Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

Bob S said:

Paul certainly wrote that the ten were the ministry that brought death ☠ was only a temporary law that was replaced with the law of the Spirit. 2Cor 3:7-11 In Rom 8:2 he certainly did refer to the ten as the law of sin and death.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Rom8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

1Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

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Romans not 1 Cor. We can speak on that if we get through this.
In Chapter 7 Two laws are mention. The law of God and another law in his flesh warring against the law of God that is in his mind.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

HIM said:

So you think the Law of sin is the Ten Commandments? No.

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They were under a curse.

Jesus broke us from all of that curse. OF THE LAW


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

HIM said:

Romans not 1 Cor. We can speak on that if we get through this.
In Chapter 7 Two laws are mention. The law of God and another law in his flesh warring against the law of God that is in his mind.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

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The law in the members is the law that works death.

Carnal mind is death ( to have the Spiritual mind of Christ through the faith of Christ is life)


2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.




Israel in the law delighted after God...



Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.



The mistake of Israel and all sabbath worshippers is the same mistake of law..



Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Bob S said:

I delight what I do that pleases God, but when I do something that hurts my fellow man it wars against the law of love that is in my mind.

Since I am not under the dictates of the ceremonial and civil laws of the old covenant there is no waring going on in my mind concerning them.

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The warring goes on, to fight the good fight of faith, and not to stop enduring, as a good soldier of Christ, as charity endures all things..


1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

klutedavid said:

They are taught to divide the law into different categories. Very few would have the ability to navigate their way through the scripture, and correctly comprehend the revelation of the Christ.

Very few indeed.

Romans 3:21
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 7:8
But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

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Yes, it makes sense that they are taught to divide the law into categories. What goes through their mind when they come to a law like this? How do they decide what category it goes into?

Deuteronomy 25:5 If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead shall not be married outside to a stranger. Her husband’s brother shall go in to her, and take her as his wife, and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her.

It doesn't seem to do much good to ask one of "them"
(I don't really like dividing into Us and Them, but I can't think of a better way to word this).

When I've asked in the past, they tend to go silent, or want to just talk about the 10.

Bob S said:

Moral laws are forever. How we are to treat God and our fellow man are laws that remain forever. The nine laws being moral are part of the Law of ❤. If the Sabbath were a moral law, it too would be a law forever. The fact is we know that the covenant given to Israel ended when the new covenant was established at Calvary. The ten commandments were the laws of the old covenant of which the Sabbath law was a part. The reason some come up with excuses that Jesus didn't fulfill, bring to an end, the old covenant is to try to make the Israelite Sabbath a law for new covenant believers. Gal 3 is a great chapter to read concerning the Lawand those trying to put the Galatians under the old covenant laws.

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Okay, now, if laws about how we treat our fellow man are laws that remain forever, is this then an eternal law?

Leviticus 19:13 The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.

Do I remember right that you used to be some flavor of "law keeper"? SDA? Do SDA people talk about that law?

I've tried asking people who identify as SDA here on CF, but they pretty much want to talk about just the 10.

Bob S said:

Seems like that WAS the "moral" thing to do. Jesus didn't mention it and it is not found in the New Testament. Some things, it seems, cannot be explained and better left alone.

I do believe that we have a moral obligation to widows in need.

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Yes, I think a law is a moral law if it feels like it has a moral aspect to do it.

For me, the moral aspect of the Sabbath laws is to remember God in all that we do, 24/7.
imo.

To relate it to the thread topic, I think that one way that Jesus fulfilled the law was to send the holy Spirit who then guides us in what to do.

And we can gain wisdom by getting input from the law.

Leaf473 said:

Yes, I think a law is a moral law if it feels like it has a moral aspect to do it.

For me, the moral aspect of the Sabbath laws is to remember God in all that we do, 24/7.
imo.

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While we all have free will, I do find it amazing people add their own interpretation to God's holy Sabbath day when God literally spelled it out for us with His own finger.

This here:

Leaf473 said:

For me, the moral aspect of the Sabbath laws is to remember God in all that we do, 24/7.

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Is not what God says here- nor anywhere in the bible.

Exodus 20:8-118 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Bob S said:

I delight what I do that pleases God, but when I do something that hurts my fellow man it wars against the law of love that is in my mind.

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There is no Law of love mentioned in chapter 7. The Law mentioned is the Ten Commandments. How do we know? Because one of them is mentioned in reference to knowing what sin is.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Bob S said:

Since I am not under the dictates of the ceremonial and civil laws of the old covenant there is no waring going on in my mind concerning them.

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So now it is the ceremonial and civil laws that Paul was referring to in Romans 7 and not the Ten Commandments.

Bob S said:

Paul certainly wrote that the ten were the ministry that brought death ☠...

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HIM said:

There is no Law of love mentioned in chapter 7. The Law mentioned is the Ten Commandments. How do we know? Because one of them is mentioned in reference to knowing what sin is.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So now it is the ceremonial and civil laws that Paul was referring to in Romans 7 and not the Ten Commandments.

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"In chapter 7. The Law mentioned is the Ten Commandments."

"So now it is the ceremonial and civil laws that Paul was referring to in Romans 7 and not the Ten Commandments."



It is or is not the ten commandments ?

It cant be both ways can it, but as you also said, the law of not coveting was mentioned directly.



The law is not of faith, it is simple enough to know.


Anyone who teaches faith, cant teach law at the same time.


Anyone who teaches law, is not teaching the faith of Christ.


If someone teaches the faith of Christ, thy do so by example and not by debate/dispute/words.



The Apostle Paul is our example, following Christ, people on forums are not.




1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

prophecy_uk said:

The law in the members is the law that works death.

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Yes which is the Law of sin. Which is; without Christ we have no control. To will is present, but how to perform we find, perceive not. For the Good that we want to do we do not. But the evil that we would not that we do through the Sin that dwells in us.
Evil is present with us without Christ Warring against the law of our mind. However He has delivered us from this body of death, Making us free from the Law of sin AND death. Condemning sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us who walk after His Spirit and not after the flesh.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It seems to me there's a minority group appealing to latter-day theology which basically says that being a Christian means practicing pseudo-Judaism.

Which of course is something that the Christian Church never came close to teaching from the beginning.

Being a Christian means being Christ-like. Jesus asked us to keep the commandments, Jesus kept the commandments of His Father and came to magnify God's laws which He does from the inside out. Matthew 5:17-30 You cannot separate God from God's laws that are in the Most Holy of God's temple now written in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant.

SabbathBlessings said:

While we all have free will, I do find it amazing people add their own interpretation to God's holy Sabbath day when God literally spelled it out for us with His own finger.

This here:


Is not what God says here- nor anywhere in the bible.

Exodus 20:8-118 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

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I hear what you're saying. Now, what happens if we take that same reasoning and apply it to this law?

Leviticus 19:13 The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.

Leaf473 said:

I hear what you're saying. Now, what happens if we take that same reasoning and apply it to this law?

Leviticus 19:13 The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.

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What do you think this verse means? Here it is in the full context

13 Thou shalt not oppress thy neighbor, nor rob him: the wages of a hired servant shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.