For The Orthodox Faithful Who Are Confused About Covid Vaccines: Orthodox Talks

On all these claims and counterclaims on what the truth and science is, there is one thing I am sure of - this thing was in fact artificially engineered, however we choose to react to it. That is the whole idea of "gain-of-function"; to make a thing possible by human effort that wasn't previously possible in nature; in this case, by enabling a virus to spread to humans that nature had previously protected us from. Setting aside the appropriateness of a Nuremburg-2 set of trials to convict and hang those guilty (and I do set it aside, however unwillingly), I have to quote - guess who? - in my favorite quote for scientists (and I work at an institute teaching English to such creatures):
"We have learned to do a great many things. The next great task is to learn not to do them."

Dorothea said:

I think he knows what it means. He's a doctor.

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I know lots of them that do not know anything regarding immunology.

rusmeister said:

On all these claims and counterclaims on what the truth and science is, there is one thing I am sure of - this thing was in fact artificially engineered, however we choose to react to it. That is the whole idea of "gain-of-function"; to make a thing possible by human effort that wasn't previously possible in nature; in this case, by enabling a virus to spread to humans that nature had previously protected us from. Setting aside the appropriateness of a Nuremburg-2 set of trials to convict and hang those guilty (and I do set it aside, however unwillingly), I have to quote - guess who? - in my favorite quote for scientists (and I work at an institute teaching English to such creatures):
"We have learned to do a great many things. The next great task is to learn not to do them."

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With great power comes great responsibility

truefiction1 said:

It makes no difference, because those cell lines are not to be used for any purpose leading to the production of anything to be consumed for worldly benefit.

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Then I assume you take no medicines ever. Tylenol? Antacids? Certain cold and flu meds? Zoloft? Many others...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Then I assume you take no medicines ever. Tylenol? Antacids? Certain cold and flu meds? Zoloft? Many others...

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Most of my medicines that give me quality of life had testing with that…Epilepsy medicine (only one worked with many trials of other medicines - I don’t have other options), my emergency asthma inhaler (albuterol is the one option), and others which I won’t go into. I’m thankful that I am allowed to take them…

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

With great power comes great responsibility

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Anyone who thinks that Fallen humans will not abuse that responsibility is truly naive.
At any rate, “responsibility” means answering, in the final instance to God, but where it can be done, to man as well. That is the meaning of the Nuremberg trials. And here, answering for the creation of a virus not found in nature that enabled the extremely wealthy people who helped arrange it, planned “Event 201” and so on, is something that we very much want to see an answer that administers justice, and puts an end to this mad grab for power over all.
I think it would be worth knocking us back to the Bronze Age if it would end this insane ability to literally rule the world. And this engineered pandemic is the central device in that power grab. Thus, I reject the government measures and say that we should let come what may from viruses as preferable to the alternative, the enslavement of humanity by technology and government tyranny.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Then I assume you take no medicines ever. Tylenol? Antacids? Certain cold and flu meds? Zoloft? Many others...

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If they were produced in the same manner as Pfizer or Moderna Covid-19 vaccines and I know of it then no, I don't use them. Besides, the basis for this (your) argument itself was created over time, through the workings of the mystery of lawlessness, to be used in the promotion of Covid-19 vaccine use within the Church. In other words, we have been slowly acclimated by our routine and unquestioning use of such medications so that we will blindly accept this outright evil that we would never go along with if we knew what we were doing. The lack of spiritual life and discernment in everyone and everywhere is staggering. That is why only the elect of God will not be deceived to receive the mark. They are protected by the Holy Spirit.

truefiction1 said:

If they were produced in the same manner as Pfizer or Moderna Covid-19 vaccines and I know of it then no, I don't use them. Besides, the basis for this (your) argument itself was created over time, through the workings of the mystery of lawlessness, to be used in the promotion of Covid-19 vaccine use within the Church. In other words, we have been slowly acclimated by our routine and unquestioning use of such medications so that we will blindly accept this outright evil that we would never go along with if we knew what we were doing. The lack of spiritual life and discernment in everyone and everywhere is staggering. That is why only the elect of God will not be deceived to receive the mark. They are protected by the Holy Spirit.

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Are you suggesting that we are not truly Orthodox and will not be saved if we have taken medications and / or the vaccine after getting a go ahead from our priests and hierarchs?

*Lives in the Age of Information.*

"Ignorance is bliss"

#ConsoomProduct

I've heard this from some scientists and doctors outside the MSM-approved group of scientists and doctors. It's been a warning for some time now throughout this pandemic. I just saw this article on twitter today shared by a woman doctor. Antoni, what do you make of it?

excerpt:

A comparison of official Government reports suggest the Fully Vaccinated are developing Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome
BY THE EXPOSÉ ON OCTOBER 10, 2021 • ( 30 COMMENTS )

Latest UK PHE Vaccine Surveillance Report figures on Covid cases show that doubly vaccinated 40-70 year olds have lost 40% of their immune system capability compared to unvaccinated people. Their immune systems are deteriorating at around 5% per week (between 2.7% and 8.7%). If this continues then 30-50 year olds will have 100% immune system degradation, zero viral defence by Christmas and all doubly vaccinated people over 30 will have lost their immune systems by March next year.


https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/10/comparison-reports-proves-vaccinated-developing-ade/

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

I know lots of them that do not know anything regarding immunology.

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What are your qualifications to make that judgement?

Dorothea said:

I've heard this from some scientists and doctors outside the MSM-approved group of scientists and doctors. It's been a warning for some time now throughout this pandemic. I just saw this article on twitter today shared by a woman doctor. Antoni, what do you make of it?

excerpt:

A comparison of official Government reports suggest the Fully Vaccinated are developing Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome
BY THE EXPOSÉ ON OCTOBER 10, 2021 • ( 30 COMMENTS )

Latest UK PHE Vaccine Surveillance Report figures on Covid cases show that doubly vaccinated 40-70 year olds have lost 40% of their immune system capability compared to unvaccinated people. Their immune systems are deteriorating at around 5% per week (between 2.7% and 8.7%). If this continues then 30-50 year olds will have 100% immune system degradation, zero viral defence by Christmas and all doubly vaccinated people over 30 will have lost their immune systems by March next year.


https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/10/comparison-reports-proves-vaccinated-developing-ade/

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I have heard similar concerns and predictions which I pray are inaccurate. It is one of those things that are “time will tell”. I think that recent studies which show that the spike proteins seem to dissipate after a few weeks are encouraging, because if they were persistently present for longer periods, and the cells continued their production, the consequences would be devastating and we probably would have already seen that by now with much greater ominous statistical data. I am growing to agree with those who say that it is going to be the boosters which may tip the scales.

However, I do have issue with the report you posted. I’m not sure they can calculate “immune system degradation” just by the simple fact that double vaccinated people are getting Covid at a higher rate than the 40+ year olds who were not vaccinated. There are too many other variables to consider. It is a correlation which needs to be monitored but I don’t think it can be positively affirmed that it means that their is some type of total and progressively worsening immune system degradation. Again, it could mean that, but more data needs to come in. The fact that the vaccinated seem to be getting certain conditions such as Bell’s palsy, herpes zoster, etc most certainly demonstrates that after the jab, they are immune deficient for a while, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is a progressively worsening state of deficiency which worsens as time goes on. Time, and more data, will tell.

Antoni said:

I have heard similar concerns and predictions which I pray are inaccurate. It is one of those things that are “time will tell”. I think that recent studies which show that the spike proteins seem to dissipate after a few weeks are encouraging, because if they were persistently present for longer periods, and the cells continued their production, the consequences would be devastating and we probably would have already seen that by now with much greater ominous statistical data. I am growing to agree with those who say that it is going to be the boosters which may tip the scales.

However, I do have issue with the report you posted. I’m not sure they can calculate “immune system degradation” just by the simple fact that double vaccinated people are getting Covid at a higher rate than the 40+ year olds who were not vaccinated. There are too many other variables to consider. It is a correlation which needs to be monitored but I don’t think it can be positively affirmed that it means that their is some type of total and progressively worsening immune system degradation. Again, it could mean that, but more data needs to come in. The fact that the vaccinated seem to be getting certain conditions such as Bell’s palsy, herpes zoster, etc most certainly demonstrates that after the jab, they are immune deficient for a while, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is a progressively worsening state of deficiency which worsens as time goes on. Time, and more data, will tell.

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Thanks so much for your explanation. I appreciate your informative response.

Antoni said:

I have heard similar concerns and predictions which I pray are inaccurate. It is one of those things that are “time will tell”. I think that recent studies which show that the spike proteins seem to dissipate after a few weeks are encouraging, because if they were persistently present for longer periods, and the cells continued their production, the consequences would be devastating and we probably would have already seen that by now with much greater ominous statistical data. I am growing to agree with those who say that it is going to be the boosters which may tip the scales.

However, I do have issue with the report you posted. I’m not sure they can calculate “immune system degradation” just by the simple fact that double vaccinated people are getting Covid at a higher rate than the 40+ year olds who were not vaccinated. There are too many other variables to consider. It is a correlation which needs to be monitored but I don’t think it can be positively affirmed that it means that their is some type of total and progressively worsening immune system degradation. Again, it could mean that, but more data needs to come in. The fact that the vaccinated seem to be getting certain conditions such as Bell’s palsy, herpes zoster, etc most certainly demonstrates that after the jab, they are immune deficient for a while, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is a progressively worsening state of deficiency which worsens as time goes on. Time, and more data, will tell.

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Have you seen the tests Dr Nathan Thompson of Exemplify Health Center did on one of his patients who recently got 'vaccinated'? After the 2nd jab his immune system basically took a dive.
Dr. Nathan Thompson - Exemplify Health Center - After the second COVID shot, "His adaptive Immune system has absolutely tanked."

prodromos said:

Have you seen the tests Dr Nathan Thompson of Exemplify Health Center did on one of his patients who recently got 'vaccinated'? After the 2nd jab his immune system basically took a dive.
Dr. Nathan Thompson - Exemplify Health Center - After the second COVID shot, "His adaptive Immune system has absolutely tanked."

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I saw that on Ryan Cristian's show (The Last American Vagabond).

prodromos said:

Have you seen the tests Dr Nathan Thompson of Exemplify Health Center did on one of his patients who recently got 'vaccinated'? After the 2nd jab his immune system basically took a dive.
Dr. Nathan Thompson - Exemplify Health Center - After the second COVID shot, "His adaptive Immune system has absolutely tanked."

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yes, I saw that video but I am not on board with his conclusion. I do agree that the immune system takes a hit with the vaccine, which is obvious considering the increased incidence of certain disease in the short term after vaccination, and I have also seen similar lab results in those who were just vaccinated which would be consistent with the immune system being affected. However, I analyze CBC results from patients all the time who were vaccinated months earlier, and the tests generally appear normal. Now, I am not checking the in depth results he is checking with regards to cd8 and cd4 counts, but the percentile of neutrophils and lymphocytes are generally in the normal range for those I have seen months after vaccination. I am only giving anecdotal observations so doesn’t validate much, but I don’t think what I saw on that video makes the case for prolonged worsening immunodeficiency. Again, it may eventually be the case, but his report doesn’t validate such a theory. Only time will tell. Those who have had the shot and had no issues I optimistically think will be okay (and they should thank God they are okay, because many have suffered and died), but the truth is no one at this point knows and the idea for boosters to me seem like Russian roulette for the average healthy person.

All4Christ said:

Are you suggesting that we are not truly Orthodox and will not be saved if we have taken medications and / or the vaccine after getting a go ahead from our priests and hierarchs?

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Of course, TF can answer for himself on his own intent, but it seems obvious to me that any guilt we might deservedly have would have to be based on knowledge, on what we know. We know not what we do in so many things. If I were to learn that a medicine or product uses slain human body parts, I would stop using it. I wouldn’t consider myself to have been wicked or un-Orthodox for what I didn’t know, but I might feel like the children in Narnia (“The Silver Chair”) who learned that they had just been eating Talking Stag. We are born into a world we did not make, and have eaten foods and used things and even spoken as we were taught. In the course of our lives, if and when we learn that a practice has a bad base, we should, of course, adjust our lives as best we can to avoid participating in evil. That goes for the medicines we take, the foods we eat, the words we use. I used to say “have sex”, because that’s how everyone around me talked. I don’t anymore. I learned that it has an evil origin and purpose. We live in a Fallen world. All we can do is repent as best we can.

Latest list of products using HEK-293:
https://cogforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/fetalproductsall.pdf

rusmeister said:

Of course, TF can answer for himself on his own intent, but it seems obvious to me that any guilt we might deservedly have would have to be based on knowledge, on what we know. We know not what we do in so many things. If I were to learn that a medicine or product uses slain human body parts, I would stop using it. I wouldn’t consider myself to have been wicked or un-Orthodox for what I didn’t know, but I might feel like the children in Narnia (“The Silver Chair”) who learned that they had just been eating Talking Stag. We are born into a world we did not make, and have eaten foods and used things and even spoken as we were taught. In the course of our lives, if and when we learn that a practice has a bad base, we should, of course, adjust our lives as best we can to avoid participating in evil. That goes for the medicines we take, the foods we eat, the words we use. I used to say “have sex”, because that’s how everyone around me talked. I don’t anymore. I learned that it has an evil origin and purpose. We live in a Fallen world. All we can do is repent as best we can.

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Absolutely if it is used slain body parts, I would say the same. The question then would be whether it is necessary to repent for medicines that used the fetal cell lines in testing, not production. Obviously, that is not something I promote (using it in testing), but it is different than perpetuating it by using it in production (ie J&J). We certainly can agree to disagree…and I hope the comments you posted in the other thread remain true (liberty of conscious and not poisoning the Church).

My question remains to truefiction regarding those who disagree with taking the vaccines or others that used it in testing. It is a large group of Orthodox Christians condemned if that is the case. It’s fine if my question is ignored though.

I’m thankful for the medicines that we have available today, and will use them if the Church does not condemn them (and if they are not used in the production). I trust my priest and bishop to counsel us on that. They have proven themselves to be steadfast in Orthodox teachings, and I trust their guidance.

(ETA: Anyone who thinks consequences of not using modern medicine is mild does not have the same experience as many. You can’t always just stop using something easily unless you want to stop living a functional life. It isn’t always as simple as a decision to use Advil instead of Tylenol, or letting your stomach be upset instead of taking Tums.)

All4Christ said:

Are you suggesting that we are not truly Orthodox and will not be saved if we have taken medications and / or the vaccine after getting a go ahead from our priests and hierarchs?

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I'm going to tell you and everybody else what I know, in summary: Repent as if there is not tomorrow in this world, with every single tool and spiritual weapon available to Orthodox Christians. The days are extremely numbered and there are great troubles right around the corner. When Christ came the first time he taught that we need to be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees (Church hierarchs) or we shall by no means enter into the Kingdom of God. In the days immediately preceding His 2nd coming this will be especially true. Acquire the Holy Spirit, by carefully following the path as described in the writings of the Holy Saints, and don't let up on spiritual warfare for even a moment. If you do this then there will come a time when you'll see the world for what it is, because of the Light Who will come to dwell inside of your heart and mind.