the last days of Isaiah 2 different than the last days referenced in these passages:

Let's see if the same applies to you.

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

This says latter days. The same Hebrew words for last days in Isaiah 2 are the very same Hebrew words used for latter days in this verse.

To then use your own words, not mine---"Aren't reference to "the last days" in scripture normally in reference generally to the last days before Christ's return? Is that how you interpret Isaiah 2? Are the last days of Isaiah 2 different than the last days referenced in these passages:"

Is that how you are interpreting Ezekiel 38:16, that is it is meaning the last days before Christ's return? Because if you are not, what then makes you feel you are qualified to show me how to interpret the passages in Isaiah 2 in question, when you are not even applying the last days mentioned in Ezekiel 38:16 in the same manner you are applying them in Isaiah 2?

As to the last days involving Isaiah 2, and the fact there are 2 advents of Christ involved, why can't some of it start in the last days leading up to the 2nd coming, and some of it meaning post the 2nd coming?

Take verse 4 for instance--this part--And he shall judge among the nations(Isaiah 2:4)---why can't one then apply it to something like this---and in righteousness he doth judge and make war(Revelation 19:11)---And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations, : and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: (Revelation 19:15)--which then places these events---and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more(Isaiah 2:4)---post all these other events. At least this doesn't have Isaiah in Isaiah 2:4 and Jesus in Matthew 24:6-8 contradicting each other.

.

Aldebaran · Oct 14, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
You are taking 2 Peter 3:8 completely out of context. It has absolutely nothing to do with a thousand year day of rest.

I assume you understand that the context of 2 Peter 3 is in regards to the promise of Christ's second coming (see 2 Peter 3:3-4)?

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The reason Peter pointed out that one 24 hour day is as a thousand years to the Lord is to show how time does not affect the Lord. So, for anyone to think He is being slow in keeping His promise of returning then they are not taking into account how the Lord sees time. He is not being slow, He is being patient because of His desire for all people to repent instead of perishing in their lost state. That is the context of 2 Peter 3:8 and it has nothing to do with a supposed thousand year sabbath day of rest.

Nor did I say it specifically did. I was pointing out that verse, and the fact that the years of biblical history have a way of meshing together to lay out a long-term pattern that, if it continues along the same path, has the Millennial reign of Christ in our near future.

When was Satan bound?

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Watching and Praying Always

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Amillennialist

Watching and Praying Always

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Watching and Praying Always

Well-Known Member

NCC-1701-A

Similar threads