The nonsense of "faith produces works"

Guojing

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Of course not. As I have been saying, the Gospel of the Kingdom is what Jesus and Paul taught, that God was coming back to overthrow the governance and institutions of man. Don't sell the Lord's Prayer short. And if you believe they taught separate gospels under the same name, then obviously the choice would be Jesus' version, the original.

I am not part of the nation of Israel so to me, the obvious choice is Paul's gospel of grace.

But it appears that you desire to be part of that nation, to be saved thru that nation. If that is the case, then I can understand why you chose the gospel of the Kingdom.
 
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timothyu

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I am not part of the nation of Israel so to me, the obvious choice is Paul's gospel of grace.
There is no difference, unless of course you take the Gentile's desire to separate themselves from the Jews into consideration. Roman's preferred to be dominant, not subjects.. especially to Jews and Jewish customs. They preferred to make Christianity over in their own image.
 
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timothyu

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Jews in Jesus' time and still today believe in works where they think God will ask them how prosperous they were in this life they were given. A far cry from the works Jesus asked of us which was anti-prosperity and more care for others. Just another example of worldliness on the part of the Jews, who also looked for a material messiah.
 
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Guojing

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There is no difference, unless of course you take the Gentile's desire to separate themselves from the Jews into consideration. Roman's preferred to be dominant, not subjects.. especially to Jews and Jewish customs. They preferred to make Christianity over in their own image.

In Romans 9-11, Paul states the difference between them

In Acts 21:18-25, James also states the difference between them.
 
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New Testament Christian

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So you do agree that Peter was preaching to Cornelius in that verse that you need to do works to be righteous before God.

Its similar to what John would also preached to Israel in 1 John

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You can see that Peter is preaching the same as John, who is preaching the same as Jesus in the 4 Gospels in Matthew 5:17-19. Under the gospel of the kingdom, faith AND works are both required for salvation.

As a Church of Christ christian, your favorite passage, Mark 16:16 also reflects that same gospel.

I dont have a favorite verse. Mark 16:15-16 is rejected by so called "christians". Unfortunately, you don't believe Jesus. You lack faith in His gospel.

Paul was in the church of Christ, Romans 16:16.

If you're not in the church that Paul is in, that should bother you.

Btw, you still haven't told me what church you are in. Why is that? If a Christian wants others to be saved and they believe their church teaches the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Why would they hide from others the church they are in? Strange for a professing "christian" to keep the truth from others. Is that what the apostles did?

There is another apostle that taught the faith that saves must work righteousness. Why do you ignore Paul's teaching?

Galatians 5:6

The faith that saves must WORK love.

Paul agrees with the gospel of Jesus Christ, Mark 16: 15-16. Faith must be a working faith in order to save.

All salvation for all must include works says Paul.

Otherwise according to Paul your faith without works avails you nothing.

Paul teaches the same gospel as Acts 10:35. All the apostles are in unison.

All Christians are in the the church that is found in the new testament,

Romans 16:16
Greet one another with a Holy kiss. The churches of Christ greet you.

If you cannot say you are in the church of Christ as Paul was, as all 1st. Century christians were, then you are not in the Biblical church that was established by Jesus Christ.

What church are you in Guojing?

Paul was clear there was only Jesus' gospel.

Galatians 1:6-7
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER ; but there are some who trouble you( men like Guojing) and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Paul was clear, there is one gospel.

Guojing you go against Jesus and Paul and say there is multiple gospels. You will answer for denying the scriptures.

Give me an answer Guojing,

The church at Corinth had both jew and gentiles worshiping together on the first day of the week, Acts 20:7 and throughout the week.

Now explain how jew and gentile both heard different gospels as you claim in fellowship with one another on the Lords day?

Did the church at Corinth hve a worship service for the jewish christians then have a seperate worship service and another gospel for the gentile Christians?

If jews and gentiles who were christians worshipped together as they clearly did at the church in Corinth. How is that possible if there are as you claim a gospel only for gentiles and a gospel only for the jews?

If your church's doctrine of two gospels is true then Jews and gentiles in the same church could not have heard the same gospel on the Lords day, yet that is exactly what they did hear preached, the one true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:44
On the next Sabbath ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY CAME TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.
The whole city was gentiles and jews!!!!

Both jew and gentile heard the ONE gospel preached by Paul this day.

Acts 13:45-47
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming they opposed the things spoken by Paul,

Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, it was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold we turn to the Gentiles.

For the Lord has commanded us: I have set you as a light to the gentiles, that you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.

The very next verse says many gentiles believed right then and there!!!

Paul preached to the multitudes both jew and gentile the gospel.

Gentiles hearing this gospel from Paul believed.

This was the same gospel the Jews heard for they also were a part of the multitude, and many Jews rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ.

There was only one gospel Paul was preaching to jew and gentiles in Acts 13:. Paul had not even began to go and preach only to gentiles at this time in his ministry.

Therefore both jew and gentile were obeying and rejecting this one gospel Paul was preaching at this time.

If two gospels why was gentiles believing Paul's gospel preaching and being saved before Paul went specifically to the gentiles after this occurred in Acts 13?

The obvious and honest answer is, Paul's gospel he preached to jews was the same gospel he preached to gentiles. Acts 13 confirms this fact.

Now the jew and gentile church at Corinth,

Acts 14:1
Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews and so spoke that a great multitude BOTH OF JEWS AND OF THE GREEKS BELIEVED.

Here agian Paul's gospel was preached to jew and gentile!!!!

They both believed this ONE GOSPEL!!!

They both were saved by this one gospel of Jesus Christ.

Read the entire chapter of Acts 14.

You will learn both Jews and Gentiles were being saved by Paul's preaching. And both jew and gentile were added to THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!!!

Acts 14:21-22
And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch,

Strengthening souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in THE FAITH, and saying, We must through many tribulations ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

So they had appointed elders in every church and prayed with fasting, they commended them(
jew and greek) to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Now Paul is going to tell the Christian jews not to circumcise the Christian gentile converts to Christ.

Paul preached and converted these jews and gentiles with the same gospel.

Acts 15:1-11
Verse 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through phoenicia and samaria, describing the conversion of the gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.

And when they had come to Jerusalem, they(
Paul and Barnabas) they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders: and they reported all things that God had done with them.

But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying It is necessary to circumcise them(
gentile christians) and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Now the apostles(
All of the apostles: Paul, Peter etc.) And elders came together to consider this matter.

And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: Men and brethren you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,

And made NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN US AND THEM, purifying their hearts by faith.

Now Peter is going to teach that Jews and gentiles are both saved in the same manner!!!

If the gospel of the Jews according to dispensationalism is a works based gospel and the gentile gospel is a grace and no works based gospel, HOW CAN PETER SAY BOTH JEW AND GENTILE WILL BE SAVED IN THE SAME MANNER?

Verse 11
But we believe that through the GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ WE(
both jew and gentile saved by grace) SHALL BE SAVED IN THE SAME MANNER AS THEY.

Verse12
Then all the multitude(
Jews and gentiles) kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked them among the gentiles

There is overwhelming evidence that both jew and gentile were saved by the same gospel of Jesus Christ preached by all the apostles.

It is an imaginary man made false doctrine that there is more than one gospel of Jesus Christ.

The gospel is for all, Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, for it is the power of God to salvation FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES, FOR THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO FOR THE GREEK.
 
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New Testament Christian

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So you do agree that Peter was preaching to Cornelius in that verse that you need to do works to be righteous before God.

Its similar to what John would also preached to Israel in 1 John

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You can see that Peter is preaching the same as John, who is preaching the same as Jesus in the 4 Gospels in Matthew 5:17-19. Under the gospel of the kingdom, faith AND works are both required for salvation.

As a Church of Christ christian, your favorite passage, Mark 16:16 also reflects that same gospel.


How can anyone interpret Mark 16:15-16 as to Jews only?

That is a butchery of the verses!

Mark 16:15-16
......Go into ALL THE WORLD and preach the GOSPEL to EVERY CREATURE.....

Jesus includes ALL!!!

Now Goujing's sects misinterpretation,

Mark 16:15-16
....Go into all the Jews and preach the Jewish gospel to every jew....

Poor exegesis. You Sir, are in a church that preaches false doctrine.
 
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New Testament Christian

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In Romans 9-11, Paul states the difference between them

In Acts 21:18-25, James also states the difference between them.

The difference Guojing claims is Paul did not preach the gospel Jesus preached, Mark 16:15-16. Let's see if the Bible teaches what Guojing teaches,

2 Corinthians 2:12
Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel and a door was opened unto me of the Lord.
 
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Guojing

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The difference Guojing claims is Paul did not preach the gospel Jesus preached, Mark 16:15-16. Let's see if the Bible teaches what Guojing teaches,

2 Corinthians 2:12
Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel and a door was opened unto me of the Lord.

Both gospels are about Christ.
 
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Guojing

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How can anyone interpret Mark 16:15-16 as to Jews only?

That is a butchery of the verses!

Mark 16:15-16
......Go into ALL THE WORLD and preach the GOSPEL to EVERY CREATURE.....

Jesus includes ALL!!!

Now Goujing's sects misinterpretation,

Mark 16:15-16
....Go into all the Jews and preach the Jewish gospel to every jew....

Poor exegesis. You Sir, are in a church that preaches false doctrine.

Do you know why Peter said to Cornelius in Acts 10:28? If Peter understood Mark 16:15-16 like you did, why did he even state that to him?

And in Acts 11:1 when the fellow Jewish believers criticize Peter for eating with gentiles, why didn't Peter reply like you did using Mark 16:15-16, that every creature also includes Gentiles?
 
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Guojing

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I dont have a favorite verse. Mark 16:15-16 is rejected by so called "christians". Unfortunately, you don't believe Jesus. You lack faith in His gospel.

Paul was in the church of Christ, Romans 16:16.

If you're not in the church that Paul is in, that should bother you.

Btw, you still haven't told me what church you are in. Why is that? If a Christian wants others to be saved and they believe their church teaches the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Why would they hide from others the church they are in? Strange for a professing "christian" to keep the truth from others. Is that what the apostles did?

There is another apostle that taught the faith that saves must work righteousness. Why do you ignore Paul's teaching?

Galatians 5:6

The faith that saves must WORK love.

Paul agrees with the gospel of Jesus Christ, Mark 16: 15-16. Faith must be a working faith in order to save.

All salvation for all must include works says Paul.

Otherwise according to Paul your faith without works avails you nothing.

Paul teaches the same gospel as Acts 10:35. All the apostles are in unison.

I already state I attend a Charismatic church. Do you know the name of every church in my home country?
 
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timothyu

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The difference Guojing claims is Paul did not preach the gospel Jesus preached
Even though Acts states on three different occasions that he also taught the Gospel of the Kingdom constantly, of which there was only one? The fact he added salvation is irrelevant to the original gospel which states in spite of all the added goodies for repentant mankind, that God shall live among the people again and exterminate the governance of man. That was God's good news, it is about Him, not about selfish make everything about us mankind.
 
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New Testament Christian

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I already state I attend a Charismatic church. Do you know the name of every church in my home country?
Charismatic church? Are you not aware of the great number of differing charismatic churches?

Which charismatic church are you a member of?
 
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New Testament Christian

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Even though Acts states on three different occasions that he also taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of which there was only one? The fact he added salvation is irrelevant to the original gospel which states in spite of all the added goodies for repentant mankind, that God shall live among the people again and exterminate the governance of man. That was God's good news, it about Him, not about selfish make everything about us, us.
From now on when you address me, would you please use scripture to back up your doctrine?
 
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New Testament Christian

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Do you know why Peter said to Cornelius in Acts 10:28? If Peter understood Mark 16:15-16 like you did, why did he even state that to him?

And in Acts 11:1 when the fellow Jewish believers criticize Peter for eating with gentiles, why didn't Peter reply like you did using Mark 16:15-16, that every creature also includes Gentiles?

Sir, what other way can this statement be taken?

Go into ALL THE WORLD and preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE.

There is only one way that can be taken Guojing!
 
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timothyu

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From now on when you address me, would you please use scripture to back up your doctrine?
You mean..
Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
 
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New Testament Christian

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Do you know why Peter said to Cornelius in Acts 10:28? If Peter understood Mark 16:15-16 like you did, why did he even state that to him?

And in Acts 11:1 when the fellow Jewish believers criticize Peter for eating with gentiles, why didn't Peter reply like you did using Mark 16:15-16, that every creature also includes Gentiles?
Peter did state Mark 16:16

Acts 10:47-48
Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?

And he(Peter) commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Peter taught Jesus' gospel to gentiles
 
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Guojing

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Peter did state Mark 16:16

Acts 10:47-48
Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?

And he(Peter) commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Peter taught Jesus' gospel to gentiles

That is not my point. My point is that you interpret Mark 16:15-16 differently from Peter.

all creature does not include gentiles at that point in time. Israel needed to believe in Jesus first, before any gentile could be reached under the gospel of the kingdom.

The order was specified in Luke's version of the GC. That is why the Jewish believers criticize Peter for going to the gentiles "ahead of time" in Acts 11
 
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Guojing

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Sir, what other way can this statement be taken?

Go into ALL THE WORLD and preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE.

There is only one way that can be taken Guojing!

My question to you is, if there is only one way to understand, which is yours, why didn't Peter use that in his reply in Acts 11:2 onwards?

Peter and the Jewish believers obviously did not understand Mark 16:15-16 the way you understood it.
 
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New Testament Christian

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My question to you is, if there is only one way to understand, which is yours, why didn't Peter use that in his reply in Acts 11:2 onwards?

Peter and the Jewish believers obviously did not understand Mark 16:15-16 the way you understood it.
Every creature does not mean every creature, REALLY,!!

Go into all the world does not mean all the world, REALLY?

It becomes more apparent to believe your doctrine you must believe the scriptures don't mean what they say!

Peter did not teach Mark 16:15-16 to Cornelius? Really?

Why was Cornelius commanded to be water baptized by Peter then?

A gentile getting water baptized, sound familiar, Acts 2:38?
 
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