Can An Evangelical Sunday Worshiper Actually Become a Seven Day Adventist: Its More Than Just The D

anoymous51 said:

I know somebody personally who is a Seventh Day Adventist who was dating a girl from a non Denominational background.

They had an on again off again relationship.

His parents were not very pleased about the relationship because they are very old school traditional SDAs. From sundown Friday to sundown Saturday; they observe the Sabbath very much like orthodox Jews, believe in the prophetical status of Ellen G White, and practice veganism.

Even though the girl has said that she converted SDA, he still broke up with her because it did not seem that she was serious enough about the faith.

He and his parents have been trying to get me to convert to SDA; but, its more than just about observing the Sabbath(Friday/Saturday) instead of the first day of the week(Sunday).

If it were just only about the day of worship, there would really be no problem.

After all, there are Seventh Day Baptist and Messianic Jews.

SDAs of course believe in personal salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ; but, there are some deep theological differences on some major issues:



First and foremost, SDAs believe in keeping Seventh Day Sabbath. Evangelicals keep Sunday(the first day of the week).

2. SDAs believe in soul sleep or unconsciousness after death. Evangelicals believe in consciousness after death or the immortality of the soul.

3. SDAs adhere to the doctrine of annihilation (which I hope they are right about) Matt 7:13-14. Evangelicals believe in an everlasting burning hell.

4. SDA follow the Old Testament dietary laws which prohibits eating pork and other split hoof animals. Evangelicals do not.

5. SDAs are never completely sure of their salvation (due to the investigative Judgement) and believe you can loose it. Evangelicals are very sure of salvation.

6. SDAs believe in the prima scriptura prophetic status of Ellen G White. The Great Controversy is a like a second Bible. Of course, Evangelicals do not.

7. SDAs believe in the heavenly sanctuary. I don't think Evangelicals do.

On issues of prophecy, both Seventh Day Adventist Sunday Evangelicals believe that the anti-Christ will come from Rome. However, they differ in their interpretation of who it will be. The SDA believes that the Roman Catholic Church or the Papacy is the anti Christ system. The mark of the beast will be enforced Sunday worship someday. Most Christians believe the anti-Christ will be a single person from Western Europe(The revived Roman Empire) or a future UN secretary general under a New World Order. A minority view is that the anti-Christ will come from the Middle East. The mark of the beast will be a microchip or a mark on the forehead. SDAs do not believe in the rapture whereas most Evangelicals do.

SDAs and Evangelicals both believe in the millennium kingdom; but the former believes it is going to be in heaven and the latter thinks it going to be on earth.

The Investigative Judgement is a little to complicated for me to understand.

I have heard of people who were formerly Sunday worshippers converting to Seventh Day Adventism, but it would really take some deep theological reconditioning on many beliefs.

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Note that several of the beliefs you attribute to Evangelicals are not universally held, such as the Eschatology we see dramatically depicted in media such as the very entertaining film The Omega Code, where Michael York, a great British actor whose performance as Sir Basil Exposition in the Austin Powers films is widely known, but whose performance as the titular character in the 1976 dystopian film Logan’s Run, and whose subsequent performance of St. John the Baptist the following year in Jesus of Nazareth I particularly enjoyed, does a genuinely creepy, villainous antichrist with shades of certain former British prime ministers, and also in the Left Behind books and films, which I have to confess I find contrived and also containing an illiterate slur against Romanian Christians with the antichrist character being a Romanian, Nicolae Carpathia*(not even a real Romanian name); extremely offensive because the Romanian Orthodox Church endured particularly horrible persecution during the Communist regime under the Securitate. Actually, the specific eschatology of Left Behind originated with John Nelson Darby, a 19th century minister in a Calvinistic denomination in the UK, the Plymouth Brethren. Lutherans, and many Anglicans, Moravians and Methodists, for example, consider themselves Evangelical, and do not adhere to that doctrine. Additionally, the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved is not universally held by Evangelicals.

I realize in the situation of your personal tragedy, where the doctrine of one denomination of Christianity is preventing you from marrying a member of that denomination, the diversity of Evangelical beliefs is of secondary consideration, but perhaps considering this diversity might be edifying and something to reflect on. It is lamentable that while, in general, most Christians will wed other Christians or even people of other religions, seeking their conversion, in some cases, even when one Christian attempts to join another denomination in order to make a relationship work, they are still ultimately spurned.

*Carpathians are a completely different ethnicity from Romanians (Carpathians are Slavic, whereas Romanians and Romanian sub-ethnicies such as Moldavians, Bessarabians, Transylvanians, Wallachians and Aromanians are not slavic a different ethnic group, influenced by Slavs and to a lesser extent, Hungarians, but largely of Roman and Hellenic ancestry). Carpathians are also known as Rusyns, Carpatho-Rusyns, Ruthenians and who encompass an ethnic subgroup in Poland, the Lemkos (including Andy Warhol), and are mostly members of the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church, the Polish Orthodox Church, the Belarussian Orthodox Church, and the Orthodox Church

anoymous51 said:

I know somebody personally who is a Seventh Day Adventist who was dating a girl from a non Denominational background.

They had an on again off again relationship.

His parents were not very pleased about the relationship because they are very old school traditional SDAs. From sundown Friday to sundown Saturday; they observe the Sabbath very much like orthodox Jews, believe in the prophetical status of Ellen G White, and practice veganism.

Even though the girl has said that she converted SDA, he still broke up with her because it did not seem that she was serious enough about the faith.

He and his parents have been trying to get me to convert to SDA; but, its more than just about observing the Sabbath(Friday/Saturday) instead of the first day of the week(Sunday).

If it were just only about the day of worship, there would really be no problem.

After all, there are Seventh Day Baptist and Messianic Jews.

Click to expand...

Welcome to CF, I am an SDA and would be so happy to answer any questions if you have some? Your also welcome to PM me anytime if it may be helpful.

anoymous51 said:

SDAs of course believe in personal salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ; but, there are some deep theological differences on some major issues:

1. First and foremost, SDAs believe in keeping Seventh Day Sabbath. Evangelicals keep Sunday(the first day of the week).

Click to expand...

Yes Sunday worship as a replacement of God's 4th commandment of God's 10 commandments is a man-made teaching and tradition that is not supported by the scriptures. God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the scriptures (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Happy to more detail from the scriptures if your interested?

anoymous51 said:

2. SDAs believe in soul sleep or unconsciousness after death. Evangelicals believe in consciousness after death or the immortality of the soul.

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Well not quite. "Soul sleep" is not the same as the dead sleeping in the ground until the second coming we do not believe in "Soul sleep". If your interested you can see more about what we believe from the scriptures in this thread here linked.

anoymous51 said:

3. SDAs adhere to the doctrine of annihilation (which I hope they are right about) Matt 7:13-14. Evangelicals believe in an everlasting burning hell.

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Correct. Scripture support in this thread here linked.

anoymous51 said:

4. SDA follow the Old Testament dietary laws which prohibits eating pork and other split hoof animals. Evangelicals do not.

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Yes we believe God knows what is best for us being our creator. Even published science supports this in our days. I am happy to discuss this from the scriptures in detail.

anoymous51 said:

5. SDAs are never completely sure of their salvation (due to the investigative Judgement) and believe you can loose it. Evangelicals are very sure of salvation.

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Incorrect, SDA's are sure of our salvation as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says! We believe however that our salvation is conditional on believing and following what God's Word says and that at anytime we can choose to depart the faith and return to unbelief and known unrepentant sin. There is no such thing according to the scriptures as once saved always saved. Gods' salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says. Scripture support here linked.

anoymous51 said:

6. SDAs believe in the prima scriptura prophetic status of Ellen G White. The Great Controversy is a like a second Bible. Of course, Evangelicals do not.

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Not sure who told you this but this is not true at all! EGW only pointed all to the bible and the bible alone. Do you think God can have prophets in the Church and spiritual gifts?

anoymous51 said:

7. SDAs believe in the heavenly sanctuary. I don't think Evangelicals do.

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Read Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-29 and Hebrews 10:1-22.

anoymous51 said:

On issues of prophecy, both Seventh Day Adventist Sunday Evangelicals believe that the anti-Christ will come from Rome. However, they differ in their interpretation of who it will be. The SDA believes that the Roman Catholic Church or the Papacy is the anti Christ system. The mark of the beast will be enforced Sunday worship someday. Most Christians believe the anti-Christ will be a single person from Western Europe(The revived Roman Empire) or a future UN secretary general under a New World Order. A minority view is that the anti-Christ will come from the Middle East. The mark of the beast will be a microchip or a mark on the forehead. SDAs do not believe in the rapture whereas most Evangelicals do.

SDAs and Evangelicals both believe in the millennium kingdom; but the former believes it is going to be in heaven and the latter thinks it going to be on earth.

The Investigative Judgement is a little to complicated for me to understand.

I have heard of people who were formerly Sunday worshippers converting to Seventh Day Adventism, but it would really take some deep theological reconditioning on many beliefs.

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More scriptures provided here linked (simplified). Though happy to discuss any of the above in more detail. For me I was never brought up SDA. If you want to read my testimony you can read it here linked.

Anyhow nice to meet you. Feel free to PM or chat to me anytime. I am not doing to tell you anything accept that we can only find the truth of God's Word as we ask Jesus to be our guide and teacher and seek him to know His Word for ourselves. This is the place we need to seek and find the truth of God's Word. We will not find it from the teachings and traditions of men or the word of website.

God bless dear friend! May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

anoymous51 said:

I know somebody personally who is a Seventh Day Adventist who was dating a girl from a non Denominational background.

They had an on again off again relationship.

His parents were not very pleased about the relationship because they are very old school traditional SDAs. From sundown Friday to sundown Saturday; they observe the Sabbath very much like orthodox Jews, believe in the prophetical status of Ellen G White, and practice veganism.

Even though the girl has said that she converted SDA, he still broke up with her because it did not seem that she was serious enough about the faith.

He and his parents have been trying to get me to convert to SDA; but, its more than just about observing the Sabbath(Friday/Saturday) instead of the first day of the week(Sunday).

If it were just only about the day of worship, there would really be no problem.

After all, there are Seventh Day Baptist and Messianic Jews.

SDAs of course believe in personal salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ; but, there are some deep theological differences on some major issues:

First and foremost, SDAs believe in keeping Seventh Day Sabbath. Evangelicals keep Sunday (the first day of the week).

2. SDAs believe in soul sleep or unconsciousness after death. Evangelicals believe in consciousness after death or the immortality of the soul.

3. SDAs adhere to the doctrine of annihilation (which I hope they are right about) Matt 7:13-14. Evangelicals believe in an everlasting burning hell.

4. SDA follow the Old Testament dietary laws which prohibits eating pork and other split hoof animals. Evangelicals do not.

5. SDAs are never completely sure of their salvation (due to the investigative Judgement) and believe you can loose it. Evangelicals are very sure of salvation.

6. SDAs believe in the prima scriptura prophetic status of Ellen G White. The Great Controversy is a like a second Bible. Of course, Evangelicals do not.

7. SDAs believe in the heavenly sanctuary. I don't think Evangelicals do.

On issues of prophecy, both Seventh Day Adventist Sunday Evangelicals believe that the anti-Christ will come from Rome. However, they differ in their interpretation of who it will be. The SDA believes that the Roman Catholic Church or the Papacy is the anti Christ system. The mark of the beast will be enforced Sunday worship someday. Most Christians believe the anti-Christ will be a single person from Western Europe (The revived Roman Empire) or a future UN secretary general under a New World Order. A minority view is that the anti-Christ will come from the Middle East. The mark of the beast will be a microchip or a mark on the forehead. SDAs do not believe in the rapture whereas most Evangelicals do.

SDAs and Evangelicals both believe in the millennium kingdom; but the former believes it is going to be in heaven and the latter thinks it going to be on earth.

The Investigative Judgement is a little to complicated for me to understand.

I have heard of people who were formerly Sunday worshippers converting to Seventh Day Adventism, but it would really take some deep theological reconditioning on many beliefs.

Click to expand...

There certainly are some deep theological differences on some major issues between Evangelicals and SDA's which makes them incompatible.

The Bible does not teach an investigative judgment or that near the end of time the "mark of the best" will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Investigative Judgment
Mark of the Beast

anoymous51 said:

Even though the girl has said that she converted SDA, he still broke up with her because it did not seem that she was serious enough about the faith.

Click to expand...

People who are new to any faith never seem serious enough to people who have been in it for a long time.

Also, based on a previous discussion thread, SDA beliefs include a sentence from Ellen White that states that sabbath observance is necessary for salvation. See below.
What Ellen G. White Says About Sabbath Observance

Danthemailman said:

There certainly are some deep theological differences on some major issues between Evangelicals and SDA's which makes them incompatible.

The Bible does not teach an investigative judgment or that near the end of time the "mark of the best" will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Investigative Judgment
Mark of the Beast

Click to expand...

This post content is a good example of word of website over the word of God and could not be further from the truth. If you want to find the truth of God's Word the only place you will find it is seeking for it through Jesus and His Word and not through the teachings and traditions of men that have led many to break the commandments of God.

Michael Collum said:

People who are new to any faith never seem serious enough to people who have been in it for a long time.

Also, based on a previous discussion thread, SDA beliefs include a sentence from Ellen White that states that sabbath observance is necessary for salvation. See below.
What Ellen G. White Says About Sabbath Observance

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According to the scriptures sin is the transgression of God's Law *1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. According to the scriptures God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. So tell me, if someone is living in a life of known unrepentant sin are they in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31? Of course in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men every where to believe and follow what Gods' Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. According to the scriptures, Gods' people are in every Church * John 10:16 living up to all the light that God has revealed to them, but according to Jesus the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. According to the scriptures Babylon has fallen *Revelation 14:7-12 the Christian Church's of the world have fallen away from the Word of God. God is calling His people where ever they might be out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-5. God's sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. According to Jesus those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27.

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord said:

According to the scriptures sin is the transgression of God's Law *1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. According to the scriptures God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. So tell me, if someone is living in a life of known unrepentant sin are they in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31? Of course in times of ignorance when we do not know any better God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men every where to believe and follow what Gods' Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. According to the scriptures, Gods' people are in every Church * John 10:16 living up to all the light that God has revealed to them, but according to Jesus the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. According to the scriptures Babylon has fallen *Revelation 14:7-12 the Christian Church's of the world have fallen away from the Word of God. God is calling His people where ever they might be out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-5. God's sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. According to Jesus those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27.

Take Care.

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It still remains that the SDA teaches that you need to observe the sabbath in order to be saved.

Michael Collum said:

It still remains that the SDA teaches that you need to observe the sabbath in order to be saved.

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According to the scriptures we need to believe and follow all of Gods' Word to be saved. Salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says. For example, can we live a life of known unrepentant sin committing adultery and be saved? What about lying, stealing or committing murder? What about if we make idols and bow down to worship them or take other God's and remain unrepentant? Now what makes you think that Gods' 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) which is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4 is any different to any of the other 10 commandments? Is one saved if they live in known unrepentant sin when God has given them a knowledge of the truth of His Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31?

LoveGodsWord said:

Yes Sunday worship as a replacement of God's 4th commandment of God's 10 commandments is a man-made teaching and tradition that is not supported by the scriptures.

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You say that, but thus far, no one has produced any scripture that precludes worshipping on a Sunday, or that discredits those churches which view the Sabbath as having moved.

For my part, as I have explained, I regard the Sabbath as one of the three days of the Paschal Triduum, and one of four days which we should remember every week, along with Wednesday, when Christians fast in memory of the betrayal of our Lord by Judas. On Friday, we fast because on that day, God created Man in His Image, and God then recreated Man in His Image on the Cross, restoring us by ransoming us for our sins through His death, and in the process, showing us what it means to be human, as Fr. John Behr likes to say. On Saturday, God rested after creation, and the Sabbath was a memorial of that rest, but it was also a prophecy of the Holy Saturday in 33 AD when God rested in a tomb, after having sacrificed Himself for our salvation. And on Sunday, “Let there be light”, as Up From the Grave He Arose, trampling down death by death, and everywhere bestowing life, emptying Hades and ensuring our own Resurrection. Therefore, I believe, based on the New Testament, that the correct observance of the Sabbath is as a memorial of God’s repose, and also, it is a good day for worship, but the primary Eucharistic liturgy should be on Sunday, every Sunday (although a daily or at least twice weekly celebration of the Eucharist is preferrable; indeed, the Eucharist should be celebrated as much as possible, except, not at the expense of the Divine Office; I am frustrated, as are many Roman Catholic liturgists, by the typical parish having a proliferation of Sunday masses and weekday masses, but no Vespers or Matins or other services from the Breviary or the Liturgy of the Hours; the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Catholics, and the Assyrians, with the exception of the Armenian church, do a much better job with the Divine Office. This was also, until recently, true of the Anglican Communion, but now, unfortunately, Mattins, Evensong and especially the Litany have become rarities in typical parishes, with a few exceptions. In London, the Church of England has kept things going in the parish churches as well as the Big Three (St. Paul’s, Westminster Abbey, and Southwark Cathedral), and Episcopal cathedrals in the US usually have a good cycle of services, and the US has two Anglican churches with music programs comparable to those in the UK, namely the National Cathedral in Washington DC and St. Thomas 5th Ave. in NYC.

Fasting on Wednesday and Friday, with the Anglican Litany being attended in church on those days, and Holy Communion on Sunday, was the minimum recommended worship pattern by John Wesley.

Lastly, it should be stressed, as St. Paul and Martin Luther made a point of stressing, that we are no longer under the law.

LoveGodsWord said:

According to the scriptures we need to believe and follow all of Gods' Word to be saved.

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According to Scriptures, the Word of God is Jesus Christ, firstly, and secondly, we are no longer under the law, according to St. Paul, and it is important we not keep to the Old Mosaic Law, because if we adhere to any part of the Old Law, we are bound to keep the entire Law. The Mosaic Law was specific to the Jews; in Christ Jesus, there is neither Greek nor Jew.

This is where I have finally realized the importance, within Western Christianity, which suffers from a Roman forensic obsession with sin, of Martin Luther’s stress on the Law and Gospel. This had at one time struck me as a false dichotomy, but now I see it as a pathway to the correct Eastern Christian understanding of sin as a disease that Christ has come to heal (the word Salvation is directly related to Salve, as in, a healing ointment).

To be saved, a Christian must believe in our Lord, pursue baptism as a catechumen* if not already legitimately baptized, confess their sins and make every effort to repent, and having confessed and received absolution, either generally as in the Anglican Divine Office and Holy Communion service, or via auricular confession to a pastor, which can be really helpful, and which is offered in all traditional Protestant churches, as well as Orthodox and Catholic churches, and which in any decent church and any truly free country, is completely confidential, one should partake of the Eucharist (Holy Communion). The cycle of confession and the Eucharist, as frequently as possible, conveys great sacramental grace via the Holy Spirit, which is why our Lord commands that we partake of Him via Holy Communion. Note that this is not works righteousness, in that these are not works, but rather the means of grace ordained by God for our benefit, just as animal sacrifices, drink offerings and the shewbread were ordained by the same God as a means of grace for the Jews, which was a typological prophecy of the sacrifice of our Lord on the Cross and our reception of that sacrifice through the consecrated bread and wine, which are His body and blood, in Holy Communion, in which we recapitulate the Last Supper and are united with the entire church (see 1 Corinthians 10-11, John 6).

However, as St. James warns in his epistle, faith without works is dead. What are the works that indicate a living, healthy faith? Loving God above everything else, and loving our neighbor as we love ourself. Of course, we are so depraved we cannot even do that properly, which is why we must confess, repent, and partake of the Eucharist, but if we keep doing that, over time, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, we can improve. John Wesley explained this concept, known in Eastern theology as Theosis, as Entire Sanctification. We cooperate with the Holy Spirit working inside us to do a better job loving our neighbor, and as we do that more and more, and as we learn to pray more and more, because Christ our Lord, God and Savior directed us to pray without ceasing, we will slowly begin to overcome the passions that cause us to sin and fall short of the glory of God. We can get better, but only if we do this, remembering always the Holy Cross, and what Christ our God did for us on the Cross. What I have described, I believe Lutherans would call the Via Crucis (@ViaCrucis and @MarkRohfrietsch might confirm this).

The Cross is so central to our salvation, that it is imperative that we remember it in our prayers and our worship. A cross or crucifix should be centrally placed and clearly visible on the altar of every Christian church, and historically, Christian churches have been built in the shape of crosses. I am always troubled when I see a place of worship that lacks a cross.

anoymous51 said:

I know somebody personally who is a Seventh Day Adventist who was dating a girl from a non Denominational background.

They had an on again off again relationship.

His parents were not very pleased about the relationship because they are very old school traditional SDAs. From sundown Friday to sundown Saturday; they observe the Sabbath very much like orthodox Jews, believe in the prophetical status of Ellen G White, and practice veganism.

Even though the girl has said that she converted SDA, he still broke up with her because it did not seem that she was serious enough about the faith.

He and his parents have been trying to get me to convert to SDA; but, its more than just about observing the Sabbath(Friday/Saturday) instead of the first day of the week(Sunday).

If it were just only about the day of worship, there would really be no problem.

After all, there are Seventh Day Baptist and Messianic Jews.

SDAs of course believe in personal salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ; but, there are some deep theological differences on some major issues:



First and foremost, SDAs believe in keeping Seventh Day Sabbath. Evangelicals keep Sunday(the first day of the week).

2. SDAs believe in soul sleep or unconsciousness after death. Evangelicals believe in consciousness after death or the immortality of the soul.

3. SDAs adhere to the doctrine of annihilation (which I hope they are right about) Matt 7:13-14. Evangelicals believe in an everlasting burning hell.

4. SDA follow the Old Testament dietary laws which prohibits eating pork and other split hoof animals. Evangelicals do not.

5. SDAs are never completely sure of their salvation (due to the investigative Judgement) and believe you can loose it. Evangelicals are very sure of salvation.

6. SDAs believe in the prima scriptura prophetic status of Ellen G White. The Great Controversy is a like a second Bible. Of course, Evangelicals do not.

7. SDAs believe in the heavenly sanctuary. I don't think Evangelicals do.

On issues of prophecy, both Seventh Day Adventist Sunday Evangelicals believe that the anti-Christ will come from Rome. However, they differ in their interpretation of who it will be. The SDA believes that the Roman Catholic Church or the Papacy is the anti Christ system. The mark of the beast will be enforced Sunday worship someday. Most Christians believe the anti-Christ will be a single person from Western Europe(The revived Roman Empire) or a future UN secretary general under a New World Order. A minority view is that the anti-Christ will come from the Middle East. The mark of the beast will be a microchip or a mark on the forehead. SDAs do not believe in the rapture whereas most Evangelicals do.

SDAs and Evangelicals both believe in the millennium kingdom; but the former believes it is going to be in heaven and the latter thinks it going to be on earth.

The Investigative Judgement is a little to complicated for me to understand.

I have heard of people who were formerly Sunday worshippers converting to Seventh Day Adventism, but it would really take some deep theological reconditioning on many beliefs.

Click to expand...

Welcome to CF! Just to let you know there is also a forum dedicated to Seventh day Adventist found here Traditional Adventists | Christian Forums. In this forum you can safely talk about the SDA church and will find a lot of Adventist members who would be willing to converse with you on the Adventist beliefs. There are a lot of misconceptions about the Adventists church which is one of the few churches left that still believe and teach about God's Ten Commandments that God personally wrote.

God bless!

Michael Collum said:

It still remains that the SDA teaches that you need to observe the sabbath in order to be saved.

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Indeed, and this is erroneous, because it appears to deny the authority given to the Apostles and their successors to bind and loose sins, it calls into question the means of grace, it is a distraction from the centrality of the cross, and it also ignores the sovereignty of the Church and the guidance of the Church by the Holy Spirit. If the Church Catholic, by which I mean the Early Church when Christians were united in a group of regional churches in communion with each other, and at present, all Nicene Christians everywhere (basically, anyone defined as a Christian according to the CF.com Statement of Faith, which is pretty good), defines Sunday as the Sabbath, which is debatable, and irrelevant, such a decision is within its purview, for the Church Catholic is guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it. And to the extent that anyone fails to perfectly observe the Sabbath, which everyone will fail to do to varying extents, even after years of prayer and devotion, the Church has been delegated the power by Christ our God to pronounce absolution, for those sins the Apostles and their successors forgive on Earth, are forgiven in Heaven, and only those which they retain will be retained in Heaven.

SabbathBlessings said:

This post if off topic to the OP and is not about Saturday Sabbath found in the scriptures as the holy day of the Lord thy God. Exodus 20:10, Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 58:13 The OP is not asking to debate Saturday Sabbath found in scriptures to Sunday worship not found in scriptures. We should probably not make this a big debate here when it is not in OP, which is why I suggested to the OP to discuss in the SDA forum so this thread won't become another debate on tradition vs the Word of God. God bless

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On the contrary, the OP is directly talking about their willingness to try to embrace Adventism, their concerns about the doctrines of the SDA, and how they were rejected anyway. And I did not introduce the doctrine of the Sabbath and its validity into this discussion, and indeed avoided it in my reply, which was the first reply, rather, @LoveGodsWord did so in the second reply to the thread, by declaring that observing the Sabbath is necessary for Salvation. Edit: I got confused here; @LoveGodsWord criticized Sunday as the Sabbath as a false tradition of men, in the second reply, and subsequently posted a reply in which I felt it was strongly implied that Sabbath observance was required for salvation. On both points I disagree. Thank you @SabbathBlessings for alerting me as to this accidental misquote on my part, for which I do apologize.

This thread was not posted in Christian Advice, where debate is forbidden, but in Denomination Specific Theology, which exists to facilitate debates about the doctrines of different denominations. If this thread is moved there, or if the OP wishes to have a discussion there, or in the Adventist forum, then obviously that is a different matter and I will respect the SOPs of those forums.

The Liturgist said:

On the contrary, the OP is directly talking about their willingness to try to embrace Adventism, their concerns about the doctrines of the SDA, and how they were rejected anyway. And I did not introduce the doctrine of the Sabbath and its validity into this discussion, and indeed avoided it in my reply, which was the first reply, rather, @LoveGodsWord did so in the second reply to the thread, by declaring that observing the Sabbath is necessary for Salvation. I disagree.

This thread was not posted in Christian Advice, where debate is forbidden, but in Denomination Specific Theology, which exists to facilitate debates about the doctrines of different denominations. If this thread is moved there, or if the OP wishes to have a discussion there, or in the Adventist forum, then obviously that is a different matter and I will respect the SOPs of those forums.

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No, the OP has said nothing about the Sabbath not being on the seventh day that is not part of the questions that was asked. The OP has 7 questions and none of them were about the Seventh day Sabbath that is found in scripture vs Sunday keeping which is not. We really should stay on topic. You also misquoted @LoveGodsWord

LoveGodsWord said:

According to the scriptures we need to believe and follow all of Gods' Word to be saved.

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According to the scriptures, you need to trust in Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Spirit to be saved.

The Liturgist said:

Indeed, and this is erroneous, because it appears to deny the authority given to the Apostles and their successors to bind and loose sins, it calls into question the means of grace, it is a distraction from the centrality of the cross, and it also ignores the sovereignty of the Church and the guidance of the Church by the Holy Spirit. If the Church Catholic, by which I mean the Early Church when Christians were united in a group of regional churches in communion with each other, and at present, all Nicene Christians everywhere (basically, anyone defined as a Christian according to the CF.com Statement of Faith, which is pretty good), defines Sunday as the Sabbath, which is debatable, and irrelevant, such a decision is within its purview, for the Church Catholic is guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it. And to the extent that anyone fails to perfectly observe the Sabbath, which everyone will fail to do to varying extents, even after years of prayer and devotion, the Church has been delegated the power by Christ our God to pronounce absolution, for those sins the Apostles and their successors forgive on Earth, are forgiven in Heaven, and only those which they retain will be retained in Heaven.

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I used to assist in ministry on sundays, and was generally tired afterwards.

It seems to be a contradiction putting a day of "service" on a day of rest.

SabbathBlessings said:

What does this have to with the the 7 questions of the original OP? This is for a discussion on another thread. You definitely do not understand the Adventist view here and this is not the place to discuss.

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Not so, the original post had 7 specific questions, but also a general question about what SDAs believed since some people were trying to convert him to it.

Michael Collum said:

According to the scriptures, you need to trust in Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Spirit to be saved.

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Amen! (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 1:13; 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

The Liturgist said:

You say that, but thus far, no one has produced any scripture that precludes worshipping on a Sunday, or that discredits those churches which view the Sabbath as having moved.

For my part, as I have explained, I regard the Sabbath as one of the three days of the Paschal Triduum, and one of four days which we should remember every week, along with Wednesday, when Christians fast in memory of the betrayal of our Lord by Judas. On Friday, we fast because on that day, God created Man in His Image, and God then recreated Man in His Image on the Cross, restoring us by ransoming us for our sins through His death, and in the process, showing us what it means to be human, as Fr. John Behr likes to say. On Saturday, God rested after creation, and the Sabbath was a memorial of that rest, but it was also a prophecy of the Holy Saturday in 33 AD when God rested in a tomb, after having sacrificed Himself for our salvation. And on Sunday, “Let there be light”, as Up From the Grave He Arose, trampling down death by death, and everywhere bestowing life, emptying Hades and ensuring our own Resurrection. Therefore, I believe, based on the New Testament, that the correct observance of the Sabbath is as a memorial of God’s repose, and also, it is a good day for worship, but the primary Eucharistic liturgy should be on Sunday, every Sunday (although a daily or at least twice weekly celebration of the Eucharist is preferrable; indeed, the Eucharist should be celebrated as much as possible, except, not at the expense of the Divine Office; I am frustrated, as are many Roman Catholic liturgists, by the typical parish having a proliferation of Sunday masses and weekday masses, but no Vespers or Matins or other services from the Breviary or the Liturgy of the Hours; the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Catholics, and the Assyrians, with the exception of the Armenian church, do a much better job with the Divine Office. This was also, until recently, true of the Anglican Communion, but now, unfortunately, Mattins, Evensong and especially the Litany have become rarities in typical parishes, with a few exceptions. In London, the Church of England has kept things going in the parish churches as well as the Big Three (St. Paul’s, Westminster Abbey, and Southwark Cathedral), and Episcopal cathedrals in the US usually have a good cycle of services, and the US has two Anglican churches with music programs comparable to those in the UK, namely the National Cathedral in Washington DC and St. Thomas 5th Ave. in NYC.

Fasting on Wednesday and Friday, with the Anglican Litany being attended in church on those days, and Holy Communion on Sunday, was the minimum recommended worship pattern by John Wesley.

Lastly, it should be stressed, as St. Paul and Martin Luther made a point of stressing, that we are no longer under the law.

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As posted earlier there is not one scripture in all of the bible telling us that God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus warns us in His own words that if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:2-9. Of course if we are not worshiping God by following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us to break the commandments of God it begs the question who are we worshiping; God or man? According to the scriptures, no one us "under the law" unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law according to Paul in Romans 3:19-20 because all the law does is give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

Take Care.