For you democrat's...

Paulos23 · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
Do you support the government receiving all of your banking transactions for the year?

Are you ok with a completely open border where we have no idea who is coming in?

Are you ok with the DOJ setting up a phone line so people can call to get someone investigated by the FBI from a school board meeting with no evidence it is a chronic problem.

All of these policies reduce your freedom and liberty. How much freedom will they have to take away before you will stand up Biden and his ilk? To save our freedoms we need you democrat's to start pushing back on these policies and overreaching power grabs by the government. If you don't, then they will soon come for something you disagree with and you will be power less to stop it. Trump was right when he said "they are not coming after me, they are coming after you, I am just in the way." He did not just mean conservatives, he meant all of us.

What freedoms do you think we should fight for?

I have been trying to figure out what freedoms you are worried about here, and I had to come to the conclusion you want less government oversight, freedom to threaten others, and less immigration. The problem is none of those are "more freedom" and are turning us to less freedom if the trend to less government continues and allows others to form their own power base over others.

So the question is, do you want some other groups that you have no say in to have power over you rather than a government that you have some say in?

seeking.IAM · Oct 13, 2021

dogs4thewin said:
but as long as that side hustle is legal what difference does it make? Unless they have proof or at least reason to very strongly suspect that the income is coming from an illegal source it is none of their business.

It's their business if you don't pay taxes on your side hustle.

Desk trauma · Oct 13, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
Income still has to be reported for tax purposes when it's from a legal source. The goal, as far as I'm aware, isn't to root out illegal income streams, but rather to find income that people aren't reporting.

Income is supposed to be reported regardless of legality and tax evasion charges can be applied to those who don't report illegal income.

Albion · Oct 13, 2021

Paulos23 said:
I have been trying to figure out what freedoms you are worried about here, and I had to come to the conclusion you want less government oversight, freedom to threaten others, and less immigration.

Maybe a little more "figuring" is in order.

GOD Shines Forth! · Oct 13, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
What a weird philosophy on government. In virtually every other context, less government oversight is seen by libertarians as an increase in freedom regardless of whether or not that oversight is deployed as a bulwark against other, non-governmental forces (e.g. big business) that would inhibit freedoms in other ways. But apparently when it's foreigners who would supposedly inhibit our freedoms, government doing less is still government doing more.

Weird to you. My post rejected your argument, did you miss that? Doubling down won't sway me.

Halbhh · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
Do you support the government receiving all of your banking transactions for the year?

Are you ok with a completely open border where we have no idea who is coming in?

Are you ok with the DOJ setting up a phone line so people can call to get someone investigated by the FBI from a school board meeting with no evidence it is a chronic problem.

All of these policies reduce your freedom and liberty. How much freedom will they have to take away before you will stand up Biden and his ilk? To save our freedoms we need you democrat's to start pushing back on these policies and overreaching power grabs by the government. If you don't, then they will soon come for something you disagree with and you will be power less to stop it. Trump was right when he said "they are not coming after me, they are coming after you, I am just in the way." He did not just mean conservatives, he meant all of us.

What freedoms do you think we should fight for?

Not a democrat here -- have voted for I think more Republicans over the years than democrats. But I thought it might be interesting to answer anyway.

Do you support the government receiving all of your banking transactions for the year? -- Yes, as that's a way for the normal law enforcement of the U.S. to catch Organized Crime activities, tax evasion, and so on.

Stuff like drug trafficking -- such as fentanyl, that has killed so many young Americans.

https://ips-dc.org/drug_trafficking_and_money_laundering/

Are you against that law enforcement?

It's worth thinking on if you didn't realize why bank accounts are monitored.

"Are you ok with a completely open border where we have no idea who is coming in?" -- Nope. And neither is anyone else probably. But I'm also not in favor of the closed to most immigrants border either. Not in favor of either extreme. Instead, I'd continue the old and constant American tradition of allowing some immigration.

Why did you ask about "completely open border"? -- Were you really trying to ask about immigration in general as an issue instead?

I'm not xenophobic, and don't feel alarmed if we have East European, Chinese or African immigrants, or Latino, etc.

GOD Shines Forth! · Oct 13, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
By the way it is completely naïve to think this is all innocent! The IRS has a history of being weaponized to go after one's political enemies.

Truth. The doe-eyed naifs, who don't know nuthin' about nuthin' routine is so tired and played out. We should ALL be concerned about consolidated power. All of us.

iluvatar5150 · Oct 13, 2021

GOD Shines Forth! said:
Weird to you. My post rejected your argument, did you miss that? Doubling down won't sway me.

Not only did I not miss the argument, I commented on its inconsistencies. You're basically arguing that the government is exercising more control by taking a laissez faire approach and letting immigrants and the market do its dirty work for it. For the record, I actually agree with this philosophy of "freedom" that sees increased government oversight/regulation/control as a potential tool for maximizing personal freedom, if that government control is employed in a way that mitigates other incursions on personal freedom. Like, if having police patrolling my streets keeps me from getting murdered, then that government oversight results in a net increase in my personal freedom.

But IME it's rare to see that philosophy adopted by anyone complaining about "government overreach," which makes me wonder if the concern is really about government overreach or about the immigrants themselves.

Halbhh · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
...

All of these policies reduce your freedom and liberty. How much freedom will they have to take away before you will stand up Biden and his ilk? ...

What freedoms do you think we should fight for?

Actually ordinary law enforcement of tax laws, by monitoring bank transactions, doesn't reduce my freedom at all.

Also, having some immigrants from around the world doesn't reduce my freedom either.

I'm wondering to myself -- are you feeling un-free?

I have a hypothesis about why you might feel unfree, but the hypothesis I have has nothing to do with tax laws and immigrants, so I wonder if you might gain from looking more closely into that.

Clizby WampusCat · Oct 13, 2021

iluvatar5150 said:
eh. I trust the banks less than the government. The banks already have that information and the government can already get that with a warrant. Either way, that's not what the new rule proposes. What it proposes is merely a total of the flow into and out of the account, not a reporting of each transaction.

Banks have an interest in protecting your privacy, the government does not. I trust the banks way more than the government. They have the right to tax yo on your income. To do that they don't need to know your total outflow from your account in any year. If your income does not match your reported income they will surely get your entire transaction history to see what they can tax. Whenever you give the government more information you give the government more power over you. They don't need the information, they want it.

No, though I'm okay with something a lot closer to than than to what we have now. Either way, nobody I'm aware of is proposing that.

Do we know who is coming into this country or not? We do not. I am for immigration but not illegal immigration. Why should we let criminals or terrorists etc. into our country? Surely you can agree that some people coming over the border are criminals right?

AFAIK, you've always been able to call up any law enforcement agency and report a crime.

I agree. But why the specific hotline for school board meetings where there are not problems the local authorities can not handle. It is more government power being exerted.

No, they don't. The bank reporting rule is a marginal infringement at best. Open borders represents more freedom, not less. And I have no idea what you're talking about with respect to the phone line.

We have laws to protect the rights of others. Making theft legal would be more freedom not less right? We have immigration laws to protect our citizens from people that would harm us.

Clizby WampusCat · Oct 13, 2021

pacomascarot said:
You know what the Dems really like? They like using apostrophes in places where they aren't needed like in plurals as opposed to possessives!

The people we need to keep out of this mighty country are people who understand how English language is written.

These are serious issues so why not let the adults have a conversation.

Clizby WampusCat · Oct 13, 2021

Desk trauma said:
Ones that are actually under threat.

Do you think any are?

Desk trauma · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
Do you think any are?

Yes, but not from the Democratic side of the aisle and not at the federal level.

Clizby WampusCat · Oct 13, 2021

Halbhh said:
Actually ordinary law enforcement of tax laws, by monitoring bank transactions, doesn't reduce my freedom at all.

Sure it does. It gives the government more access to your information that they do not need.

Also, having some immigrants from around the world doesn't reduce my freedom either.

I am not talking about legal immigrants. I am talking about the illegal people crossing the border that we have no idea who they are or why they are here. Some are criminals and these people will reduce your freedoms. Do you think it is ok for people to come into the US that we have no idea who they are or why they are here?

I'm wondering to myself -- are you feeling un-free?

I have a hypothesis about why you might feel unfree, but the hypothesis I have has nothing to do with tax laws and immigrants, so I wonder if you might gain from looking more closely into that.

Done that. Simply provide good evidence that God is real and I will consider it.

Clizby WampusCat · Oct 13, 2021

Desk trauma said:
Yes, but not from the Democratic side of the aisle and not at the federal level.

Which ones?

Desk trauma · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
Which ones?

Voting and reproductive rights.

Pavel Mosko · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
Sure it does. It gives the government more access to your information that they do not need.

Yes if this was a Trump initiative I don't think they would be so congenial. I'm pretty sure this would be about racism and oppression of the poor etc.

pacomascarot · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
These are serious issues so why not let the adults have a conversation.

Most adults have had 4th grade english class. But by all means...

Clizby WampusCat · Oct 13, 2021

Paulos23 said:
I have been trying to figure out what freedoms you are worried about here, and I had to come to the conclusion you want less government oversight, freedom to threaten others, and less immigration. The problem is none of those are "more freedom" and are turning us to less freedom if the trend to less government continues and allows others to form their own power base over others.

You are wrong. I want unnecessary government oversight, let local authorities take care of threats to others when they are capable of doing that and as much legal immigration as we can handle.

So the question is, do you want some other groups that you have no say in to have power over you rather than a government that you have some say in?

Who would that be?

iluvatar5150 · Oct 13, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
Banks have an interest in protecting your privacy,

How do you figure?

Banks have an interest in maximizing their own profits. Where that intersects with increased customer privacy is when privacy is sold as a feature to customers. But otherwise, purchasing habits (even if anonymized) are a gold mine of information that many businesses, including banks, buy, sell, and/or otherwise utilize for their own gain:
https://www.courthousenews.com/banks-profit-from-selling-your-spending-data/

the government does not. I trust the banks way more than the government. They have the right to tax yo on your income. To do that they don't need to know your total outflow from your account in any year. If your income does not match your reported income they will surely get your entire transaction history to see what they can tax.

The banking information is an attempt to see if your reported income matches the amount of money you've actually received.

Do we know who is coming into this country or not? We do not.

How do you figure?

I am for immigration but not illegal immigration.

As far as I know, "open borders" describes a policy for legal immigration wherein anybody is allowed to enter the country. Are you working with some different definition?

Why should we let criminals or terrorists etc. into our country? Surely you can agree that some people coming over the border are criminals right?

Sure, which is why I said I don't support truly open borders.

I agree. But why the specific hotline for school board meetings where there are not problems the local authorities can not handle. It is more government power being exerted.

What specific hotline?

For you democrat's...

Never tell me the odds!

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