Once again, what are we to make of Zechariah 14:16-19?

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Biblewriter, you say you have done extensive research into the nations involved in the Gog battle. What if it is not the ENTIRE NATION of Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, etc., but only individuals members which would have descended from or who had come out of those nations which would participate in Gog's battle? This is what the LXX indicates. It says that "Persians" (not all of Persia), "Ethiopians" (not all of Ethiopia), "Libyans" (not all of Libya), and so on. Of course, this does not help if you reject the LXX which Christ used, and consider it an "aberrant text". For others who don't have that view of the LXX, however, this might help.

We are told that Gog was going to "turn thy hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land." (Ezekiel 38:12) When Israel was re-gathered in the post-exilic return, they came out from every nation of the empire back to their homeland to dwell in it after those 70 years of exile. That decree of Cyrus allowed for the Israelites to come out from the nations to which they had been scattered; from Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer, the house of Togarmah, etc. The descendants of these formerly-exiled Israelites who were gathered back to dwell in the midst of the land of Israel were those whom the "chief prince" would use in his army against their fellow Israelites in AD 69.
 
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If this variant reading does exist, you have to address the reason why they translate it differently, and prove that reason to be wrong. Can you do that? Are there, or are there not two different ways to pronounce that Hebrew verb, as the quote above stated, resulting in two different translations of it?
I have now checked the Hebrew word נוּס, nus in our alphabet in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, in the Brown-Driver Biggs Hebrew Dictionary, and in the WSOT, NASB, and STGHD dictionaries, and they are unanimous in declaring that it means "to flee." I have not find even one linguistic resource that even hints at an idea that it can even sometimes mean "blocked."

If you can direct me to even one linguistic resource that agrees with you, I will examine it. But so far, you are the only source that I have ever run across that has ever claim that נוּס can sometimes be correctly translated as "blocked." And, aside from the Septuagint, which I have already proved to have incorrectly translated "Agag" as "Gog," even you have been unable to provide a single translation that so renders this Hebrew word, other than a few made by Roman Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jews, all of which, like yourself, have a vested interest in denying a future application of Zechariah 14.

And you have still not answered, because you cannot answer, the hard fact that the "very large valley" prophesied in Zechariah 14:4 to develop between the two halves of "the Mount of Olives," and to run "from east to west" between these two halves, simply does not exist
 
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Biblewriter, you say you have done extensive research into the nations involved in the Gog battle. What if it is not the ENTIRE NATION of Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, etc., but only individuals members which would have descended from or who had come out of those nations which would participate in Gog's battle? This is what the LXX indicates. It says that "Persians" (not all of Persia), "Ethiopians" (not all of Ethiopia), "Libyans" (not all of Libya), and so on. Of course, this does not help if you reject the LXX which Christ used, and consider it an "aberrant text". For others who don't have that view of the LXX, however, this might help.

We are told that Gog was going to "turn thy hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land." (Ezekiel 38:12) When Israel was re-gathered in the post-exilic return, they came out from every nation of the empire back to their homeland to dwell in it after those 70 years of exile. That decree of Cyrus allowed for the Israelites to come out from the nations to which they had been scattered; from Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer, the house of Togarmah, etc. The descendants of these formerly-exiled Israelites who were gathered back to dwell in the midst of the land of Israel were those whom the "chief prince" would use in his army against their fellow Israelites in AD 69.
You are forgetting that Ezekiel 38:3 explicitly says that "Gog" is "the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal." (NKJV) or "ruler of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal." (Seprtuagint.) and that in addition to verse 5 saying that they are accompanied by "Persia, Ethiopia and Libya" (NKJV) or "Persians and Ethiopians and Libyians," (Septuagint) verse 6 says "Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops--many people are with you."(NKJV) or "Gomer and all the ones around him the house of Togarmah from the extreme north and all the ones around him; and [nations many] with you.

So even if your claim about the Persians, the Ethiopians, and the Libyians were accurate (which is not the case) this argument would not apply to the identification of Gog or to the armies that will come from Gomer and Togarmah.

But your BASIC argument, that this speaks pf a civil war among the Israelites, is groundless.
"Every man's sword will be against his brother" (Ezekiel 38:21) could apply to ANY army. This does not even IMPLY that this is speaking of Israelites fighting against Israelites.

But, like every argument presented by a Preterist that I have ever examined, you are simply ignoring the details of this prophecy.

There is no historical record of a great earthquake occurring at that time,as is explicitly stated in verses 19-20. Nor is there any historical record of there having at that time been a "pestilence" or "flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone," as is explicitly stated in verse 22.

Nor is there any historical record of the people using their weapons a fuel for seven years, as is explicitly stated in Ezekiel 39:9-10

And there is no historical record of special individualy being appointed to bury the dead for seven months, as is explicitly stated in verses 12-15.

Nor is there any historical record of any place havine ever been called "the valley of Hamon-Gog," nor of of a city having ever been called "Hamonah," as is explicitly stated in verses 15-16.

Nor did the Lord at that time have mercy on "the whole house of Israel," as is explicitly stated in verse 25, for some of them remained captives, contrary to the explicit statement of verse 28.

So, even as the obvious flaws in your claim that Zechariah 14:2-5 has been fulfilled, this claim also fails to take into account the fact that MOST of the details contained in Ezekiel 38 and 39 have NOT been fulfilled.

I have personally examined MANY of the claims made by Preterists, that various prophecies about the end times have already been fulfilled. And I have yet to examine even one of them that did not have this FATAL flaw of having simply IGNORED, not some, but MOST of the details of the prophecies in question.
 
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all of which, like yourself, have a vested interest in denying a future application of Zechariah 14.

But I don't deny a future application of all of Zechariah 14. There is a chronological break between a past fulfillment in Zechariah 12:1 until the middle of Zechariah 14 (describing ethnic Israel and Old Jerusalem's AD 66-70 physical destruction), and the future application of the "living waters" going out of New Jerusalem, and also Zechariah 14:16-19.

Here is a question that I wish you would answer. If your version of this translated Hebrew verb is correct, then WHY would anyone flee through a newly-created Valley made by a split Mount of Olives AWAY FROM the returning Christ who would be standing on that mountain? If this was living believers, that would not be something they would even want to do. If it was going to be wicked people fleeing through this newly-created valley, how would running away from Christ through a newly-created valley accomplish anything? No one escapes Christ that way. This is a pointless version of a translation. Interpreting it this way makes no sense. And it contradicts the fact that Jerusalem would be under a siege at that point, with no way out of the city until it was taken, as Zechariah 12:2 described.

Besides, the LXX translation (that I have no problem using, since Christ Himself and the disciples and Paul used it) says nothing about a new valley being created. Not that you give it any consideration, but it reads, "And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave asunder, half of it toward the east and the west, a very great division; and half the mountain shall lean to the north and half of it to the south." This is the top of the Mount of Olives breaking up and sliding in all four directions; creating landslide rubble from another earthquake, like the one back in King Uzziah's days.

Here is a link to the post that first introduced me to the variant reading of Zechariah 14:4-5.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/preterist-forum/ye-shall-not-flee-to-azal/

I don't hang all my paradigm for Christ's AD 70 coming on this Zechariah 14 text alone. I follow the language describing that event as found in almost every book of the NT. As well as the historical record of events that match those predicted to occur before Christ returned back then.
 
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But I don't deny a future application of all of Zechariah 14. There is a chronological break between a past fulfillment in Zechariah 12:1 until the middle of Zechariah 14 (describing ethnic Israel and Old Jerusalem's AD 66-70 physical destruction), and the future application of the "living waters" going out of New Jerusalem, and also Zechariah 14:16-19.

Here is a question that I wish you would answer. If your version of this translated Hebrew verb is correct, then WHY would anyone flee through a newly-created Valley made by a split Mount of Olives AWAY FROM the returning Christ who would be standing on that mountain? If this was living believers, that would not be something they would even want to do. If it was going to be wicked people fleeing through this newly-created valley, how would running away from Christ through a newly-created valley accomplish anything? No one escapes Christ that way. This is a pointless version of a translation. Interpreting it this way makes no sense. And it contradicts the fact that Jerusalem would be under a siege at that point, with no way out of the city until it was taken, as Zechariah 12:2 described.

Besides, the LXX translation (that I have no problem using, since Christ Himself and the disciples and Paul used it) says nothing about a new valley being created. Not that you give it any consideration, but it reads, "And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave asunder, half of it toward the east and the west, a very great division; and half the mountain shall lean to the north and half of it to the south." This is the top of the Mount of Olives breaking up and sliding in all four directions; creating landslide rubble from another earthquake, like the one back in King Uzziah's days.

Here is a link to the post that first introduced me to the variant reading of Zechariah 14:4-5. http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/preterist-forum/ye-shall-not-flee-to=azal/

I don't hang all my paradigm for Christ's AD 70 coming on this Zechariah 14 text alone. I follow the language describing that event as found in almost every book of the NT. As well as the historical record of events that match those predicted to occur before Christ returned back then.
The Hebrew text does not contain specific words indicating who it is that shall flee. But the rest of Bible prophecy is very clear that, at the time Messiah returns, the only people left in the land will be the wicked, for the righteous will have been cast out three and a half years earlier. So it is quite understandable that the wicked would be so panicked that they would attempt to flee from Him when He arrives, even though such flight would, as you observed, be pointless. This panicked flight is also discussed in my book in the words:

"In the mad flight of the nations, Edom appears to be pushed by the armies behind them, for we read in Obadiah 7 that “All the men in your confederacy Shall force you to the border; The men at peace with you Shall deceive you and prevail against you. Those who eat your bread shall lay a trap for you. No one is aware of it.” (footnote - The wording of our translation and numerous others implies that this will be an intentional plot by Edom’s confederates. But this is not necessarily the meaning of this passage, as we see in Young’s Literal Translation (by the Dr. Young of Young’s Concordance fame): “Unto the border sent thee have all thine allies, Forgotten thee, prevailed over thee, have thy friends, Thy bread they make a snare under thee, There is no understanding in him!” This seems to imply carelessness or recklessness, as would occur in a state of panic, rather than intent.)
 
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Nor did the Lord at that time have mercy on "the whole house of Israel," as is explicitly stated in verse 25, for some of them remained captives, contrary to the explicit statement of verse 28.

You are missing the time qualifier present in that Ezekiel 38:25 verse. God said "NOW will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name: AFTER that they have borne their shame, ..." God was switching the narrative of his prophetic message to Ezekiel about the future battle of Gog coming against Israel over to Israel's present situation of being in exile. Though Israel's last days as a people would involve Gog coming against them, "NOW" meant that God had immediate intentions of planning their post-exilic return after 70 years of "bearing their shame" while in exile under the Babylonians. Their restoration would be such that they would dwell in "unwalled villages" - a symbol of prospering without threat of attack. God would accomplish this by "pouring out His Spirit upon the house of Israel", as evidenced under Haggai, Ezra, and Nehemiah's ministries.

But your BASIC argument, that this speaks pf a civil war among the Israelites, is groundless.
"Every man's sword will be against his brother" (Ezekiel 38:21) could apply to ANY army. This does not even IMPLY that this is speaking of Israelites fighting against Israelites.

Yes, it does. This isn't just any army under discussion in Ezekiel 38:18-21. It is specifically Gog coming against Israel, and that battle being one of civil conflict.
 
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Besides, the LXX translation (that I have no problem using, since Christ Himself and the disciples and Paul used it)
If you check carefully, you will see that some of the quotations made by Christ and the Apostles are from the Septuagint, and some are not. So it would seem that they quoted what God had actually said, not just what some translation said.

And by the way, your link did not work.
 
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The Hebrew text does not contain specific words indicating who it is that shall flee. But the rest of Bible prophecy is very clear that, at the time Messiah returns, the only people left in the land will be the wicked, for the righteous will have been cast out three and a half years earlier. So it is quite understandable that the wicked would be so panicked that they would attempt to flee from Him when He arrives, even though such flight would, as you observed, be pointless. This panicked flight is also discussed in my book in the words:

How is it even possible for anyone to flee through a valley outside of Jerusalem's walls if they were under siege within the city, as predicted for Israel in Zechariah 12:2?
 
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You are missing the time qualifier present in that Ezekiel 38:25 verse. God said "NOW will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name: AFTER that they have borne their shame, ..." God was switching the narrative of his prophetic message to Ezekiel about the future battle of Gog coming against Israel over to Israel's present situation of being in exile. Though Israel's last days as a people would involve Gog coming against them, "NOW" meant that God had immediate intentions of planning their post-exilic return after 70 years of "bearing their shame" while in exile under the Babylonians. Their restoration would be such that they would dwell in "unwalled villages" - a symbol of prospering without threat of attack. God would accomplish this by "pouring out His Spirit upon the house of Israel", as evidenced under Haggai, Ezra, and Nehemiah's ministries.



Yes, it does. This isn't just any army under discussion in Ezekiel 38:18-21. It is specifically Gog coming against Israel, and that battle being one of civil conflict.
No, I was not ignoring the timeline at all. The word "now" here is referring to the time being spoken about, not the present time of the prophet who was speaking.
 
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How is it even possible for anyone to flee through a valley outside of Jerusalem's walls if they were under siege within the city, as predicted for Israel in Zechariah 12:2?
The siege will be TOTALLY broken by the appearance of the great Messiah, EVERYONE, including the besiegers AND the besieged, will flee in terror.
 
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You are missing the time qualifier present in that Ezekiel 38:25 verse. God said "NOW will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name: AFTER that they have borne their shame, ..." God was switching the narrative of his prophetic message to Ezekiel about the future battle of Gog coming against Israel over to Israel's present situation of being in exile. Though Israel's last days as a people would involve Gog coming against them, "NOW" meant that God had immediate intentions of planning their post-exilic return after 70 years of "bearing their shame" while in exile under the Babylonians. Their restoration would be such that they would dwell in "unwalled villages" - a symbol of prospering without threat of attack. God would accomplish this by "pouring out His Spirit upon the house of Israel", as evidenced under Haggai, Ezra, and Nehemiah's ministries.



Yes, it does. This isn't just any army under discussion in Ezekiel 38:18-21. It is specifically Gog coming against Israel, and that battle being one of civil conflict.
You have ZERO basis for your claim that this speaks of civil conflict. THAT proof exists ENTIRELY in your mind. I have already proved that you are ignoring most of the details in tis prophecy.
 
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I'm not ignoring them, Biblewriter; I have covered each of these points before on other websites. At the moment, I don't have time to review them all, as I am trying to get a workroom deadline out the door tomorrow. Will try to give you a workable link to where I have discussed this Gog prophecy at length.

Oh, I double-checked the link I gave. Not sure why it won't go through, but I'll try to fix it tomorrow if I can.
 
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I'm not ignoring them, Biblewriter; I have covered each of these points before on other websites. At the moment, I don't have time to review them all, as I am trying to get a workroom deadline out the door tomorrow. Will try to give you a workable link to where I have discussed this Gog prophecy at length.

Oh, I double-checked the link I gave. Not sure why it won't go through, but I'll try to fix it tomorrow if I can.
Actually, there an be no rational debate on the subject of these details. For there can be zero question that none of these things have ever happened, even to the present day.
 
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The siege will be TOTALLY broken by the appearance of the great Messiah, EVERYONE, including the besiegers AND the besieged, will flee in terror.

That's not what the prophecy of Zechariah 12-14 said would happen. The siege against Jerusalem would continue until the city was taken, and the houses rifled, the women ravished, half of the city taken captive, and the spoil divided in the midst of it (Zechariah 14:1). Spoil is usually divided when a victory over a city is accomplished by those besieging it - not by those besiegers fleeing the scene through a newly-created valley. Your translated version of all people supposedly fleeing Jerusalem at that point is not in sync with the rest of the Zechariah 12-14 prophetic narrative. It actually contradicts it.

The way God was going to fight against those in Jerusalem was going to be a plague of starvation that rapidly consumed them; starvation so abrupt and overwhelming that they would be consumed as they stood upon their feet. They would end up battling each other in their panic for food, "and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem..." (Zechariah 14:13-14). This again is CIVIL WAR inside Jerusalem, just as Ezekiel 38:21 said would happen when Gog attacked Israel.

Actually, there an be no rational debate on the subject of these details. For there can be zero question that none of these things have ever happened, even to the present day.

When someone tells me that there can be ZERO questions about a certain interpretation, a red flag goes up in my mind. I was told for 16 years in a cult-like church (in which I was unfortunately a member) to never question what I was hearing from the pulpit. I kicked that delusion to the curb long ago. Questions are good. If what you present can't stand up to a few challenging questions, it doesn't sound very convincing to me.
 
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That's not what the prophecy of Zechariah 12-14 said would happen. The siege against Jerusalem would continue until the city was taken, and the houses rifled, the women ravished, half of the city taken captive, and the spoil divided in the midst of it (Zechariah 14:1). Spoil is usually divided when a victory over a city is accomplished by those besieging it - not by those besiegers fleeing the scene through a newly-created valley. Your translated version of all people supposedly fleeing Jerusalem at that point is not in sync with the rest of the Zechariah 12-14 prophetic narrative. It actually contradicts it.

The way God was going to fight against those in Jerusalem was going to be a plague of starvation that rapidly consumed them; starvation so abrupt and overwhelming that they would be consumed as they stood upon their feet. They would end up battling each other in their panic for food, "and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem..." (Zechariah 14:13-14). This again is CIVIL WAR inside Jerusalem, just as Ezekiel 38:21 said would happen when Gog attacked Israel.



When someone tells me that there can be ZERO questions about a certain interpretation, a red flag goes up in my mind. I was told for 16 years in a cult-like church (in which I was unfortunately a member) to never question what I was hearing from the pulpit. I kicked that delusion to the curb long ago. Questions are good. If what you present can't stand up to a few challenging questions, it doesn't sound very convincing to me.
Actually, you are the one who is unable to present proof of your claims. As I told you before, I have examined many claims made by Preterists that such-and-such a historical record proves that such-and-such an end time prophecy has already been fulfilled. And, without a single exception, in every case, less than 20 percent of the details in the prophecy in question matched the details in the historical record being alleged to show that it had been fulfilled. In actual fact, the matching was typically closer to only ten percent.
 
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Actually, you are the one who is unable to present proof of your claims

Begging your pardon, Biblewriter, but did you even read what you copied above? I used the context of Zechariah 14 itself to prove my point.

Can't you recognize that someone's hand "rising up against the hand of his neighbor" in Zechariah 14:13-14 is a civil war taking place in the city of Jerusalem? With even the law-giver tribe of Judah fighting at Jerusalem?

Can't you recognize that this "siege against Judah and Jerusalem", which Zechariah 12:1 said was going to happen, would not be halted at Christ's return, but would continue afterward until the city was taken, the houses rifled, the women ravished, and half of the city going into captivity, with the spoils being divided in the midst of the city? Zechariah 14:1-2 said that all these things would take place. Nobody was able to flee from these disasters in the besieged city through a supposed newly-created Mount of Olives valley. The division of the spoils when Jerusalem was taken was going to include "gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance". We know that Jerusalem's Temple had been a repository for all kinds of gifts coming from other heathen nations, in addition to the gold with which Herod had adorned the Temple. When the city was taken in AD 70, these spoils were gathered together by the conquering Romans, which is what Zechariah 14:14 was prophesying would happen.

Can't you recognize the signs of rapid starvation when you read that "their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth"? Those three competing Zealot factions within Jerusalem itself were their own worst enemy, even before Rome arrived in AD 70. In a suicidal impulse, they burned up the city's own grain supply stores, which would have sustained those in Jerusalem for a long time against the coming Roman siege. This created immediate and overwhelming starvation conditions for the unfortunate inhabitants of Jerusalem at that time, who were prevented by the Zealots from leaving the city (Wars 5.1.4, 21-26).
 
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Begging your pardon, Biblewriter, but did you even read what you copied above? I used the context of Zechariah 14 itself to prove my point.

Can't you recognize that someone's hand "rising up against the hand of his neighbor" in Zechariah 14:13-14 is a civil war taking place in the city of Jerusalem? With even the law-giver tribe of Judah fighting at Jerusalem?

Can't you recognize that this "siege against Judah and Jerusalem", which Zechariah 12:1 said was going to happen, would not be halted at Christ's return, but would continue afterward until the city was taken, the houses rifled, the women ravished, and half of the city going into captivity, with the spoils being divided in the midst of the city? Zechariah 14:1-2 said that all these things would take place. Nobody was able to flee from these disasters in the besieged city through a supposed newly-created Mount of Olives valley. The division of the spoils when Jerusalem was taken was going to include "gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance". We know that Jerusalem's Temple had been a repository for all kinds of gifts coming from other heathen nations, in addition to the gold with which Herod had adorned the Temple. When the city was taken in AD 70, these spoils were gathered together by the conquering Romans, which is what Zechariah 14:14 was prophesying would happen.

Can't you recognize the signs of rapid starvation when you read that "their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth"? Those three competing Zealot factions within Jerusalem itself were their own worst enemy, even before Rome arrived in AD 70. In a suicidal impulse, they burned up the city's own grain supply stores, which would have sustained those in Jerusalem for a long time against the coming Roman siege. This created immediate and overwhelming starvation conditions for the unfortunate inhabitants of Jerusalem at that time, who were prevented by the Zealots from leaving the city (Wars 5.1.4, 21-26).
Yes, I read what you said, and was amazed that you could be so careless with the text you are trying to interpret. Zechariah 14:12 Very explicitly says who verses 13-14 are about.

12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: (Zechariah 14:12a)

So the people who, in their panic, will attack each other, will not be the Jews in Jerusalem, but the gentile nations that had attacked them. This attack is discussed in MANY other scriptures, from Psalm 83 through Isaiah 10 to Zechariah 14:2, along with many other passages


And the plague with which they will be stricken does not even resemble the slow wasting away of starvation. "Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

People who starve to death become so weak that they cannot stand on their feet, long before they die. And starvation neither causes the eyes to dissolve not=r their tongues to dissolve. It is strictly nonsense to even imagine that this is a description of starvation.

Nor can I even conceive the gross stupidity of imagining that a siege even could continue, for even an instant, when Christ appears in power and glory, leading a vast army out of the sky. EVERYONE would abandon whatever they were doing and flee in absolute panic. This would include both the besiegers and the besieged.

And, yes, I have studied the writings of Josephus, and have been impressed at how drastically the details of the accounts he wrote differ from the details of the prophecies you imagine were fulfilled at that time.

As I said before, MOST the details of these historical accounts differ DRASTICALLY from MOST of the details in the prophecies you imagine were fulfilled at that time.
 
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Biblewriter, the nations which came against Jerusalem were the Zealot factions which originated from "Galilee of the Gentiles". You of course will remember "Judas of Galilee" in Acts 5:37 who led an insurrection against Rome. Zealotry originating from "Galilee of the Gentiles" was the cause of the holy city being trampled underfoot for 42 months. Rome wasn't in Jerusalem from AD 66 when Cestius Gallus was driven from the city and defeated until Titus came in April of AD 70. In between late AD 66 and early AD 70, it was the Zealots who were the ones busily preying upon their own people. These Zealot factions from "Galilee of the Gentiles" were the "nations" that the Lord fought against in Zechariah 12:2.

This matches the Scarlet Beast's ten horns who "hated the harlot" that Jerusalem's religious leadership had turned into by its collaboration with Rome for profit . These "ten horns" were the ten generals chosen in Jerusalem to prepare for the coming war with the Romans. Josephus lists all ten horns / generals in Wars 2.20.3-4. These ten horns / generals were not kings, but they had power as if they were kings for a brief period of time - only one "hour" - the "hour" that it took to bring Jerusalem down.

That Scarlet Beast's ten horns would end up making Jerusalem desolate and naked, and would eat her flesh and burn her with fire (Revelation 17:16). This is exactly what Zechariah 13:6 said that the governors of Judah would do. "In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem." This was the re-establishment of a independent kingdom nation of Israel at the beginning of the Zealot rebellion in AD 66. They took advantage of the people they were holding captive in Jerusalem for their own purposes, and in the process, they only succeeded in treading Jerusalem down for those 42 months.

And the plague with which they will be stricken does not even resemble the slow wasting away of starvation. "Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

People who starve to death become so weak that they cannot stand on their feet, long before they die. And starvation neither causes the eyes to dissolve not=r their tongues to dissolve. It is strictly nonsense to even imagine that this is a description of starvation.

This language of Zechariah's was meant to portray the sudden onset of starvation, brought about by an immediate loss of food, which is what happened when the Zealots burned up all the city's grain reserves. With the mass of humanity besieged inside the city, desperate hunger began immediately to ravage the inhabitants. Zechariah paints a vivid picture of starving humanity at this point. Sorry you can't catch the symbolism.

Nor can I even conceive the gross stupidity of imagining that a siege even could continue, for even an instant, when Christ appears in power and glory, leading a vast army out of the sky. EVERYONE would abandon whatever they were doing and flee in absolute panic. This would include both the besiegers and the besieged.

You are forgetting something: that demonic activity was rife in the city during those years from AD 66 until AD 70, just as Christ promised would happen to that wicked generation in its "last state" (Matthew 12:43-45). People oppressed or possessed by demons do not act rationally. John prophesied that Jerusalem would have "every unclean spirit" imprisoned in the city during those days (Revelation 18:2). If Zechariah says that the siege against Judah and Jerusalem would continue until the city was taken, the people taken captive, and the spoil divided, even with Christ's return taking place during that time, then that is what would happen. You can't re-write the prophecy according to your suppositions.
 
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DavidPT

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Can't you recognize the signs of rapid starvation when you read that "their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth"?


I know I can't. That is a bizarre interpretation of that verse. That verse pertains to what happens during the 2nd coming.
 
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I know I can't. That is a bizarre interpretation of that verse. That verse pertains to what happens during the 2nd coming.

You're right, that IS what happens around the time of the second coming; the coming that Christ told His disciples was "ABOUT TO come to pass", along with all the tribulations in the list that He gave them in Luke 21:8-35. When Christ was done enumerating those tribulations, including the description of His second coming in Luke 21:27, Christ cautioned the disciples, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are ABOUT TO come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." (Luke 21:39). That included the second coming that was on the near horizon for that generation.

You and I are not waiting for Christ's second coming. We are waiting for Christ's THIRD coming in the future at the close of fallen mankind's history.
 
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