The nonsense of "faith produces works"

Guojing said:

When you say the gospel of the kingdom is being preached right now, where are some examples you see that happening?

Anyone preaching "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"?

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No, just the message of fearing God, to give Him glory, as the hour of His judgement is come ( they repent not any more, I just showed that for you ( keep up, or better still, hear and do not speak )..

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

prophecy_uk said:

No, just the message of fearing God, to give Him glory, as the hour of His judgement is come ( they repent not any more, I just showed that for you ( keep up, or better still, hear and do not speak )..

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

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If that is the case, that is not the gospel of the kingdom.

Guojing said:

Anyone preaching "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"?

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I don't count?

timothyu said:

I don't count?

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Sure you count in this scenario..

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?


Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

timothyu said:

I don't count?

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Do you display the same signs and wonders in Matthew 10:8, or mark 16:17?

Are you preaching that in Israel?

Your answers for both should be no correct? Then don’t kid yourself, you are not preaching the gospel of the kingdom as Jesus and the 12 did.

Guojing said:

Then don’t kid yourself, you are not preaching the gospel of the kingdom as Jesus and the 12 did.

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I have no need to prove myself. They already did. All I have to do is repeat the message that the will of man over the will of God is soon over, His governance over us will replace our governance over each other. Repent of those self serving human ways or face extinction in the new Kingdom. 'Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.'

timothyu said:

I have no need to prove myself. They already did. All I have to do is repeat the message that the will of man over the will of God is soon over, His governance over us will replace our governance over each other. Repent of those self serving human ways or face extinction in the new Kingdom. 'Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.'

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The message comes with signs and wonders.

Merely repeating the message, minus the signs, does not equate to preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

You will see a difference during the Tribulation, those who are preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel then, will be accompanied by signs and wonders once again (Revelation 11:6)

Guojing said:

You will see a difference during the Tribulation, those who are preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel then, will be accompanied by signs and wonders once again

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Most likely, but for now not standing on the street corner in my finery for all to see is ok by me.

timothyu said:

Most likely, but for now not standing on the street corner in my finery for all to see is ok by me.

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You are suppose to be preaching, instead, that Christ died for Man's sins and rose again on the 3rd day for his justification (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Only that gospel saves today.

Guojing said:

Only that gospel saves today.

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Yeah but that is not Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom, the one He said He was sent to proclaim. I'll stick with the original.

timothyu said:

Yeah but that is not Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom, the one He said He was sent to proclaim. I'll stick with the original.

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That is true, but you don't understand the contrast between Matthew 15:24 and Romans 11:13?

Jesus raised Paul, after Israel rejected the gospel of the kingdom, to have him instruct you.

Guojing said:

Jesus raised Paul, after Israel rejected the gospel of the kingdom, to have him instruct you.

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Very convenient of a church that abandoned the Kingdom to harlot itself to the Roman Empire to teach that.
However...
Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Kingdom of God.. Jesus' only Gospel. Paul has been misrepresented to fit the Roman Gentile narrative. He who controls the doctrine controls the narrative. Scripture says otherwise..

timothyu said:

Very convenient of a church that abandoned the Kingdom to harlot itself to the Roman Empire to teach that.
However...
Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Kingdom of God.. Jesus' only Gospel. Paul has been misrepresented to fit the Roman Gentile narrative. He who controls the doctrine controls the narrative. Scripture says otherwise..

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To be clear, are you reasoning like this?

Since Paul preached the Kingdom of God
and Jesus also preached the Kingdom of God

Therefore Jesus and Paul must be preaching the same gospel

Guojing said:

Therefore Jesus and Paul must be preaching the same gospel

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They were, yes. The Gospel of the Kingdom, the good news of God governing mankind among mankind once again. Not a popular concept among self serving man and our institutions including religion. Their day will be done. The god of this world, mammon, gone. The salvation gospel that became the controlling narrative was an add on but definitely not the main gospel. It's not about us and what we can get out of what Jesus accomplished. It is about the will of the Father and His return. Why does man want to continually put himself first? Selfish self centred lot.

timothyu said:

They were, yes. The Gospel of the Kingdom, the good news of God governing mankind among mankind once again. Not a popular concept among self serving man and our institutions including religion. Their day will be done. The god of this world, mammon, gone. The salvation gospel that became the controlling narrative was an add on but definitely not the main gospel. It's not about us and what we can get out of what Jesus accomplished. It is about the will of the Father and His return. Why does man want to continually put himself first? Selfish self centred lot.

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What if you hear a reasoning as follow?

I preached that my wife had long hair and wearing dresses.
Someone else also preached his wife had long hair and wearing dresses.

Therefore we must be talking about/married to the same woman.

Would you laugh and immediately realized the illogical reasoning?

Guojing said:

Therefore we must be talking about/married to the same woman.

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So you are saying there are two different Gospels of the Kingdom?

timothyu said:

So you are saying there are two different Gospels of the Kingdom?

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I am saying

There is the gospel of the kingdom Matthew 4:23

There is the gospel of the grace of God Acts 20:24

Just because both gospels can contain grace, can have the Kingdom of God, it does not automatically make them the same gospel.

Guojing said:

I am saying

There is the gospel of the kingdom Matthew 4:23

There is the gospel of the grace of God Acts 20:24

Just because both gospels can contain grace, can have the Kingdom of God, it does not automatically make them the same gospel.

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Don't worry, I am here to help you both.





Firstly I will show you who the 2 witnesses are ( according to Gods own interpretation for you)



John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.





If you do not get it so far, the Father and the Son are the two, ( Jesus fulfils the law in all)

The Lamb of God ( this is God) is the seven Spirits sent forth into all the earth.

The seven pipes go to the seven lamps.

Two olive trees stand by it....




Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.




The house has its foundation laid, and His hands also finish it.

The plummet in the hand are the seven eyes of the Lord, running to and fro through the whole earth.


Zechariah 4:9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.



The two olive trees/branches, empty the golden oil out of themselves.

The two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth...




Zechariah 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.



I do not need to show what the oil out of Jesus means ?

Jesus Christ gave His blood for us all.

Jesus then is on the right hand of power ( He is then God on the throne, took to Him His great power to reign)

No other foundation but Jesus Christ.

Jesus built the house ( as well as laying the foundation)

God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost.

Although the Son and the Father testifying are two witnesses, the Son and the Father are one ( they two, then are, the anointed, one)..




Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Guojing said:

You quoted Peter saying Acts 10:35, it already said "works righteousness". Peter believed works are necessary for one to be righteous.

That is the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus said the same thing in Matthew 5:17-19.

That is not the gospel that saves today, as you already quoted from Paul.

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All Christians are in the the church that is found in the new testament,

Romans 16:16
Greet one another with a Holy kiss. The churches of Christ greet you.

If you cannot say you are in the church of Christ as Paul was, as all 1st. Century christians were, then you are not in the Biblical church that was established by Jesus Christ.

What church are you in Guojing?

Paul was clear there was only Jesus' gospel.

Galatians 1:6-7
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,

WHICH IS NOT ANOTHER ; but there are some who trouble you( men like Guojing) and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Paul was clear, there is one gospel.

Guojing you go against Jesus and Paul and say there is multiple gospels. You will answer for denying the scriptures.

Give me an answer Guojing,

The church at Corinth had both jew and gentiles worshiping together on the first day of the week, Acts 20:7 and throughout the week.

Now explain how jew and gentile both heard different gospels as you claim in fellowship with one another on the Lords day?

Did the church at Corinth hve a worship service for the jewish christians then have a seperate worship service and another gospel for the gentile Christians?

If jews and gentiles who were christians worshipped together as they clearly did at the church in Corinth. How is that possible if there are as you claim a gospel only for gentiles and a gospel only for the jews?

If your church's doctrine of two gospels is true then Jews and gentiles in the same church could not have heard the same gospel on the Lords day, yet that is exactly what they did hear preached, the one true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:44
On the next Sabbath ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY CAME TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD. The whole city was gentiles and jews!!!!

Both jew and gentile heard the ONE gospel preached by Paul this day.

Acts 13:45-47
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming they opposed the things spoken by Paul,

Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, it was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold we turn to the Gentiles.

For the Lord has commanded us: I have set you as a light to the gentiles, that you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.

The very next verse says many gentiles believed right then and there!!!

Paul preached to the multitudes both jew and gentile the gospel.

Gentiles hearing this gospel from Paul believed.

This was the same gospel the Jews heard for they also were a part of the multitude, and many Jews rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ.

There was only one gospel Paul was preaching to jew and gentiles in Acts 13:. Paul had not even began to go and preach only to gentiles at this time in his ministry.

Therefore both jew and gentile were obeying and rejecting this one gospel Paul was preaching at this time.

If two gospels why was gentiles believing Paul's gospel preaching and being saved before Paul went specifically to the gentiles after this occurred in Acts 13?

The obvious and honest answer is, Paul's gospel he preached to jews was the same gospel he preached to gentiles. Acts 13 confirms this fact.

Now the jew and gentile church at Corinth,

Acts 14:1
Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews and so spoke that a great multitude BOTH OF JEWS AND OF THE GREEKS BELIEVED.

Here agian Paul's gospel was preached to jew and gentile!!!!

They both believed this ONE GOSPEL!!!

They both were saved by this one gospel of Jesus Christ.

Read the entire chapter of Acts 14.

You will learn both Jews and Gentiles were being saved by Paul's preaching. And both jew and gentile were added to THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!!!

Acts 14:21-22
And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch,

Strengthening souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in THE FAITH, and saying, We must through many tribulations ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

So they had appointed elders in every church and prayed with fasting, they commended them(jew and greek) to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Now Paul is going to tell the Christian jews not to circumcise the Christian gentile converts to Christ.

Paul preached and converted these jews and gentiles with the same gospel.

Acts 15:1-11
Verse 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through phoenicia and samaria, describing the conversion of the gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.

And when they had come to Jerusalem, they(Paul and Barnabas) they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders: and they reported all things that God had done with them.

But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying It is necessary to circumcise them(gentile christians) and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Now the apostles(All of the apostles: Paul, Peter etc.) And elders came together to consider this matter.

And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: Men and brethren you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,

And made NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN US AND THEM, purifying their hearts by faith.

Now Peter is going to teach that Jews and gentiles are both saved in the same manner!!!

If the gospel of the Jews according to dispensationalism is a works based gospel and the gentile gospel is a grace and no works based gospel, HOW CAN PETER SAY BOTH JEW AND GENTILE WILL BE SAVED IN THE SAME MANNER?

Verse 11
But we believe that through the GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ WE(both jew and gentile saved by grace) SHALL BE SAVED IN THE SAME MANNER AS THEY.

Verse12
Then all the multitude(Jews and gentiles) kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked them among the gentiles

There is overwhelming evidence that both jew and gentile were saved by the same gospel of Jesus Christ preached by all the apostles.

It is an imaginary man made false doctrine that there is more than one gospel of Jesus Christ.

The gospel is for all, Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, for it is the power of God to salvation FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES, FOR THE JEW FIRST AND ALSO FOR THE GREEK.

Guojing said:

I am saying

There is the gospel of the kingdom Matthew 4:23

There is the gospel of the grace of God Acts 20:24

Just because both gospels can contain grace, can have the Kingdom of God, it does not automatically make them the same gospel.

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Hi dear, let me clarify for us all, shall I ?


Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom, all men press i/into it, but Christ has to give grace by laying His life down.

That is what 1 Corinthians 15 says, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

Which goes very well with Acts 20, how the Gospel, is the Gospel of grace ( without Jesus dying and rising there is no grace and no Holy Spirit or love of God for us)..





Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.